Reason #1: the ever-changing church – Why I have converted to the Eastern Orthodox Church

ArmyMatt

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I keep hearing the claim the we worship our icons, this is an extreme falsity. The simplest question I can give you would be this who is in that icon? If you can answer that question that pretty much somes it up.

yeah you will hear that. however, if you want something that has helped me when dealing with this, is no offering or sacrifice is made to the icon. those are only made to God, which makes it not worship of an icon.
 
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Barney2.0

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Yes, imagery doesn't necessarily mean worship since we don't sacrifice lambs and goats to the icon of Jesus or bow down to it like for say how a Hindu bows down to a statue of Krishna or how a Bhuddist makes burn offering infront of the statue or icon of Bhudda or how a Muslim kisses the black stone there is a huge difference.
 
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archer75

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Yes, imagery doesn't necessarily mean worship since we don't sacrifice lambs and goats to the icon of Jesus or bow down to it like for say how a Hindu bows down to a statue of Krishna or how a Bhuddist makes burn offering infront of the statue or icon of Bhudda or how a Muslim kisses the black stone there is a huge difference.
The only further question to handle then might be why we light candles in front of them - could look like an offering.
 
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FenderTL5

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The only further question to handle then might be why we light candles in front of them - could look like an offering.
It makes the eyes flicker and look alive.
;)
 
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ArmyMatt

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The only further question to handle then might be why we light candles in front of them - could look like an offering.

that's where you stick to how we define worship, and not them.
 
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archer75

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that's where you stick to how we define worship, and not them.
The issue with Buddhism then is that (many) can reply: "this isn't a matter of worship, it shows respect for his teaching, Buddha was only a man and he died a long time ago."

That is it just seems helpful to avoid misconceptions and myths about other religions when banishing them about our own...otherwise we can end up looking very hypocritical, which doesn't represent Orthodoxy very well, imo.
 
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Barney2.0

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The issue with Buddhism then is that (many) can reply: "this isn't a matter of worship, it shows respect for his teaching, Buddha was only a man and he died a long time ago."

That is it just seems helpful to avoid misconceptions and myths about other religions when banishing them about our own...otherwise we can end up looking very hypocritical, which doesn't represent Orthodoxy very well, imo.

Despite popular notion many Bhuddists do actually get into worship of Bhudda either intentionally or unintentionally. When you start to offer sacrifices it not showing honor anymore it's worship.
 
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archer75

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Despite popular notion many Bhuddists do actually get into worship of Bhudda either intentionally or unintentionally. When you start to offer sacrifices it not showing honor anymore it's worship.
Well, no need to argue about it here...maybe some Orthodox get into worship unintentionally, right? My point is that showing the kind of attention to their explanations that you'd want shown to yours is not a bad idea.
 
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Barney2.0

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Sure there are many Orthodox and Catholic Christians which end up worshiping idols and icons of Mary and Jesus unintentionally that's the job of the Church to correct their mistakes. Yes it's not a bad idea and by the way how can I view the threads that I've posted.
 
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archer75

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Sure there are many Orthodox and Catholic Christians which end up worshiping idols and icons of Mary and Jesus unintentionally that's the job of the Church to correct their mistakes. Yes it's not a bad idea and by the way how can I view the threads that I've posted.
Look around inside your profile?
 
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ArmyMatt

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The issue with Buddhism then is that (many) can reply: "this isn't a matter of worship, it shows respect for his teaching, Buddha was only a man and he died a long time ago."

That is it just seems helpful to avoid misconceptions and myths about other religions when banishing them about our own...otherwise we can end up looking very hypocritical, which doesn't represent Orthodoxy very well, imo.

yep. this for us is not a matter of worship, since worship is centered at the Eucharist, which is only offered to God.
 
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~Anastasia~

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Sure there are many Orthodox and Catholic Christians which end up worshiping idols and icons of Mary and Jesus unintentionally that's the job of the Church to correct their mistakes. Yes it's not a bad idea and by the way how can I view the threads that I've posted.
Click profile page, then from there select the postings tab.

Go to the bottom of the posts and there should be an option to find all threads by membername.
 
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abacabb3

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Orthodoxy has changed over the years. The Creed was updated in the 4th century. A lot of the vestments are from the middle ages, though they have Roman origins. The hymnogarphy is also mainly from the middle ages. The energy-essence distinction, though Biblical and in the cappodocian fathers, really was not fleshed out until the 14th century. Granted, Orthodoxy has preserved more of the ancient practices than anyone, but there has been change due to time and culture.
 
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Dewi Sant

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I know right?

We don't all speak Greek anymore, nor do we have the Roman empire.
Some of us dress in polyester from the factories, and cotton from America.
There is music which made additions to harmony and artistic interest.

Even humans have grown taller and have greater degree of national literacy than previous times.


In short, Orthodoxy is not a religion, it is not simply a bunch of rules to be followed.
Orthodoxy is the Life of Christ in the world.
It is alive, it is the definition of life, as those who die faithful enter not to death, but eternal LIFE.

:)
 
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ArmyMatt

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Orthodoxy has changed over the years. The Creed was updated in the 4th century. A lot of the vestments are from the middle ages, though they have Roman origins. The hymnogarphy is also mainly from the middle ages. The energy-essence distinction, though Biblical and in the cappodocian fathers, really was not fleshed out until the 14th century. Granted, Orthodoxy has preserved more of the ancient practices than anyone, but there has been change due to time and culture.

yes, practice updates and the Church always is clarifying her doctrine, but only in Orthodoxy is the doctrine itself unchanging.
 
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~Anastasia~

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And we have changed the Litany too ... even recently. We pray "for those who travel by land, sea, and air ... !"

But there is a very great deal that hasn't changed as well. And all is built upon the foundations established by the Holy Apostles.

I think it's important to understand both the changeableness, and unchangeableness.

Ironically, I find we are sometimes criticized by non-Orthodox for being too rigid on things that are sometimes those very things - like adaptations to local ethnic cultures - that we do embrace as necessary and good change. Anyway ... that's a small issue overall. :)

But I do think it is important to acknowledge what has and can change - vs. what must be faithfully held.

:)




ETA: Said so much better by ArmyMatt while I was typing, lol.
 
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ArmyMatt

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And we have changed the Litany too ... even recently. We pray "for those who travel by land, sea, and air ... !"

But there is a very great deal that hasn't changed as well. And all is built upon the foundations established by the Holy Apostles.

I think it's important to understand both the changeableness, and unchangeableness.

Ironically, I find we are sometimes criticized by non-Orthodox for being too rigid on things that are sometimes those very things - like adaptations to local ethnic cultures - that we do embrace as necessary and good change. Anyway ... that's a small issue overall. :)

But I do think it is important to acknowledge what has and can change - vs. what must be faithfully held.

:)




ETA: Said so much better by ArmyMatt while I was typing, lol.

no, that was fine, haha. plus we pray for a President too
 
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Glaucus

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Saying that icons are bad because some people might unintentionally worship them, is like saying food is bad because some people might unintentionally become addicted to it and become gluttonous.

Icons are good because they represent the person of whoever is depicted, and food is good because it nourishes the body, as icons help to nourish the soul; despite that some people may abuse God's gifts.
 
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ArmyMatt

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Saying that icons are bad because some people might unintentionally worship them, is like saying food is bad because some people might unintentionally become addicted to it and become gluttonous.

Icons are good because they represent the person of whoever is depicted, and food is good because it nourishes the body, as icons help to nourish the soul; despite that some people may abuse God's gifts.

yep, they are the Gospel in color, and edify the sense of sight.
 
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ZaidaBoBaida

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When Hubman and I were courting and for the first few months of our marriage - he lived in PA and I lived in VA. We talked every night that we weren't together by Skype. Every single time - I had a picture of him open on my computer. I wasn't talking to the picture. I was talking to Hubman, but having the picture there helped me feel just a little bit closer to him.
 
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