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Discussion in 'Spirit-Filled / Charismatic' started by murjahel, Oct 5, 2013.

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  1. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    Strange fire occurred in the Old Testament, and in the New Testament, and even in our days. What is the cure for ‘strange fire’?

    It is not my goal to name names here, for we know from the Word of God that it is prophesied, and I will not call the Bible a liar, that there will be strange fire in the last days, as never before...

    We are told that 'seducing spirits and doctrines of devils' would abound. Jude, Peter, Paul, John, and the Lord all prophesied of false prophets, false christs, and polluted churches of the last days. So, if anyone doubts that there is 'strange fire' in the last days, they need to get out of the comic books, and read the Bible.

    We do need to know, we need to be sure we are not tainted with that strange fire, for God still judges strange fire.

    We need, to be cured of ‘strange fire’ a LIVE COAL OF FIRE.

    Notice the words in Isaiah.

    Isaiah 6:5-7 (KJV)
    5 Then said I, Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips, and I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips: for mine eyes have seen the King, the LORD of hosts.
    6 Then flew one of the seraphims unto me, having a live coal in his hand, which he had taken with the tongs from off the altar:
    7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.

    When Isaiah confessed his uncleanliness in words spoken, a seraphim brought from God a ‘coal of fire’ to put upon Isaiah’s lips. The fire removed the sin of Isaiah, cleansing the filth that had flowed from his lips previously. The ‘strange fire’ worship and living of the Nadab and Abihu’s of today, of the Simon magus’ of today, of the Ananias and Sapphira’s of today, need a live coal of true fire, to cleanse the sins.

    Isaiah’s sin was a lip and tongue sin. There is no other member of the body that is easily encouraged to sin. The strange fire in the heart of Nadab and Abihu was revealed in their words. The strange fire in Simon magus was revealed in his words. The strange fire in Ananias and Sapphira was revealed in their words. So, when we come to God for cleansing, so we will not be judged someday for the ‘strange fire’, we need to have our lips and words cleansed, forgiven.

    For instance, David had once proclaimed ‘All men are liars.’ (Psalms 106:2), and unfortunately, at sometime in every life that is quite an unfortunate truth. Our lips, all of ours have, sinned.

    Peter had a self assertive tongue. He listened to the Lord’s description of how he would fail the Lord, and Peter proclaimed ‘not I’. That lie was unintentional, but was a prideful, and was blasphemous to assert that Jesus had told an untruth.

    Nebuchadnezzar had a proud tongue, and proclaimed ‘Is not this the great Babylon which I built." (Daniel 4:30)
    Paul spoke of the gossiping tongues of some. "And withal they learn to be idle, wandering about from house to house; and not only idle, but tattlers also and busybodies, speaking things which they ought not. (1 Timothy 5:13)

    Gideon had a questioning tongue of doubt. "And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valor. And Gideon said unto him, Oh my Lord, if the LORD be with us, why then is all this befallen us? and where be all his miracles which our fathers told us of...?" (Judges 6:12-13)

    Jonah had a fiery tongue of temper. "But it displeased Jonah exceedingly, and he was very angry. And he prayed... I fled before unto Tarshish: for I knew that thou art a gracious God,... Therefore now, O LORD, take, I beseech thee, my life from me; for it is better for me to die than to live..." (Jonah 4:1-3)

    Those who are using ‘strange fire’ are revealed by their words. We can read messages on Christian forums, we can read sermons in books, and in magazines, we can listen to sermons in person or on the media, and by the words we read and hear, we can identify ‘strange fire’ in the hearts of some.

    Words reveal, unveil the inner person, and strange fire if it is within. The words that revealed the strange fire sin, need cleansed when we come to the Lord in repentance. We are commanded to ‘put off’ the filthy talk from our lives.

    Colossians 3:8-10 (KJV)
    8 But now ye also put off all these; anger, wrath, malice, blasphemy, filthy communication out of your mouth.
    9 Lie not one to another, seeing that ye have put off the old man with his deeds;
    10 And have put on the new man, which is renewed in knowledge after the image of him that created him:
    Putting on the ‘new man’, the one with ‘real fire’ is accompanied with a cleansing of the lips, of the tongue.
    Isaiah had probably had filthy words, lying words, blasphemous words, doubting words, angry words, etc. He felt unclean due to the horrible words that had flowed through his lips. It took the fiery coals, to spiritually cleanse his lips so he would be able to be the prophet that God wanted him to become.

    We want to be prophetic for the Lord, spokespersons for the Lord in these last days, so that many would come to the Lord.

    We need a fiery cleansing.

    more to come...
  2. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    What do the fiery coals that cleansed Isaiah symbolize?

    Fire reveals the presence of the Lord.

    Just as fire does many things, good and seemingly bad, so the symbol of fire is mainly a symbol of the presence of God that does all those things.

    1. God revealed Himself in the form of a smoking furnace and a burning lamp when He renewed His covenant with Abraham.

    Genesis 15:17-18 (KJV)
    17 And it came to pass, that, when the sun went down, and it was dark, behold a smoking furnace, and a burning lamp that passed between those pieces.
    18 In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates:

    The ‘true fire’ means the presence of the true God. When mankind tries to substitute self and flesh into God’s work, it becomes ‘strange fire’. We need the real presence of God.

    2. The burning bush revealed the presence of God to Moses.

    Exodus 3:2 (KJV)
    2 And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.

    The true fire will be God’s presence and voice speaking to us. Some hear the voice of flesh, or the voices of demons, suggesting things that uplift self, that condone sin, that water down what God is truly speaking. The ‘strange fire’ is unlike the burning bush, yet, many are fooled by strange fire.

    3. The fire by day over the tabernacle revealed the presence of God leading the children of Israel.

    Exodus 13:21-22 (KJV)
    21 And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night:
    22 He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people.

    The true fire led, and led them toward the promised land. Some are following strange fire, and are headed into traps of the devil.

    4. On the day of Pentecost, ‘tongues of fire’ came and sat upon all of those who were filled with the Holy Spirit.

    Acts 2:3-4 (KJV)
    3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
    4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

    The true fire was the Holy Spirit sitting upon their heads. The ‘strange fire’ is not God, and some are being filled with gifts and signs that are not from God. The Simon magus’ of today are doing magic scams pretending they are gifts of the Spirit.

    We need the real fire, not the strange fire.
  3. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    Sometimes the real fire,
    the presence of God,
    reveals His approval
    1. At the Tabernacle, fire showed God’s approval. The fire consumed the offering, and showed that God had approved and had accepted the repentance of the people.

    Leviticus 9:24 (KJV)
    24 And there came a fire out from before the LORD, and consumed upon the altar the burnt offering and the fat: which when all the people saw, they shouted, and fell on their faces.

    2. Fire showed God’s approval of the Temple at its dedication.

    2 Chronicles 7:1-3 (KJV)
    1 Now when Solomon had made an end of praying, the fire came down from heaven, and consumed the burnt offering and the sacrifices; and the glory of the LORD filled the house.
    2 And the priests could not enter into the house of the LORD, because the glory of the LORD had filled the LORD'S house.
    3 And when all the children of Israel saw how the fire came down, and the glory of the LORD upon the house, they bowed themselves with their faces to the ground upon the pavement, and worshipped, and praised the LORD, saying, For he is good; for his mercy endureth for ever.

    3. Fire on Mt. Carmel showed acceptance of Elijah’s sacrifice.

    1 Kings 18:37-38 (KJV)
    37 Hear me, O LORD, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the LORD God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
    38 Then the fire of the LORD fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.

    The real fire, contrary to the strange fire, reveals God's approval of the ministry, of the message preached...

  4. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    Sometimes, the true fire,
    the presence of God
    brings God’s judgment
    on the strange fire.

    1. God’s presence at the site of Sodom and Gomorrah’s sin brought judgment.

    Genesis 19:24 (KJV)
    24 Then the LORD rained upon Sodom and upon Gomorrah brimstone and fire from the LORD out of heaven;

    2. Nadab and Abihu, sons of Aaron offered strange fire on the altar of incense, and fire from God, showing His presence brought judgment.

    Leviticus 10:1-2 (KJV)
    1 And Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD, which he commanded them not.
    2 And there went out fire from the LORD, and devoured them, and they died before the LORD.

    Sometimes, the true fire of God,
    the presence of God,
    brings testing and purification.

    1. Fire purifies as a refiner’s fire purifies the metal.

    Malachi 3:1-3 (KJV)
    1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.
    2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:
    3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto the LORD an offering in righteousness.

    2. As Jesus looked over the seven churches, His eyes were as a ‘flame of fire’ in His work of discussing their purification.

    Revelation 1:14-16 (KJV)
    14 His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire;
    15 And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters.
    16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp two-edged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

    Fire purifies the dross of pride. It burns the rags of self-righteousness. Fire burns the leaves of empty profession. The stubble of doubt is burned by God’s fire of purification. The thorns of a prickly temper are burnt by God’s presence in fire.

    The filth of an unholy life are to be burnt from us. The useless chaff is said to someday be burnt. The roots of bitterness are to be burnt away. Fire is often used to describe the purification process. When God approaches the sinful and unclean, like a fire, He purifies or judges. He prefers to purify.

    3. The trial of our faith, done by the presence of the Lord, is done by fire.

    1 Peter 1:7 (KJV)
    7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ:

    4. God’s presence brings a shaking, a fire of judgment of sin. He consumes sin in His presence.

    Hebrews 12:29 (KJV)
    29 For our God is a consuming fire.
  5. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    The true fire of God,
    the presence of God,
    in our words quoted from God,
    are like a fire.

    1. The words of God were like fire when they His word flowed through Jeremiah’s lips.

    Jeremiah 5:14 (KJV)
    14 Wherefore thus saith the LORD God of hosts, Because ye speak this word, behold, I will make My words in thy mouth fire, and this people wood, and it shall devour them.

    2. Jeremiah confirmed that there was a ‘burning fire’ inside him, demanding to flow out of his lips.

    Jeremiah 20:9 (KJV)
    9 Then I said, I will not make mention of Him, nor speak any more in His name. But His word was in mine heart as a burning fire shut up in my bones, and I was weary with forbearing, and I could not stay.

    The true fire of God illuminates.

    1. God led Israel by the ‘fire’ over the Tabernacle. We need to be led by the Lord too, and He gives His presence, to lead us thereby.

    Psalm 78:14 (KJV)
    14 In the daytime also he led them with a cloud, and all the night with a light of fire.

    2. Moses’ face was illuminated by the presence of God.

    Exodus 34:35 (KJV)
    35 And the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses' face shone: and Moses put the vail upon his face again, until he went in to speak with him.

    3. The presence of the Lord is in the Word of God, for it is His living Word. His Word illuminates us, giving us insight to the why, how, when, of the events of our lives. His Word illuminates with answers and directions.

    Psalm 119:105 (KJV)
    105 Thy word is a lamp unto my feet, and a light unto my path.

    So, what were these burning coals
    that Isaiah received upon his lips?

    The passage says that ‘mine eyes have seen the King’, so the presence of the Lord was there. The presence was accompanied with fire, fire to cleanse the unclean lips of Isaiah.

    This fire was God’s approval of Isaiah as chosen to be a prophet for the Lord. He was to receive great visions of God’s messages for all the ages. The fiery coals were showing God’s choice of a vessel, i.e. Isaiah, to bless.

    This fire was God’s judgment on the sins of the tongue that Isaiah had committed. God did not approve of the sin, though He approved of the choice of Isaiah for His work. Sin needed judged, but Isaiah received mercy and the calling of God. The purification of the vessel chosen by God was necessary, so that the words that would flow from him would be God’s holy and pure words. The fiery coals typified the purification and judgment of the impure words.

    Isaiah was going to be quoting words from God, writing a prophetic book for the ages, and those words would burn then like fire, and down through the ages have continued to burn like fire. The fire upon his lips typified that.

    Isaiah was illuminated by those coals of fire, for when God then called for a volunteer, Isaiah jumped for the opportunity to serve this God.

    Isaiah 6:7-8 (KJV)
    7 And he laid it upon my mouth, and said, Lo, this hath touched thy lips; and thine iniquity is taken away, and thy sin purged.
    8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.

    The fiery coals, the presence of God brings judgment, purification, approval, and illumination.

    From that day forward, the words of fire from God’s presence, flowed from Isaiah.

    The strange fire that some try to use to claim that same kind of anointing, that same kind of illumination, do not bring the same blessings, but bring the wrath of God...
  6. Gospel Guy

    Gospel Guy Headed Home!

    Word of Faith
    Is this in Acts? Please let me know where that is at.

    Also, is this available as a PDF download?
    I'd like to ad this to my collection of notes as this is a good article.
  7. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    The information can be found in THE INTERNATIONAL STANDARD BIBLE ENCYCLOPEDIA, under 'Simon magus'... also, if you see above this thread, there is a box named 'thread tools' and you can request 'printable version' and copy mine from here...

    on my profile page, you will find a site where you can go and see my much longer explanation of Simon Magus, under the thread 'spiritual warfare' lessons 56 and 57... you can copy and paste from there...
  8. probinson

    probinson Legend

    Word of Faith
    The details of Simon Magus can be found in the apocryphal book, The Acts of Peter. There is little more than a single mention of him in scripture.

  9. Biblicist

    Biblicist Full Gospel believer

    It does seem that these apocryphal books have unfairly characterized Simon so the material within these books should be dismissed.

    From what I can see, Simon almost got the chop and thankfully he had the wisdom to repent of his sin; I think that we should ignore what appear to be unfounded characterizations and allow Simon to have his place in history where we see a man who was once steeped in mysticism who now has made his stand for the Lord.

    As far as I am concerned, we should have more Simon's in our midst!
  10. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    Simon magus was actually talked about prolifically in the early church. There is a vast wealth of writings about him. Justin Martyr wrote much about him and the followers of Simon magus. Jerome quoted from the writings of Simon magus. Irenaeus wrote much concerning him too. There is a collection of writings known as the Clementines that also speak much of him and the false heresies he started. Origen wrote much concerning Simon magus also. The list can go on and on... The material is vast... and some have not done much translating or study in the early church period... it is a vast source of info that helps us understand the reason for the conversion of this 'magician' being in the Bible...

    Jannes and Jambres have even a shorter mention in the Bible, and to know anything more than their names, we have to go to other writings to see why Paul spoke of them...

    Some of the writings on him by the various early church writers is translated and can be accessed if you are interested. If you can translate Greek, Latin, etc.. you can find even more to read....

    Study of this sort can greatly aid our understanding of the Bible, and aids us in understanding the heretical movement of that day... It is amazing how the gnostic heresy of the early church started with this Simon magus, and we find even in our day, that same gnostic false doctrines corrupting some churches...
  11. Biblicist

    Biblicist Full Gospel believer

    From what I can tell, Justin Martyr seemed to have confused Simon with someone else and as for the apocryphal books, they are merely false testimonies.

    Even so, I certainly agree that there are numerous 'purveyors of darkness' masquerading as ministries and these are found within both the Full Gospel and cessationist camps.
  12. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    Why does God hate 'strange fire' so much that He could send fire from heaven to kill the ones bringing the strange fire into His presence???

    2 Peter 1:3:
    "As His divine power has given to us all things that pertain to life and godliness through the knowledge of Him Who called us."

    God wants to reveal a 'knowledge of Him'... and the true fire, from the altar where the lamb was offered, was a revelation meant to teach them on what that knowledge depended. To deny that revelation, and use fire from any other source was a denial of the lesson they were to already have learned.

    God gets angry at the refusal of people to accept the obvious lessons that He teaches.

    God in the New Testament has given to us all things we need to know that pertain to life and godliness so we can worship Him acceptably, in spirit and in truth.

    God has always made it plain and emphatic that the only worship that is acceptable to Him is only that which is in accordance with His will.

    Matthew 4:10:
    "You shall worship the Lord your God and Him only shall you serve."

    If we worship God in spirit and in truth, we cannot worship anyone or anything else. Anything we worship, other than God, is an idol. According to Webster, an idol is "an image used as an object or instrument of worship."

    God forbids us to make and worship idols. In the story of Nadab and Abihu, the strange fire was their idol...

    God says in Exodus 20:4-5:
    "You shall not make for yourself a carved image, any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God."

    We see we are not to make any image whether it is a statue or any likeness of anything in heaven or earth to worship them. We are not to take 'strange fire', when the real fire is so obviously pointed out by God to be the only fire to be taken. The refusal to obey, and to know Him as we are commanded, is totally objectionable by God.

    Strange fire is wrong... to disobey God's directions, and to disobey the typology of it, is totally wrong... The 'jealous God' objects vehemently to that intentional error.

    Moses ruined the typology of speaking to the rock, after striking it only once, and when he struck it a second time, it cost him greatly... he could not go into the promised land with the others...

    The typology of the revelation is vital to God. God still is angered by 'strange fire' for that same reason. We should have learned some vital truths, and to be so stupid as to not know those truths, in our day, is 'strange fire'. It still upsets God.

    Ananias and Sapphira learned that the hard way.

    In 1 John 5:21 we read:
    "My little children, guard yourselves from idols."

    To give honor to fire from some other source than from God Himself, was strange fire worship in the days of Nadab and Abihu... to give honor to any other source of blessing than the blood of Jesus shed for us is idolatry also.

    It upset God then, it upsets Him today. Hebrews 10 speak of the dishonoring of the Lord... and of the Holy Spirit, and prove that 'strange fire' is still very upsetting to God.

    Hebrews 10:26-31 (KJV)
    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
    30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
    31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God

    God destroyed Nadab and Abihu with fire... and there is still a 'fiery' indignation of God for those who have 'trodden under foot the Son of God'. Nadab and Abihu received that 'fiery indignation' for their dishonoring of the 'fire' that God had sent to consume the Lamb on the altar... and if we dishonor the teachings of God, now so fully revealed in this age of the Holy Spirit, we receive even greater 'fiery indignation'.

    'strange fire' is horrible.... we must avoid it...
  13. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    'Strange fire' is horrible, we must avoid it. Yet, some are confused as to how it is exhibited in these last days. Some may say that ‘another one’ is blaspheming the Holy Spirit and that person turns around and says the other one is. Who is? We need to look at ‘blasphemy’ and see what it truly means.

    The word ‘blasphemy’ is from the Greek word ‘blasphemia’. It basically means ‘injurious, defamatory, abusive, insulting, denigrating speech against God, One of the Trinity, sacred things.
    It is the antithesis of worship and reverent honor.
    Blasphemy is directly disobeying the second commandment,

    It is the uttering of words of hatred, of reproach, of defiance, of speaking ill against God.

    James 2:7 condemns those who "blaspheme that honorable Name by Which You are called’‘.

    Blasphemy is not respecting God, His Name, His Person, His work, His nature, and it is a grave sin. Blasphemy is slander against God. It is speech injurious to God. It is irreverence, abusive, scurrilously talking about Deity.

    The pharisees claimed Jesus had blasphemed, when He claimed equality with God. If it had not been true, it would have been ‘blasphemy’. Yet, many today claim to be a ‘god’ or claim to be ‘Jesus’ returned.

    John 10:33
    "For a good work, we stone Thee not, but for blasphemy, and because Thou, being a man, makest Thyself God."

    Mark 2:7 "Why doth this Man thus speak blasphemies?
    Who can forgive sins but God?"

    Blasphemy is saying anything about God that is not true.

    Some claim God failed them. That is blasphemy, for He never failed any of us. We fail Him, He never fails us. Talking lies about God, falsely accusing Him is blasphemy. It is a common sin, found in most churches, and seldom, it seems, repented.

    The movie ‘Jesus Christ, Superstar’ was blasphemy against our Lord, for it vilified Him, it denigrated Him from Who He actually is. Other videos and movies that do the same, and recently, some have gone far beyond previous ones. Some may laugh at the mockery of our Lord, and condone the blasphemy said against Him, but it is the most vile of sins.

    Some mild forms of ‘blasphemy’ that bother me when I hear them, is when some say God’s name as an ‘expletive’. They say things like, ‘Oh my God, why have you done that?" God’s name is not an expletive, He is the great Creator of the universe, He is too awesome to misuse His holy name in that way. It dishonors Him.

    Blasphemy is to ‘speak against’ or to defame God. The act of Nadab and Abihu in taking strange fire, instead of the fire ignited by God on the burnt altar, was a ‘blasphemy’ of God’s message to those in the wilderness.

    God wanted the lesson taught that Jesus was the only Way to come to God in worship, and the incense had to burn from the fire that had accepted the sacrifice of the Lamb.

    They denigrated that message with their refusal to use that fire, and it amounted to BLASPHEMY. The message they were teaching in that act of defiance was blasphemous against our Lord. God took it very seriously, and they were struck dead by fire.

    Ananias and Sapphira were likewise judged guilty of great sin, in lying in the midst of revival. They offered an offering, that would have been accepted, but their idea they were buying approval from God made them blasphemous of the way that God was trying to teach the people. God judged them immediately upon their words of deceit, in the midst of the Spirit of Truth.

    I have been watching some things, on web sites, in which videos are portraying Jesus to be loving of sin, hateful of sinners, and saying things the devil would want Him to say. Many Christians have been laughing at this, like it was just humor. It is not humorous at all. It is blasphemy to the max.

    What is amazing me, about the people promoting such videos is two things...

    1. The Lord is moving in lives, and hearts are being touched by the Lord. Revival is coming, and I can sense it and see it many places. These videos are the antithesis of the places where revival is happening.

    2. The devil is not giving up, the battle is hard, demons are trying but failing in their answering witchcraft prayers. Some once thought to be 'saints are blaspheming, or promoting blasphemous things about Jesus (shock of shocks). How can once dedicated saints do that?

    Words against me, hurt a bit, but words offensive to the Lord, blasphemy, are the harshest, most despicable sin possible for their mouths to utter. How can sins like that flow from the mouths that once preached the Word, that once flowed rhema? We need to cleanse ourselves from that filth. God is going to have the Holy Spirit do a cleansing for the church, for the filth and sin that degrades the church is so horrible, the church is not anywhere close to 'without spot or wrinkle'.

    The church itself is defiled and in degradation (to put it mildly).

    Revival and foul smelling garbage, in the same sites, in the same churches, ought not to be so, and God is displeased to the max.

    Blasphemy in Christian circles, laughing at degradation of our loving and wonderful Lord, that blasphemes the person of Jesus, utterly sickens me inside, and grieves the Spirit of God.

    Intercession is the only thing keeping those ones from immediate judgment. The Lord's willingness to hear that intercession is nearing an end.
    Mark 12:31
    "Wherefore, I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men, but the blasphemy against the Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven unto men. And whosoever SPEAKETH A WORD AGAINST the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him, but whosoever SPEAKETH AGAINST the Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come."

    Some claimed that Jesus had done His miracles by the power of Beelzebub. Jesus showed how foolish that blasphemous statement was, for why would the devils cast out devils, or why would the devils try to undo the work they have been doing. Then Jesus went on to explain that sins of blasphemy against Him could be forgiven, but sins of that kind against the Holy Spirit would never be forgiven.

    There is a reason for that difference. For the Person of the Holy Spirit, has His own nature, personality, work, and ministry. He is a sensitive Person, our closest friend, our Comforter, and our Advocate; yet He is easily quenched, grieved, and denied. He loves us, but is easily made "jealous." He is a jealous lover of each saint. By offending Him, we may lose His power, His presence, His conviction, and perhaps even our salvation. The subject of- sins we could commit against Him- is very serious, and needs to be considered carefully.

    Misplaced love will cause us to deny the very nature of the Spirit, that is - to love. (II Timothy 3:1-5) This state is predicted for the last days, when many Christians will have a powerless religion. We are instructed by Paul in II Timothy to turn away from such Christians, who by their misplaced love, deny or turn away from the power of the Spirit.

    Some go further and "grieve" the Spirit. Ephesians 4:30-31 tells us that bitterness, wrath, anger, etc. between the saints will "grieve" the Holy Spirit.

    Others will "quench" the Spirit. Some will "resist" Him.

    A few will try to even "lie" to the Spirit.

    The really foolish will "vex" the Spirit.

    The most blatant will "blaspheme" the Holy Spirit.

    ‘Strange fire’ includes words and actions that defile the message that is supposed to be preached, taught, and demonstrated. We see many ministries defile the message of God. That is blasphemy, it is strange fire.

    more to come
  14. probinson

    probinson Legend

    Word of Faith

    FTR, this is what the Bible says about Simon in its entirety;
    Acts 8:9-24 (NIV)
    Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw.

    When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit.

    When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.”

    Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.”

    Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”
    Here's more information on Simon;
    "...Simon also appears in Gnostic texts in which his character and biography are expanded upon, but these accounts are unlikely to be historically reliable due to the nature of these writings and their anonymous authors...."
    "...After this event, the Bible never again refers to Simon the Sorcerer. It would appear, contrary to apocryphal and Gnostic texts that seek to glorify his role as sorcerer and his previous satanic abilities, that Simon was repentant and may have continued to be a member of the local church in Samaria. However, Justin Martyr and other Christian apologists like Irenaeus insist he was an antichrist and continued his sorcery, even founding Gnosticism itself..."

    Read more: Who was Simon the Sorcerer?
  15. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran

    These sins against the Holy Spirit, of grieving, quenching, lying to, vexing, and blaspheming, are seen in the church far too often. The biggest problem is that there is far too little teaching on these sins. How can we adequately avoid such sins when we know so little about them? The churches spend time on rules, and enforcing traditions; yet, they cannot seem to find time to talk about these serious sins against the Holy Spirit.

    Most will remember that the Lord Jesus is in nature like a "LAMB." There needs to also be the recognition that the Spirit is, in nature, like a "DOVE."

    John 1:29-32

    The dove, like most birds, will easily be put to flight. Yet this "DOVE" remained upon this "LAMB." Jesus, as a lamb was submissive, meek, and gentle. If our nature is like the Lord's, the Spirit will remain upon us. If we become like a "bull", the Dove will be put to flight. Too many Christians want to have a nature that is unlike a lamb's. They wonder why they do not have the presence of the Spirit abiding with them, as some saints have.

    The lamb is a simple creature. It is helpless, without the Shepherd. It makes no schemes to achieve its purposes. It lives an uncomplicated life. It is easily shorn, for it offers no resistance to the giving up of its rights. A lamb never resists, complains. As a sheep is silent before its shearers, so Jesus was silent before His accusers (Isaiah 53:7). The lamb is a peaceful animal. It bears no grudges, seeks no revenge, holds no bitterness. Upon such a Lamb, the Dove can remain. If we want to maintain the presence of the Spirit, we need to take on the very nature that was the Lord's, the nature of a lamb.
    ‘Strange fire’ is the sin of denigrating the Lord, the Holy Spirit, their message to the people. Corrupt doctrines, lies of saying ‘God told me’ that were really the speaking of the carnal heart, lies of ‘God said He will do this or that’ and the events prophesied prove not to have been from God at all, are ‘strange fire’.

    The sin of blaspheming the Holy Spirit is the result of many other sins that proceed such grave sin. The strange fire starts with grieving the Holy Spirit, and then quenching the Holy Spirit, and proceeds through lying to, vexing, etc. until one finally reaches the ultimate ‘strange fire’ of blaspheming.
  16. jiminpa

    jiminpa Senior Member Supporter

    In Relationship
    You are reading an awful lot of what isn't in the text into this and drawing empirical conclusions from your own suppositions.

    Do you have a scriptural source for turning your list of sins into a hierarchy, or is this like those who insist on creating a doctrine out of the chronological theory of the seven churches of Revelation with no scriptural support?

    To me calling every move of God that one doesn't happen to like, "strange fire" is a manipulative attempt at quenching the Holy Spirit, and is playing dangerously close to blasphemy.
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  17. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran



    Matthew 12:31-37 (KJV)
    31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
    32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.
    33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
    34 O generation of vipers, how can ye, being evil, speak good things? for out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh.
    35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things.
    36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment.
    37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

    Mark 3:29-30 (KJV)
    29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
    30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.

    To say that one is filled with and listening to a false spirit, is blasphemy against them, if it is untrue. The fact may be that the one claiming the other is blaspheming, may be blaspheming themselves by their statement. Blasphemy against one another is horrible enough, but when we blaspheme the Spirit, blaspheme the message of the Holy Spirit, defile His program and gospel to the people, we are in grave danger for that STRANGE FIRE.

    To utter words against God willfully, malignantly, and knowingly is blasphemy. Not one of the Trinity is more sacred, or more than equal than the others. So why is the blasphemy against the Spirit worse than blasphemy against Jesus or God the Father? It is because of their jobs. Jesus takes people to God. It is the Spirit that brings people to Jesus. So the "Initiator" is the Spirit. He starts the process of bringing people to salvation. He brings the conviction that makes one want to become saved. So if He is grieved so much that He ceases to make a person want to get saved, then that person will never repent to Jesus, so Jesus can forgive.

    If a person blasphemes Christ, the Spirit is still working to bring the person to Jesus in repentance. If one blasphemes the Spirit, who then will convict that one to bring them to Christ for repentance???

    The unpardonable sin causes the person to never again feel conviction. If one feels conviction, then that person has not sinned the unpardonable sin.

    John 16:8-15 (KJV)
    8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
    9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
    10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
    11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
    12 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.
    13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
    14 He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.
    15 All things that the Father hath are mine: therefore said I, that he shall take of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

    Therefore, we need to be very careful with our preached message, to not offend, grieve, quench, vex, or blaspheme the Holy Spirit or His message. We are in the last days, and need to carefully examine our hearts. If we corrupt the message of God, lie, deceive, create hoaxes, and denigrate the message of the Holy Spirit, we are in grave danger for that ‘strange fire’.

    We need to ‘test all things’ and to be alert to the message being preached. We find many ministries today with ‘strange fire’, and they are grieving, quenching, vexing, etc. the Holy Spirit. When supernatural gifts are fake and pretend, to fool the people, the Holy Spirit wants nothing to do with those ‘strange fire’ messages. He is grieved, and it is not the Holy Spirit that is speaking to those perpetrators of ‘strange fire’.

    As Pentecostal believers, we need to flush out, expose and rebuke the strange fire found in our circles. Hopefully, there will not be the need of non Pentecostals to expose the ‘strange fire’. We would have to hang our heads in shame if we allowed ‘strange fire’, commended those who perpetrated hoaxes in the name of the Holy Spirit. It is time we ‘test’ and ‘try’ and when blasphemy of claiming something is from the Holy Spirit that is from an evil spirit, is found, we need to expose it. There is too much strange fire in many denominations, and we are more responsible for that which is in our own circles.

    Those who have erred like Nadab and Abihu need in this day of grace to find mercy through repentance and godly sorrow for such offenses. They need reproof, and conviction. Without it, they may never repent. Without it they will not want to repent. It would be ‘strange fire’ for us to pat them on the back and become thereby ‘partakers of their sin’.

    2 John 1:10-11 (KJV)
    10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
    11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

    Paul sinned the unpardonable sin, but he was forgiven because it was done ignorantly in unbelief.

    1 Timothy 1:12-13 (KJV)
    12 And I thank Christ Jesus our Lord, who hath enabled me, for that he counted me faithful, putting me into the ministry;
    13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

    So the Bible seems to indicate that this sin done in ignorance is not unpardonable. When done willingly, and knowingly, it is unpardonable.

    Hebrews 10:26-29 (KJV)
    26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
    27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
    28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
    29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?

    Like the fiery judgment on Nadab and Abihu, there will be judgment on the ‘strange fire’ of our times. It may not be lightning from heaven, but it will be judgment of some sort, suddenly, upon those who have ‘trodden under foot the Son of God’, and those who have ‘done despite unto the Spirit of grace’. Our words, our message, needs to be truly the TRUE FIRE, and not the STRANGE FIRE.

  18. Gospel Guy

    Gospel Guy Headed Home!

    Word of Faith
    Alot of persecution willl come from other Christians who will claim this is causing division...

    So, are we to name names? Or simply discuss false doctrine and give scripture references as to why it's false doctrine?

    I've heard it said that it may be better to teach against false doctrine with scripture as opposed to trying to do that while mentioning names of specific ministers as to try to keep strife and division to a minimum... but then again, I'm thinking now about the verse where Jesus said He came to bring division.

    I guess we just need to smile whilst naming names? Or, is it best to not name names?
  19. jiminpa

    jiminpa Senior Member Supporter

    In Relationship
  20. murjahel

    murjahel Senior Veteran


    Personally, I prefer teaching that sin is sin, what the Bible says, and then the error and those errant are exposed by the teaching, not by naming their names...

    To name names is always risky, for perhaps the info received is not accurate, or perhaps they just moments before repented to God and got things right with Him, then I would be speaking justified criticism of what they had been and had done, but God would no longer remember their sin... and I would be...

    So, if you notice here, I am not naming preachers, though I could name some... some even from years ago, that I witnessed in my younger years... it seems even more rampant now...

    Some would like me to name names, then the discussion would turn to attack/defend between me and the reader... that does not solve the problem.

    With some personal experience of seeing errant doctrine and sins in some circles, some speaking with those inside the camps of those who are errant, I could name and describe their failures to burn only the true fire... the strange fire, as Biblically predicted is very much increased...

    I believe also in a great revival, one that will see the errant repent or be judged... I want to see the repentance chosen... and pray for that... but we cannot hide our head in the sand and pretend to not know of sin...

    The Holy Spirit is the Convictor... I teach what the Bible says, let Him go from there...

    It is like throwing a stone in the hen house... you do not need to enter to know how many hens are in there... one stone into the place, and they all fly up and are easily counted... it is the same with preaching 'sin is sin'... that stone makes the guilty all jump up and try to fly away... we do not need to name names, just preach the truth... they identify themselves....
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
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