Real Feminism?

[Aimee30]

What is 'real feminism'?
To me, a real feminist would not dress sexy and then sing songs about how they don't want a man to do this this and this--examples Spice Girls, Shanaiah Twain, among others. I would think you want to dress conservatively if you don't want to attract a man or feel like a sex object.
I do understand the equal rights and being counted as an equal human being to a man--but why are all are examples of feminists that we see usually those who portray themselves the opposite in appearance? Also explain the tendency for some of them to want to have multiple partners (but no responsibility for it--i.e. abortion for unwanted pregnancy). I mean wouldn't it make more sense for feminist to want to be with as few men as possible, since they consider themselves independent?
You can also make your own comments of some of the irrationality of feminism or what you think makes sense about the movement if you like.

 

[loriersea]

Shoot. I had written out this long (and brilliant, I assure you ) reply, and then I hit the back button.

Long story short, "girl power" the pop movement has nothing to do with feminism, the social movement.

 

[Sabina41]

One of my favorite definitions of "feminism" is that it is the "radical idea that women are people." Ani Difranco once said that why can't all decent men and women call themselves feminists?

This notion that a feminist dresses a certain way and should act/appear/think a certain way is ridiculous. Feminism is simply seeking to be seen as equal to men. Of the same value and worth. Being a feminist doesn't mean you have to cut your hair short, not shave your armpits or legs, and protest for the husband to be the stay at home parent...it's believing that, if you do those things or anything for that matter, you matter just as much as the man standing next to you.

I am a feminist.

-ashley

 

[JulySheMustFly]

Personal opinion here. I am tired of professional women saying in a condesending tone, "Oh you stay home." I can work and I do work as my own boss of my own company, but why does that have to be said for them to respect my choice. I also think some femenism allowing women to work equally as men has almost forced families to take on 2 incomes to live comfortably.

I've also seen women bite the heads off of older gentlemen who have opened doors for them out of courtesy. This is too much.

I don't need a man. I can fix a sink, change the oil, open the pickles without one, but sure wouldn't want to go through life without the one I have.

 

[nuclear]

To the OP:

Feminism is a diverse collection of social theories, political movements, and moral philosophies, largely motivated by or concerning the experiences of women, especially in terms of their social, political, and economic situation. As a social movement, feminism largely focuses on limiting or eradicating gender inequality and promoting women's rights, interests, and issues in society.

Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

Please read some of that wiki article. You don't have to go through the entire thing (although of course that would be best), but just reading the introduction may be enough. It's an interesting read.

 

[nuclear]

Personal opinion here. I am tired of professional women saying in a condesending tone, "Oh you stay home." I can work and I do work as my own boss of my own company, but why does that have to be said for them to respect my choice. I also think some femenism allowing women to work equally as men has almost forced families to take on 2 incomes to live comfortably.

I've also seen women bite the heads off of older gentlemen who have opened doors for them out of courtesy. This is too much.

You are not describing feminism. You are describing a certain type of women. And there is a word to describe that certain type of women, though mentioning it here would be rather inappropriate.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

You are not describing feminism. You are describing a certain type of women. And there is a word to describe that certain type of women, though mentioning it here would be rather inappropriate.

Fine, not talking about femenism but a result of it. Without it this type of woman would be told "Shut up woman and make my dinner."

 

[SallyNow]

What is 'real feminism'?
To me, a real feminist would not dress sexy and then sing songs about how they don't want a man to do this this and this--examples Spice Girls, Shanaiah Twain, among others. I would think you want to dress conservatively if you don't want to attract a man or feel like a sex object.

Well, "girl power" pop music movement had to do with only one thing-selling records.

As to what feminism is, well, that's simple. It's about choice. Not that kind of choice. It's about the choice and freedom to, at a fundemental and basic level, decide what to with ones life. It's about being able to make decisions without being looked down on because the decisions are not "feminine" enough.

Also, I certianly wouldn't put Shaniah Twain in with The Spice Girls. One has had a long career, working towards great success through years and years of working her way up the industry ladder. The other was a group assembled to be a shot-in-the-pan music group that would sell millions of records with catchy pop tunes, and ride the wave of whatever they needed to ride. This isn't to take away from the Spice Girls succes-they were pretty good pop divas, and they did work hard-but it a totally different sort of success.

But here we come to the first problem-why wouldn't you want to dress up sometimes? There is no lack of freedom, no loss of face when someone dresses up in a fun or playful manner. Simply because someone chooses to dress in a short skirt does not mean they want sexual attention. Perhaps they just really like thier legs. I know many women who are like this. Wearing a short skirt does not necassarily mean you want sexual advances-it could just mean you felt like wearing something cute that day.

I do understand the equal rights and being counted as an equal human being to a man--but why are all are examples of feminists that we see usually those who portray themselves the opposite in appearance?

What exactly do you mean by "opposite in appearance"? Do you mean that all feminists should wear loose 80's powersuits?

Yes, some women who are feminists wear what they like, and what they like happens to sometimes be short skirts, tight pants, or whatever. So what? There are literally millions of feminists who wear normal, modest (in the full sense of the word) clothing most of the time.

Look at some known feminists, feminists who are known not for their acting or singing talents, but instead for their overall works: Hilary Clinton, Dr Angela Merkel, Anne McLellan...do any of them wear skimpy clothing? No, of course not. It's not approriate in their work place, and there's no want or need to do it.

Even looking at the entertainment industry, there is a huge number of women who do not openly go around "I'm a feminist" but who do uphold and support equality and respect for all. There are some who wear skimpy clothing, but some who don't.

Also explain the tendency for some of them to want to have multiple partners (but no responsibility for it--i.e. abortion for unwanted pregnancy). I mean wouldn't it make more sense for feminist to want to be with as few men as possible, since they consider themselves independent?

With this, you bring up a competely messed-up, false version of feminism.

Real feminism is about choices and respect for all. It isn't about lonely independency from men, but about independence to make choices for oneself.

This means that if you want a husband and a career, you can go after both. It doesn't mean you automatically want to spend the rest of your life without a mate, although there certainly are those who do, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Simply because a woman wants to be respected as a full, thinking human being doesn't mean she wants to stay single her whole life. Feminism has nothing to do with whether one wants male friends, lovers, or a husband.

You keep referring to feminists as "them". Well, then, you're talking about a very large segment of the population, a segment that includes men. Real feminism is simply the respect and equality for all humans, regardless of gender. That's it. The rest is semantics and personal choice and theories.

You can also make your own comments of some of the irrationality of feminism or what you think makes sense about the movement if you like.

There isn't any irrationality about real, original feminism, the right to respect and choice (again, not THAT choice, but life choices in general)

There are some really crazy theories that have used feminism for thier own ends. But it's easy to spot the fake feminism from the real thing: Is the core issue about respect and choices for people of both genders? Or is it about selling something? If the answer to first question is "yes", then you may just have real feminism. If it's "no", then it's a crackpot theory.

Feminists aren't just pop stars and politicians. Feminists exist with every man who respects his wife as a full human being, every woman who chooses whether college is right for her or not. Feminism isn't about alienating men, but about making sure that everyone is respected, whether they are male or female.

 

[momalle1]

I would think a feminist would be concerned with equal treatment of man and women. Both having the same opportunities and benefits while recognizing the uniqueness and differences of each. E.G., men have a tendency to be more interested in mechanical things, but a feminist would accept and promote a female who was interested also, as well as accepting a man who was interested in something that women have a tendancy to do. As a man, I dress to fit my physical aspects, to accent my good points and blend my bad points, why wouldn't anyone want to present themselves at their best? Shania is a beautiful woman, but if that were all she was, she would hardly be as successful as she is. She is also a great singer and has a beautiful personality. I'm not sure if you would call me a feminist, but I believe women should be allowed the same opportunities as men, and recieve the same pay and other benefits as men. I've always felt that way, I was surprised when I was a teen and found out this wasn't so. I like seeing Shania, but I appreciate her beauty as much as I appreciate Karen Kenworthy for her programming skills and wit.

I think a REAL feminist would promote equality for all and would not try to look her worst.

 

[katautumn]

It's great this topic came up, as I am presently working on writing a book about the Feminist movement.

People have this misconception that feminists want to be men, that we hate men, that we dress like men, don't wear makeup, don't shave our legs, look hideously ugly, don't want to take responsibility for our actions. I say rubbish! Feminism is about being empowered. It doesn't mean suddenly becoming a lesbian, shaving your head and wanting to set men on fire. I happen to love men, but I don't need them. If dressing sexy makes you feel empowered, then no one should ever question whether or not you're a "true feminist". Feminism isn't some special cult where we have to all look and act and speak and think the same. That's what is so beautiful about being a feminist! We revel in our individuality as women, sisters together with a common bond.

Women have every right to have sex with as many men (or no men at all), even if they are not in a position to feesibly and confidently bear children. Reproductive freedom is so much more than abortion. The right to have an abortion is such a small part of the larger picture. It's merely a stone in our path to equality. We fight to keep abortion legal not because we advocate flagrant abuse of feminine sexuality. We fight because once they take away our right to have children or not have children, what other rights can they take away? Our right to obtain birth control? Our right to be informed about sexual matters? Our right to be anything except a housewife and mother? For centuries, women have been underminded by men. For centuries, men have told us that women aren't competent enough to be literate. Women aren't competent enough to receive an education. Women aren't competent enough to work outside the home. Women aren't competent enough to go to college. Women aren't competent enough to own or manage a business. Women aren't competent enough to play sports. Women aren't competent enough to vote. Women aren't competent enough to drive a car. Women aren't competent enough make decisions regarding something so personal as her reproductive health.

Our sexuality and our reproductive functions are the very essence of what makes us women. We have the ability to do one thing that men cannot do - and that is get pregnant and give birth. It's the one mystery of our lives that cannot be taken away and men find that threatening - not because they actually want to be pregnant or experience giving birth - but because it is the one area of our lives that is solely ours and they cannot control.

The stereotypical feminist, as I mentioned in my opening paragraph, was created and has been perpetuated by men who are threatened by the thought of the advancement of women and thus losing their grip on our lives. These insecure men do not want to believe that a woman can be a self-reliant feminist and still be sexually desirable. It's much more comforting to create an image for feminists that shows them as being the type of woman they wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. After all, how many men would seek out a woman with hairy legs and a shaved head who hates men? The real threat comes into play when they see a woman who is attractive, obtainable and doesn't need them.

 

[momalle1]

The stereotypical feminist, as I mentioned in my opening paragraph, was created and has been perpetuated by men who are threatened by the thought of the advancement of women and thus losing their grip on our lives. These insecure men do not want to believe that a woman can be a self-reliant feminist and still be sexually desirable. It's much more comforting to create an image for feminists that shows them as being the type of woman they wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. After all, how many men would seek out a woman with hairy legs and a shaved head who hates men? The real threat comes into play when they see a woman who is attractive, obtainable and doesn't need them.

I think this is the best paragraph. You're 100% right. While there are men that want a push-over, most do not. The men that want push-overs aren't secure in themselves. I always tell my wife, and my daughter, it is far better for someone to help you, or do something for you because they want to, not because they have to. I find a woman that can do well without me more attractive, when she is with me, it's because she wants to be, not because she depends on me. A man and a woman should only HAVE to depend on each other emotionally, everything else will follow.

 

[Aimee30]

I don't meaqn that we should dress in in brown plain dresses that are ankle length with no ornamentation. I meant, what is the obsession with low cut tops, short skirts, see through blouses, etc.--that accentuate the look of "come and get it." You can look attractive without going to that extreme.
And mostly what I think I should be getting out of this is women make their own choices under feminism.
Though I wonder about those in the movement that put sexuality on display--I think it's asking for trouble. I mean--well it may be a beautiful thing, but usually in private and not in your face style. However, I think you are saying these types are few correct?

 

[SallyNow]

I don't meaqn that we should dress in in brown plain dresses that are ankle length with no ornamentation. I meant, what is the obsession with low cut tops, short skirts, see through blouses, etc.--that accentuate the look of "come and get it." You can look attractive without going to that extreme.

Sex sells.
Selling brings money.
Money makes the world go 'round.

And mostly what I think I should be getting out of this is women make their own choices under feminism.

Yup.

Though I wonder about those in the movement that put sexuality on display--I think it's asking for trouble. I mean--well it may be a beautiful thing, but usually in private and not in your face style. However, I think you are saying these types are few correct?

It may interest you to know that some early feminists in the late 1800's and early 1900's actually did believe that women could say "no" to being sexy, and should. Also, they believed that aborton should be illegal because it allowed men to say "just have sex with me; you can always get an abortion" (it wasn't enough for a woman to say "no"...their opinions didn't have to be respected, as often they were considered to be worth little)
http://www.feministsforlife.org/history/foremoth.htm
Also the book "Inventing Women: Science, Technology and Gender" (a very good, solid, interesting read)

 

[xAtheistx]

There should not be a feminist movement.

More importantly, there should not be the need for a feminist movement.

Humanity makes me sad.

 

[loriersea]

Just as a general comment, feminism is NOT about what women should or shouldn't wear, or who they should or shouldn't sleep with. Feminism, as a real social and theoretical movement, is concerned with power. It is concerned with the way that power is distributed in unequal, hierarchical ways in our society, and seeks to create a more just society where power is no longer used to oppress and repress. It has nothing to do with whether or not a woman chooses to wear a short skirt or not.

I also think some femenism allowing women to work equally as men has almost forced families to take on 2 incomes to live comfortably.

That is NOT the fault of feminism. The fact is, working-class families have needed two incomes since industralization moved work from the home to the factory. The problem is that more jobs are now paying less, not that feminists made it okay for women to work. To blame feminists for a phenomena that is the fault of corporate capitalism is just wrong.

 

[Koz]

Why are feminists afraid of sex?

 

[jak]

You're mostly concerned about why women who profess feminism dress in revealing clothes?

As many noted, all don't. Christian feminists, for instance, (women ones, there are plenty of feminist men, too!) probably dress more or less the same as other Christian women.

True, some women in media, the movies and so on may dress seductively, and I agree that while it goes with the aim to give freedom to women, it doesn't really fit in with the feminist movement's aim to bring dignity and equality to women. By revealing their bodies, they are actually silently siding with the biased sexist view that women...not men...are sex objects and a woman's feminity is defined by how pretty her face, how perfect her make-up, and how "sexy" her body is. They are actually re-inforcing that gender stereotype. Men are not defined that way. When did you last see a man wearing a low cut top or skin-tight pants?!

 

[katautumn]

Why are feminists afraid of sex?

Feminists aren't afraid of sex. As I said in my first response, men have perpetuated these vicious lies about feminists being ugly, frigid lesbians. Now, I'm sure there are many feminists who became feminists because they were victimized by a man at some point in their life whether it was incest, molestation, sexual harassment, rape, etc. When anyone is abused and victimized sexually, especially if it occurs at a young age, it distorts their mentality toward sex. But this is a personal and individual psychological issue, not a feminist issue.

 

[Moros]

>>> What is 'real feminism'?

Embracing traditional gender roles. IMO, there's no femininity more proud than the wife and mother. This isn't to say that women shouldn't take part in "modern" activities which have replaced antiquated and downright irrationally repressive mindsets, but it makes no sense to me to ignore your biology in favor of social constructions.

 

[Marie D]

I think feminism is the secular delusion that men and women are equal, as opposed to the Godly truth that we're of equal value before the Lord, but also different and complementary.