LDS Reading Doctrine and Covenants 88

[Rescued One]

Forgive me for not being precise in my post. I thought I'd made that clear in other posts I'd made and that you would understand it was inferred -- my apologies for not being clear enough for you. In fact, to take your comment a step further, from what I have read, not all Mormons who are exalted (go to the Celestial Kingdom) will necessarily become gods.

You are mistaken. Exaltation is the same as having become a god. Those who reach the two lower levels of the CK are not exalted.

 

[mmksparbud]

I did quite a while ago, just in the original thread (which is now closed). I believe I may have added to my comment later, going into more detail, that Section 88 deals solely with what happens at the time of the resurrection, and has nothing to do with becoming "god" -- which Mormons don't believe they "automatically" attain with the resurrection but is something they have to work and progress toward.

As I said---and I may have replied to someone else--what length of time it takes to become equal with God doesn't matter---the point is that they teach we become equal to God and it says it right there in 107. The rest of the passages do not seem to indicate anything else. And if you are in the realm of exaltation--you only go there if you are as God, and you can not go from on realm into another. You go to where you are to stay. So how can you be in exaltation--which is godhood--and then grow into a God?

 

[devin553344]

When in doubt, go to the source that is published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Don't take my word for it --- read their words for it:

D&C 88:107. The Saints Will Be Filled with God’s Glory and “Be Made Equal with Him”

The sons and daughters of God possess the potential to become like their parents.

Elder Parley P. Pratt said: “Every man who is eventually made perfect—raised from the dead and filled, or quickened, with a fulness of celestial glory—will become like them in every respect, physically and in intellect, attributes, or powers.


“The very germs of these godlike attributes being engendered in man, the offspring of Deity, only need cultivating, improving, developing, and advancing by means of a series of progressive changes, in order to arrive at the fountain ‘Head,’ the standard, the climax of Divine Humanity.” (Key to the Science of Theology,p. 20.)
The Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, copyright 1981, p. 204
Section 88, The Olive Leaf

Well Mormons can't be equal to my God, maybe their own or something. But mine is too great

 

[Ironhold]

I think what is amazing to me is that, with all I didn't disagree with and how that discredits Mormonism, I somehow must be a Mormon and not Christian and am defending Mormonism. Not sure how any of that makes sense.

It's not the first time I've seen it happen.

So many people within the Christian counter-cult seem to think that only members of a "cult" will rise to defend that "cult" against criticism that when someone who isn't steps up the automatic presumption is that the someone is a sock puppet, spy, or traitor.

This is why people who try to reform the movement are so often dismissed out-of-hand and why so much material that is false and even hateful is still in circulation decade after decade.

 

[Dale]

When in doubt, go to the source that is published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Don't take my word for it --- read their words for it:

D&C 88:107. The Saints Will Be Filled with God’s Glory and “Be Made Equal with Him”

The sons and daughters of God possess the potential to become like their parents.

Elder Parley P. Pratt said: “Every man who is eventually made perfect—raised from the dead and filled, or quickened, with a fulness of celestial glory—will become like them in every respect, physically and in intellect, attributes, or powers.


“The very germs of these godlike attributes being engendered in man, the offspring of Deity, only need cultivating, improving, developing, and advancing by means of a series of progressive changes, in order to arrive at the fountain ‘Head,’ the standard, the climax of Divine Humanity.” (Key to the Science of Theology,p. 20.)
The Doctrine and Covenants Student Manual, Published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, copyright 1981, p. 204
Section 88, The Olive Leaf

Does this celestial glory apply equally to men and women?

It is my understanding of Mormonism that the men reign and rule in heaven while the women do not.

 

[Ironhold]

Does this celestial glory apply equally to men and women?

Not only is it equal, it's impossible to achieve outside of a family unit.

That is, as husband and wife.

Both spouses will have the right to reject the other if they were unrighteous in life, with the spouses doing the rejecting and those who didn't marry due to no fault of their own will have the opportunity to seek others to be with, at which point the resurrection will take place and everything else will go from there.

 

[BigDaddy4]

Not only is it equal, it's impossible to achieve outside of a family unit.

That is, as husband and wife.

By extension, you will have to admit that God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit are all married. Or they are not exalted. Or your religion just makes things up...

 

[Rescued One]

Does this celestial glory apply equally to men and women?

It is my understanding of Mormonism that the men reign and rule in heaven while the women do not.

If one is exalted, it is done as a couple. However, the wife or wives are always obedient to the Priesthood authority. Their jobs are in the home with the children.

 

[Rescued One]

By extension, you will have to admit that God the Father, God the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit are all married. Or they are not exalted. Or your religion just makes things up...

This is never explained. The "Holy Ghost" (LDS version) has no physical or resurrected body. There is no marrying in heaven --- the marriage/sealing has to take place in an LDS temple on earth.

 

[Rescued One]

Christian critics (those who are truly Christian) never write hateful literature. They will not bear false witness.

 

[Dale]

Not only is it equal, it's impossible to achieve outside of a family unit.

That is, as husband and wife.

Both spouses will have the right to reject the other if they were unrighteous in life, with the spouses doing the rejecting and those who didn't marry due to no fault of their own will have the opportunity to seek others to be with, at which point the resurrection will take place and everything else will go from there.

This is never explained. The "Holy Ghost" (LDS version) has no physical or resurrected body. There is no marrying in heaven --- the marriage/sealing has to take place in an LDS temple on earth.

Phoebe Ann,
Yes, it has always been my understanding that the sealing has to be done at a Temple on earth. In fact, that is the most important reason the LDS church builds Temples as opposed to churches or stakehouses. It is consistent with what has been reported in the press in Florida. There was an instance of a young LDS couple where she was murdered before they could be married. He believed that their union, their marriage, had been destroyed "forever."

In post #26, Ironhold contradicts this view, but I don't know what church documents he is thinking of.

 

[Rescued One]

I do not believe SimplyMe is a Mormon. However, she has some knowledge of their religion and doesn't approve of anyone confronting them. Exposing their teachings is not finding fault with them as individuals, IMO. I am not angry with Mormons and hope they will be polite and address the questions of non-Mormons; however, they are told to not discuss certain topics and to not engage in debate. I would say that their hands are basically tied.

 

[Rescued One]

Phoebe Ann,
Yes, it has always been my understanding that the sealing has to be done at a Temple on earth. In fact, that is the most important reason the LDS church builds Temples as opposed to churches or stakehouses. It is consistent with what has been reported in the press in Florida. There was an instance of a young LDS couple where she was murdered before they could be married. He believed that their union, their marriage, had been destroyed "forever."

In post #26, Ironhold contradicts this view, but I don't know what church documents he is thinking of.

The couple can be sealed by proxy. I don't know if that sealing takes place while he is alive or not. He is free to marry another woman and be sealed to that woman if they are both worthy Latter-day Saints. IOW, a man can can be sealed to another wife, if his first wife dies.

 

[Ironhold]

Phoebe Ann,
Yes, it has always been my understanding that the sealing has to be done at a Temple on earth. In fact, that is the most important reason the LDS church builds Temples as opposed to churches or stakehouses. It is consistent with what has been reported in the press in Florida. There was an instance of a young LDS couple where she was murdered before they could be married. He believed that their union, their marriage, had been destroyed "forever."

In post #26, Ironhold contradicts this view, but I don't know what church documents he is thinking of.

You ignore that the theology allows for vicarious sealings.

 

[Dale]

You ignore that the theology allows for vicarious sealings.

Your statement that unmarried people in the LDS celestial place can find a partner and get married puzzles me. This sounds like Swedenborgian doctrine. I have always suspected that Joseph Smith was influenced by the writing sof Immanuel Swedenborg.

 

[drstevej]

You ignore that the theology allows for vicarious sealings.

Document this statement

 

[Ironhold]

Document this statement

Vicarious Work

1st Google result. Seriously.

Vicarious sealings are indeed a thing, though they are (from what I understand) almost exclusively used to seal a person's ancestors so that they have the option of accepting the sealing and everything that goes with it.

Don't believe me?

Chapter 17: Sealing Power and Temple Blessings

Elijah’s keys were greater than that. They were the keys of sealing, and those keys of sealing pertain to the living and embrace the dead who are willing to repent.

I'm surprised you didn't know about this already.

 

[drstevej]

What is the Biblical support for Elijah's keys?

 

[mmksparbud]

What is the Biblical support for Elijah's keys?

And just how many sets of keys re there??

 

[Ironhold]

What is the Biblical support for Elijah's keys?

How about we get back to you not knowing about vicarious sealings?

As far as Elijah goes, consider this passage in Malachi 4 -

5 ¶ Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the Lord:

6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

The theology holds that "turning the hearts of the fathers" (et cetra) is, among other things, a reference to not only sealing but genealogy and vicarious works.

This was confirmed by D&C 110, wherein he's the one who returns and commits those keys to Joseph Smith -> Doctrine and Covenants 110 .

So there ya have it.