Re: the Revelation 12 "sign" in the sky

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I disagree based on the Revelation 12 itself, which is clearly communicating Joseph's dream in which Jacob is the sun and Rachel is the moon. The woman Is the nation Israel which became a nation through Jacob's 12 sons from which the 12 tribes of Israel are descended. The woman is "clothed with the sun and the moon"...Jacob and Rachel!

You disagree - OK, but only One Woman, after the Flood, is a The Queen of Paradise (the new Eve) and it is only Sarah, the wife of Abraham, the One who gave birth to a promise son - Isaac (the image of Christ). Only for Sarah could be said to carry the whole people of Israel - symbolized by "the Sun, Moon and the 12 stars" - the House of Jacob. Again, Sarah, through Mary, gave birth to "the male child" - Jesus Christ, who has the rule of all the nations with a rod of iron. In the New Testament only those born in the Spirit are the descendants of Abraham, the children of Sarah (see Galatians 4: 22-31). Revelation continues to transfer the Covenant blessings from the children of Abraham in the flesh to the children of Abram (and Sarah) by the Spirit; from Israel to the Church of Christ; from the Great Prostitute - to the true Bride; from the earth city of Jerusalem to the Heavenly City of Jerusalem...
 
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There are many people who have been using stellar alignments to prove some date for the rapture or tribulation. Revelation 12 is explained by movements of interstellar space bodies within the constellations.

My first thought is that God did say He set the objects for signs and determining the date.
But...those constellations, that is the shape of objects on earth, were created by the Greeks about 3,000 years ago. That would have been in a time where God didn't appear to be all that active with Israel, let alone the Greeks.

Should we pay any attention to the constellations at all?

In ancient times a great wonder in heaven was considered the catastrophic appearance of a planet Venus that has so far approached the Earth that it has become enormous (too large), brightly illuminated (like the Sun), a sphere of heaven (the all-seeing eye of God) closer to Earth than this on the Moon. This is the very old Islamic symbol - star / planet against the Moon.
In ancient Egypt there was a belief that the emergence of the bird of Phoenix (coming Comet or planet Venus) over the city of Heliopolis brought a new cycle (еpoch; era) of world peace. Or the beginning of a new "golden age."
The Israelites associate the comet of Venus with the events in Egypt and the conquest of the promised land. In a sense, Venus was the "mother" of Israel, who "carried" the Jewish nation and gave birth to it by dissolving the Red Sea's womb.
 
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Root of Jesse

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What do you mean?
Which part of what I said don't you understand? There are more than one sense of Scripture. So not only does it signify the nation of Israel, it also signifies what I said it does. It's not either/or.
 
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LastSeven

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Which part of what I said don't you understand? There are more than one sense of Scripture. So not only does it signify the nation of Israel, it also signifies what I said it does. It's not either/or.
So, you're saying the woman is also an actual "woman clothed with the sun"?
 
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Root of Jesse

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I'm assuming you mean Mary, but what does "clothed with the sun" look like?
That's a question better asked of St. John, though it seems like Mary revealed herself this way at Fatima and Guadalupe.
 
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ebedmelech

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You disagree - OK, but only One Woman, after the Flood, is a The Queen of Paradise (the new Eve) and it is only Sarah, the wife of Abraham, the One who gave birth to a promise son - Isaac (the image of Christ). Only for Sarah could be said to carry the whole people of Israel - symbolized by "the Sun, Moon and the 12 stars" - the House of Jacob. Again, Sarah, through Mary, gave birth to "the male child" - Jesus Christ, who has the rule of all the nations with a rod of iron. In the New Testament only those born in the Spirit are the descendants of Abraham, the children of Sarah (see Galatians 4: 22-31). Revelation continues to transfer the Covenant blessings from the children of Abraham in the flesh to the children of Abram (and Sarah) by the Spirit; from Israel to the Church of Christ; from the Great Prostitute - to the true Bride; from the earth city of Jerusalem to the Heavenly City of Jerusalem...
The key problem in your view is it departs from what the focus of Revelation 12 is because the passage opens saying a SIGN appeared in heaven, and then it describes the sign. You don't have to look far for the sign because it's right there in Joseph's dream.

Your point is well taken of Abraham and Sarah because we know Isaac is the line through whom the "SEED of promise", which is Christ, would come. Keep in mind though...that God calls Israel "Jacob", synonymous with the fact that it is Jacob from whom 12 sons descend which is the birth of the nation "Israel". God changed Jacob's name to Israel...not Abraham.

Genesis 32:22-32!
 
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The key problem in your view is it departs from what the focus of Revelation 12 is because the passage opens saying a SIGN appeared in heaven, and then it describes the sign. You don't have to look far for the sign because it's right there in Joseph's dream.

Your point is well taken of Abraham and Sarah because we know Isaac is the line through whom the "SEED of promise", which is Christ, would come. Keep in mind though...that God calls Israel "Jacob", synonymous with the fact that it is Jacob from whom 12 sons descend which is the birth of the nation "Israel". God changed Jacob's name to Israel...not Abraham.

Genesis 32:22-32!

Rachel, the wife of Jacob, is part of Joseph's dream. Rachel was The Moon in that dream. The Woman in the Book of Revelation 12 is a universal symbol of God's people, of the promised descendant of Abraham and Sarah - Isaac, through Rebekah, through Leah and Rachel, through Mary, to the True Descendant - Jesus Christ and to His true people - His Church in the New Testament.
 
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keras

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Revelation 12 passage describes a woman, a child, and a dragon. A superficial reading of the text instantly brings to mind Mary, Christ, and Satan, who are certainly significant, prophetic types, but there is more to it than that.
The sign represents both individuals in a historical context, but also larger, corporate entities. Biblical scholars have always understood the woman to represent Mary as an individual and corporately the nation of Israel. Likewise, the dragon clearly represents Satan as an individual and also the entire world system opposed to God. However, while the same scholars have observed that the male child is a symbol of Christ, they've missed the pattern. Just as the woman and dragon have corporate meanings, the male child does, too - it is the collective body of Christ. 1 Corinthians 12:12
 
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ebedmelech

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Rachel, the wife of Jacob, is part of Joseph's dream. Rachel was The Moon in that dream. The Woman in the Book of Revelation 12 is a universal symbol of God's people, of the promised descendant of Abraham and Sarah - Isaac, through Rebekah, through Leah and Rachel, through Mary, to the True Descendant - Jesus Christ and to His true people - His Church in the New Testament.
I'm going to show you the bible will give you the answer if you allow it to. The sign in Rev 12:1-2 is seen before only in Joseph's dream in Genesis 37:9-11. At verse 10 Jacob, having understood the dream says:
"Shall I and your mother and your brothers actually come to bow ourselves down before you to the ground?”

Clearly Jacob understands the sun is him, the moon is Rachel, the 11 stars were Joseph's brothers.

Now...take it another step...when Herod killed the children in Matthew 2 attempting to kill Jesus, Matthew quotes from Jeremiah 31:15 at Matthew 2:18:

18 “A voice was heard in Ramah, Weeping and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children;
And she refused to be comforted, Because they were no more.”

Rachel is weeping for HER CHILDREN which are descended from her, Leah, and Jacob, which again shows from scripture Israel is considered to be from Jacob and Rachel.

When it comes to Abraham...ALL believers are descended from him! They are those from MANY NATIONS that God made of Abraham the Father of, as He promised Abraham in Genesis 17. Romans 4 makes that very clear.

The bible explains itself if we let it. The Revelation 12:1-2 vision is describing Israel from whom Christ our Messiah would come to first!

It can't be any clearer.
 
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