Re: the Revelation 12 "sign" in the sky

[Riberra]

b. Jesus teaches the suddenness of the second coming (like a thief/ no signs, warnings, announcements).

Revelation 16:15-17 is about the moment of the Coming of Jesus as a thief in the night ....
What it means is that it will be too late for the sinners ...[all those with the mark who will have worship the Beast] their destruction will be near ...few hours

Please don't take this as an insult, but its no wonder you both confuse Matthew 24:29-33 pictorial type language when you can't get Revelation right since its chalk full of that type of talk.

Yet,the Second Coming of Jesus will be seen by everyone still alive and remain in those times ...
Matthew 24:27-31
27For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.

29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

 

[pc_home]

All one needs to do is read Genesis 37 to get what's happening in Revelation 12

*The moon and the sun are Jacob and Rachel

*The 12 stars are Joseph and his brothers. From them come the nation of Israel.

*The red dragon is Satan, he took 1/3rd of the angels in his fall. Here, he's trying trying to keep the Lord Jesus from being born as Israels promised Messiah. In Matthew 2:13-23 this is quite vivid.

*Christ is born and completes His mission as OUR SAVIOUR, and ascends to heaven and is Seated at the right hand of the Father!

That is point of Revelation 12:1-5 in apocalyptic language. The rest of the chapter is the church being born in Jerusalem, then the gospel going to the Gentiles and both enduring Satan's persecution.

Symbolic - The "woman" is Sarah, the mother of the covenant people.

 

[keras]

Symbolic - The "woman" is Sarah, the mother of the covenant people.

Actually Rachael and Leah are the mothers of the twelve sons/tribes of Jacob/Israel.

The 'woman' of Rev 12 is plainly a symbol for national Israel, specifically for Judah, the Royal line of David, that produced Jesus. The One who will rule with a rod of iron - for the Millennium.

But Revelation 12:6-17 changes the symbolism from a national Israel to a spiritual Israel, to the people who are followers of that male child, to all the Christians, from every race, nation and language.
About half of them will be taken to safety during the Great Tribulation, but some must stay, as verse 17 says. Why there are two groups of Christians, is explained in Daniel 11:32. They are also seen in Zechariah 14:2

 

[Root of Jesse]

I see. Well if you are just declaring it so without evidence, then it must be true.

My evidence comes from the Fathers of the Christian Church.

 

[SeventyOne]

My evidence comes from the Fathers of the Christian Church.

What evidence did they have that made the male child sound like it was Jesus? Because the scripture sure doesn't make it sound that way.

 

[Root of Jesse]

What evidence did they have that made the male child sound like it was Jesus? Because the scripture sure doesn't make it sound that way.

The Fathers of the Church were students of the apostles. Their understanding comes from the author.

 

[FrankDux]

Except Mesopotamian used a nominal precession length of 25,920 years

so, no

 

[SeventyOne]

The Fathers of the Church were students of the apostles. Their understanding comes from the author.

So does mine. How did they come to the understanding that it is Jesuswhen it's not Jesus then?

 

[Root of Jesse]

So does mine. How did they come to the understanding that it is Jesuswhen it's not Jesus then?

If it's not about Jesus, why bother to try to understand it?

 

[SeventyOne]

If it's not about Jesus, why bother to try to understand it?

Because it's about the Church, His bride. Don't you think that's important too?

 

[FrankDux]

Lol

Your " mispar gadol " gematria bases are assigned from the trivial repdigit set:

{ 111,222,333,444,555,666,777,888,999 }

Sum = 4995

First, 9 letters
Second, 9 letters
Third, 4 letters + 5 sofit forms

Sum = 4995

The entire system was handed down all the way from the Sumerians

And, btw, although you may not " be an expert at ancient calculations " , perhaps you would be familiar with this little quote

Rabbi Eleazar Chisma said: the laws of mixed bird offerings and the key to the calculations of menstruation days—these, these are the body of the halakhah. The calculation of the equinoxes and gematria are the desserts of wisdom.

 

[Root of Jesse]

Because it's about the Church, His bride. Don't you think that's important too?

You're right, on one level. There are four levels of Scripture interpretation, though. Very important when reading apocalyptic literature. The woman, on one level, is the Church. But on another level, it's Mary.

 

[pc_home]

Except Mesopotamian used a nominal precession length of 25,920 years

so, no

Other studies give 25,872 years.

Planetary Alignments
The Precession of the Equinoxes was mentioned earlier and warrants more consideration now. The precession describes the journey of our solar system through the Milky Way galaxy, which takes about 25,872 years. This is called a Great Year. Dividing the Great Year by the 12 signs of the astrological zodiac that the solar system transits, approximately 2,160 years are spent in each sign. This is described as an age. According to current understanding, Earth has been passing from the Piscean to the Aquarian Age. Alan Oken’s Complete Astrology says the two World Ages leading up to the Piscean-Aquarian cusp belong to a previous Great Year, which began about 28,000 years ago and represents another, completed, phase of human evolution. This view coincides with that of Blavatsky and Steiner. Vestiges of the Lemurian and Atlantean civilizations still populated Earth during that time, Oken says. Atlantean man was highly clairvoyant, much more in direct contact with cosmic forces and more conscious of his relationship to other kingdoms of nature.

see
In Search of a Perfect World

 

[Riberra]

d

 

[Riberra]

----------------

"Or the Name of the Beast" - Rev. 15: 2 (cf. Rev. 20: 4) shows that the name is that of the Beast of the Sea [perhaps John makes a connection with the name Nero Kesar] (see Rev. 13: 1-8; 17: 8-11).

Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads...

Can you identify the SEVEN HEADS of the Beast ?

Do you know that the Beast that the World will worship will be ONE of the 7 HEADS --the "one" that will be wounded at the Head ?

Revelation 13
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: AND ALL THE WORLD WONDERED after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

...
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

[FrankDux]

Other studies give 25,872 years.

Planetary Alignments
The Precession of the Equinoxes was mentioned earlier and warrants more consideration now. The precession describes the journey of our solar system through the Milky Way galaxy, which takes about 25,872 years. This is called a Great Year. Dividing the Great Year by the 12 signs of the astrological zodiac that the solar system transits, approximately 2,160 years are spent in each sign. This is described as an age. According to current understanding, Earth has been passing from the Piscean to the Aquarian Age. Alan Oken’s Complete Astrology says the two World Ages leading up to the Piscean-Aquarian cusp belong to a previous Great Year, which began about 28,000 years ago and represents another, completed, phase of human evolution. This view coincides with that of Blavatsky and Steiner. Vestiges of the Lemurian and Atlantean civilizations still populated Earth during that time, Oken says. Atlantean man was highly clairvoyant, much more in direct contact with cosmic forces and more conscious of his relationship to other kingdoms of nature.

In Search of a Perfect World

Sir, I am getting the impression you do not understand what " nominal " time is, or why it's used with the calendars ?

1 month = 29 and 13753 / 25,920 days

1 full precession = 25,920 years

1 full day = 25,920 chelekim


I would suggest you start with the basic Wikipedia article on Mesopotamian metrology and move on from there

 

[pc_home]

Revelation 13:1
And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads...

Can you identify the SEVEN HEADS of the Beast ?

Do you know that the Beast that the World will worship will be ONE of the 7 HEADS --the "one" that will be wounded at the Head ?

Revelation 13
13 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: AND ALL THE WORLD WONDERED after the beast.

4 And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?

5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

...
8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

That the beast in Rev.13: 1-7 is modeled primarily on Daniel 7: 3-7. This beast is a generalized image of the whole pagan Beast (Lion with one head; Bear with one head; Leopard with four heads and Beast with one head and ten horns = 7 heads and 10 horns in total); Image of Rome. The ancient Babylon was mortally wounded (see Jeremiah 51: 8-11). But in the image of Rome, Babylon resurrected from the dead. Babylon appeared again - Rome was his reincarnation in history.

 

[Riberra]

That the beast in Rev.13: 1-7 is modeled primarily on Daniel 7: 3-7. This beast is a generalized image of the whole pagan Beast (Lion with one head; Bear with one head; Leopard with four heads and Beast with one head and ten horns = 7 heads and 10 horns in total); Image of Rome. The ancient Babylon was mortally wounded (see Jeremiah 51: 8-11). But in the image of Rome, Babylon resurrected from the dead. Babylon appeared again - Rome was his reincarnation in history.

I see the Beast of Revelation 13:1-2 as being Daniel 7:7 description of the Fourth Beast [a KINGDOM] different [diverse/more powerful] than the other 3 Kingdoms described by Daniel ...from which the Little Horn will emerge Daniel 7:8.That is the Little Horn that will be wounded at the head Revelation 13:3-5...

 

[ebedmelech]

Symbolic - The "woman" is Sarah, the mother of the covenant people.

I disagree based on the Revelation 12 itself, which is clearly communicating Joseph's dream in which Jacob is the sun and Rachel is the moon. The woman Is the nation Israel which became a nation through Jacob's 12 sons from which the 12 tribes of Israel are descended. The woman is "clothed with the sun and the moon"...Jacob and Rachel!

 

[ebedmelech]

Isn't Revelations a vision, and therefore symbolic? Why do we assume that the bit about the sign being in the sky is literal?

Is that not how God communicates prophetically...through visions, signs, and symbols?

Revelation is a prophetic vision given to John...Rev 1:1.