Re: the Revelation 12 "sign" in the sky

[Shempster]

There are many people who have been using stellar alignments to prove some date for the rapture or tribulation. Revelation 12 is explained by movements of interstellar space bodies within the constellations.

My first thought is that God did say He set the objects for signs and determining the date.
But...those constellations, that is the shape of objects on earth, were created by the Greeks about 3,000 years ago. That would have been in a time where God didn't appear to be all that active with Israel, let alone the Greeks.

Should we pay any attention to the constellations at all?

 

[Halbhh]

No, not constellations, in my opinion, which are only random associations people made up. The signs in the sky I think (my guess) will be clearly visible (in clear skies that are dark enough), not tricky to know if they are happening, but more pronounced, noticeable like a bright comet or lunar eclipse are noticeable, or other clear changes of even novel kinds. My guess is such signs will make the popular level news, though of course it's possible they could be less obvious so that only astronomers would be noticing and amazed or such. By itself many possible astronomical signs wouldn't necessarily tell you a lot (if they are phenomena like have previously happened such as supernovae), but if in combination with other signs, other leaves on the tree, then it's more something to investigate or become aware and read more. If the heavenly signs though are not understood though, not merely lots of sunspots, seemingly known stuff, but instead unknown stuff, truly new, then it's a far sharper warning. My feeling is these signs will not be routine at all, not common like an eclipse or such.

 

[Root of Jesse]

There are many people who have been using stellar alignments to prove some date for the rapture or tribulation. Revelation 12 is explained by movements of interstellar space bodies within the constellations.

My first thought is that God did say He set the objects for signs and determining the date.
But...those constellations, that is the shape of objects on earth, were created by the Greeks about 3,000 years ago. That would have been in a time where God didn't appear to be all that active with Israel, let alone the Greeks.

Should we pay any attention to the constellations at all?

3000 years ago, David was king of Israel. God was evident in the time of David. We can pay attention to constellations, but for what purpose? To tell time? yeah. To discern what your horoscope says or what the sky portents for your near future? No.

 

[Root of Jesse]

There are many people who have been using stellar alignments to prove some date for the rapture or tribulation. Revelation 12 is explained by movements of interstellar space bodies within the constellations.

My first thought is that God did say He set the objects for signs and determining the date.
But...those constellations, that is the shape of objects on earth, were created by the Greeks about 3,000 years ago. That would have been in a time where God didn't appear to be all that active with Israel, let alone the Greeks.

Should we pay any attention to the constellations at all?

The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars is said to be Mary, who bore the child early in Chapter 13, which was Jesus.

 

[Shempster]

The woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of 12 stars is said to be Mary, who bore the child early in Chapter 13, which was Jesus.

The only thing is, John said the sign appeared in HEAVEN. So this cannot be referring to Mary.
It sounds just like a star alignment to me. But remember, this post is questioning the whole stellar theory

 

[Another Lazarus]

There are many people who have been using stellar alignments to prove

So thats what John saw in the Book of Revelation ?

 

[Another Lazarus]

It happened in 2015, the youtube prophets came up with that date
They repeated that date again massively in 2016
Now they come up with a spectacular story of heavenly sign.

STILL THE DATE REMAINS THE SAME










The All Seeing Cat says he sees no signs of interstellar space Bacon


May Jesus bless you all HalleluYAH

 

[SeventyOne]

There are many people who have been using stellar alignments to prove some date for the rapture or tribulation. Revelation 12 is explained by movements of interstellar space bodies within the constellations.

My first thought is that God did say He set the objects for signs and determining the date.
But...those constellations, that is the shape of objects on earth, were created by the Greeks about 3,000 years ago. That would have been in a time where God didn't appear to be all that active with Israel, let alone the Greeks.

Should we pay any attention to the constellations at all?

The constellations are mentioned in Job, 2 Kings, Isaiah and Amos. They predate the Greeks.

 

[ebedmelech]

All one needs to do is read Genesis 37 to get what's happening in Revelation 12

*The moon and the sun are Jacob and Rachel

*The 12 stars are Joseph and his brothers. From them come the nation of Israel.

*The red dragon is Satan, he took 1/3rd of the angels in his fall. Here, he's trying trying to keep the Lord Jesus from being born as Israels promised Messiah. In Matthew 2:13-23 this is quite vivid.

*Christ is born and completes His mission as OUR SAVIOUR, and ascends to heaven and is Seated at the right hand of the Father!

That is point of Revelation 12:1-5 in apocalyptic language. The rest of the chapter is the church being born in Jerusalem, then the gospel going to the Gentiles and both enduring Satan's persecution.

 

[Revealing Times]

The only thing is, John said the sign appeared in HEAVEN. So this cannot be referring to Mary.
It sounds just like a star alignment to me. But remember, this post is questioning the whole stellar theory

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

John was transported in the Spirit to Heaven, he saw all the Visions in Heaven, a sign is a Vision.

The Woman is Israel, not Mary or the Church, Genesis 37:9 tells us this.

As per this supposed "Sign" everyone is speaking of I would think you know what Virgo, Jupiter and Venus is of......Virgo is the sixth sign of the zodiac, to be exact

You are all looking to Astrology, no matter how many times thy lie to you and tell you its Astronomy. And God forbid us from looking to Divination. This came from Babylon and is if Satan.

Divinatory basis
The history of Babylonian astrology shows the development of astronomical knowledge within the context of divination. A collection of 32 tablets with inscribed liver models, dating from about 1875 BC, are the oldest known detailed texts of Babylonian divination, and these demonstrate the same interpretational format as that employed in celestial omen analysis.[6] Blemishes and marks found on the liver of the sacrificial animal were interpreted as symbolic signs which presented messages from the gods to the king.

Planets and gods
Further information: Babylonian calendar
Of the planets five were recognized—Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Mercury and Mars—to name them in the order in which they appear in the older cuneiform literature; in later texts Mercury and Saturn change places.

These five planets were identified with the gods of the Babylonian pantheon as follows:

• Jupiter with Marduk,
• Venus with the goddess Ishtar,
• Saturn with Ninurta (Ninib),
• Mercury with Nabu (Nebo),
• Mars with Nergal.

The movements of the Sun, Moon and five planets were regarded as representing the activity of the five gods in question, together with the moon-god Sin and the Sun-god Shamash, in preparing the occurrences on earth. If, therefore, one could correctly read and interpret the activity of these powers, one knew what the gods were aiming to bring about.

System of Interpretation

The Babylonian priests accordingly applied themselves to the task of perfecting a system of interpretation of the phenomena to be observed in the heavens, and it was natural that the system was extended from the moon, sun and five planets to the more prominent and recognizable fixed stars.

The interpretations themselves were based (as in the case of divination through the liver) chiefly on two factors:

• 
  
  
  • On the recollection or on written records of what in the past had taken place when the phenomenon or phenomena in question had been observed.......

I am aghast Christians actually are looking to Astrology.

 

[keras]

I am aghast Christians actually are looking to Astrology.

What we are discussing is what the Bible tells us.
Revelation 12:1-5 is there for our edification and I agree with Ebed in #9
Jesus said that there would be signs in the heavens, Luke 21:25-26, and we Bible believers should be aware of forthcoming events, prepared both physically and spiritually for what will happen to us now; in the end times.

 

[SeventyOne]

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

John was transported in the Spirit to Heaven, he saw all the Visions in Heaven, a sign is a Vision.

The Woman is Israel, not Mary or the Church, Genesis 37:9 tells us this.

As per this supposed "Sign" everyone is speaking of I would think you know what Virgo, Jupiter and Venus is of......Virgo is the sixth sign of the zodiac, to be exact

You are all looking to Astrology, no matter how many times thy lie to you and tell you its Astronomy. And God forbid us from looking to Divination. This came from Babylon and is if Satan.

Divinatory basis
The history of Babylonian astrology shows the development of astronomical knowledge within the context of divination. A collection of 32 tablets with inscribed liver models, dating from about 1875 BC, are the oldest known detailed texts of Babylonian divination, and these demonstrate the same interpretational format as that employed in celestial omen analysis.[6] Blemishes and marks found on the liver of the sacrificial animal were interpreted as symbolic signs which presented messages from the gods to the king.

Planets and gods
Further information: Babylonian calendar
Of the planets five were recognized—Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Mercury and Mars—to name them in the order in which they appear in the older cuneiform literature; in later texts Mercury and Saturn change places.

These five planets were identified with the gods of the Babylonian pantheon as follows:

• Jupiter with Marduk,
• Venus with the goddess Ishtar,
• Saturn with Ninurta (Ninib),
• Mercury with Nabu (Nebo),
• Mars with Nergal.

The movements of the Sun, Moon and five planets were regarded as representing the activity of the five gods in question, together with the moon-god Sin and the Sun-god Shamash, in preparing the occurrences on earth. If, therefore, one could correctly read and interpret the activity of these powers, one knew what the gods were aiming to bring about.

System of Interpretation

The Babylonian priests accordingly applied themselves to the task of perfecting a system of interpretation of the phenomena to be observed in the heavens, and it was natural that the system was extended from the moon, sun and five planets to the more prominent and recognizable fixed stars.

The interpretations themselves were based (as in the case of divination through the liver) chiefly on two factors:

• 
  
  
  • On the recollection or on written records of what in the past had taken place when the phenomenon or phenomena in question had been observed.......

I am aghast Christians actually are looking to Astrology.

Astrology is just the corruption of the purpose of the heavens. It's the counterfeit to the real.

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

My first thought is that God did say He set the objects for signs and determining the date.
But...those constellations, that is the shape of objects on earth, were created by the Greeks about 3,000 years ago. That would have been in a time where God didn't appear to be all that active with Israel, let alone the Greeks.

Should we pay any attention to the constellations at all?

For the record, one of the most popular beliefs in Jewish culture around the time of Christ was that when the end drew near the stars would do impossible things. At the very least, the constellations would be in the sky at the wrong times and seasons. You might have the sun rising and setting at the wrong place, and that sort of thing. They believed that the whole world would be distraught by the irregularity. I'm not saying that this will necessarily be the case; they could easily be wrong, but it's a point worth noting. If they were right, or at least on the right track, then simply trying to use constellations to predict the future is entirely the wrong approach. The future would not be indicated by the stars being where we knew they would be, but, instead, it would be indicated by the stars not being where we thought they would be.

At the very least, it's the most interesting way of looking at it. Otherwise, it's not really a sign. Every sign from God mentioned in the Bible involved an event that would not normally have happened. Something unexpected and miraculous had to happen to be called a sign. Predictable stellar alignments are not a sign. They're just astrology.

 

[Shempster]

Rev. 15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

John was transported in the Spirit to Heaven, he saw all the Visions in Heaven, a sign is a Vision.

The Woman is Israel, not Mary or the Church, Genesis 37:9 tells us this.

As per this supposed "Sign" everyone is speaking of I would think you know what Virgo, Jupiter and Venus is of......Virgo is the sixth sign of the zodiac, to be exact

You are all looking to Astrology, no matter how many times thy lie to you and tell you its Astronomy. And God forbid us from looking to Divination. This came from Babylon and is if Satan.

Divinatory basis
The history of Babylonian astrology shows the development of astronomical knowledge within the context of divination. A collection of 32 tablets with inscribed liver models, dating from about 1875 BC, are the oldest known detailed texts of Babylonian divination, and these demonstrate the same interpretational format as that employed in celestial omen analysis.[6] Blemishes and marks found on the liver of the sacrificial animal were interpreted as symbolic signs which presented messages from the gods to the king.

Planets and gods
Further information: Babylonian calendar
Of the planets five were recognized—Jupiter, Venus, Saturn, Mercury and Mars—to name them in the order in which they appear in the older cuneiform literature; in later texts Mercury and Saturn change places.

These five planets were identified with the gods of the Babylonian pantheon as follows:

• Jupiter with Marduk,
• Venus with the goddess Ishtar,
• Saturn with Ninurta (Ninib),
• Mercury with Nabu (Nebo),
• Mars with Nergal.

The movements of the Sun, Moon and five planets were regarded as representing the activity of the five gods in question, together with the moon-god Sin and the Sun-god Shamash, in preparing the occurrences on earth. If, therefore, one could correctly read and interpret the activity of these powers, one knew what the gods were aiming to bring about.

System of Interpretation

The Babylonian priests accordingly applied themselves to the task of perfecting a system of interpretation of the phenomena to be observed in the heavens, and it was natural that the system was extended from the moon, sun and five planets to the more prominent and recognizable fixed stars.

The interpretations themselves were based (as in the case of divination through the liver) chiefly on two factors:

• 
  
  
  • On the recollection or on written records of what in the past had taken place when the phenomenon or phenomena in question had been observed.......

I am aghast Christians actually are looking to Astrology.

Right. Astrology. I was thinking it in the back of my head.
The other thing is that you really need a computer program to really "see" this stuff they are talking about. I only know the big and little dipper. If there is any sign within the normal star alignments, me and about 7 billion other folks would miss it.
I'm just not buying it.

 

[Root of Jesse]

The only thing is, John said the sign appeared in HEAVEN. So this cannot be referring to Mary.
It sounds just like a star alignment to me. But remember, this post is questioning the whole stellar theory

The woman clothed with the sun who gave birth to a male child. Everyone says this child is Jesus, therefore the woman is Mary. In heaven.

 

[SeventyOne]

The woman clothed with the sun who gave birth to a male child. Everyone says this child is Jesus, therefore the woman is Mary. In heaven.

I don't say it's Jesus. Doesn't even sound like Jesus.

 

[Root of Jesse]

I don't say it's Jesus. Doesn't even sound like Jesus.

Who is it, then? Every male in Revelation is Jesus.

 

[Dave Watchman]

Right. Astrology. I was thinking it in the back of my head.
The other thing is that you really need a computer program to really "see" this stuff they are talking about. I only know the big and little dipper.

That's me too. Sometimes I see a bright star in the morning and wonder what it is. I'm not a star gazer.

If there is any sign within the normal star alignments, me and about 7 billion other folks would miss it.

That's kind of like how it was the last time Jesus came. Only three guys could figure out the signs. Nothing's new under the sun.

I'm just not buying it.

I am. I did. And I do. It just seems to confirm everything else. It confirms the solar and lunar eclipse from our 2015 tetrads. It confirms a 1290 day abomination. It slices out a third of a 1260 day time period. The Revelation sign alone wouldn't make any sense to me either. What would I do with it? It's remarkable, don't get me wrong, once in 7000 years. Some say it's the only time ever. They can't figure that part out.

And I'm not that smart, I drive a truck. But I downloaded Stelarium only because I needed to know for sure the exact dates that Jupiter enters, and then exits the body of Virgo. And there's also a conjunction between Jupiter and Venus that the sign seems to be pointing to. I compare those dates by counting the days between two sets of solar and lunar eclipses. And it wasn't that much fun to figure Stelarium out. I had to download an older version because the current one wouldn't work with my computer. I still use windows XP.

What I think will happen comes after the sign completes, the last seven weeks of the year. Right up until the final minutes of New Years Eve.

I'm not in agreement with everything in this guy's video but he does a good job, beginning at around the 2 minute mark, of showing the 9 month retrograde motion of Jupiter in the body of Virgo.

I tend to hope that we'll find out more about this as we get closer to it.

We don't have much time to wait.

 

[SeventyOne]

Who is it, then? Every male in Revelation is Jesus.

John was in Revelation and he wasn't Jesus. The elder was a male, and he wasn't Jesus either. That kind of assumption isn't going to get one very far.

Let's look at this male child. What are we told about him? He is born of a woman. The Dragon is waiting to devour him. He rules the nations with a rod of iron, and he is raptured (harpazo) to the throne of God as soon as he is born.

First, who are we told rules with a rod of iron? We are told in Psalms 2 that Jesus will rule the nations with a rod of iron. So, Jesus is a part of this. We are also told in Revelation 2 that the Church will also rule the nations with a rod of iron. We now have two parties ruling with a rod of iron, Jesus and the Church.

There are two words used to describe the ascent of Jesus in the scriptures, neither of them are 'harpazo', pertaining to a violent removal. Jesus ascended gradually, being watched by His followers. The only one of the two entities who rules with a rod of iron is described as departing as 'harpazo', and that's the Chruch (1 Then 4:17). The male child's departure is described as 'harpazo'.

Jesus did not have the dragon waiting to devour Him when He was born and He didn't depart as soon as He was birthed. Herod's execution of the male children didn't take place until about two years after His birth.

The male child turns out to be the gathering of the body of Christ onto one unit. We are told in numerous places that Jesus is the Head and the Church is the Body (Eph 5:23, Col 1:18, Col 2:29). The Head has already returned to the Throne, the Body (the Church) has not. When He comes back, He will receive us unto Himself, The head, and the Body members, both living and dead, will be together corporately for the first time as the single entity who we are told will rule with a rod of iron.

This child isn't Jesus. It's Him being joined with His Church as one body. In three places we are told what John is seeing had still yet to take place (Rev 1:1, 1:19, and 22:6). There is no room to suddenly take this passage out of that framework and declare it to be a past event. Even if it were, it would be an inaccurate one.

Jesus was not raptured at His departure.
Jesus is not the only one described as ruling with a rod of iron.
Jesus was not pursued by the dragon to devour Him right before His ascension.
Jesus did not depart right after His birth either, but rather He grew and matured.

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

Star alignments don't mean anything. And even the bible says no one will know the time or the date. All we have to go on is prophecies about what will come before hand.