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Ray Vander Laan

Discussion in 'Messianic Judaism' started by macher, Oct 23, 2012.

  1. macher

    macher Active Member

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    Has anyone listened or read any of Ray Vander Laan's stuff?

    follow the rabbi dot com

    He's a real blessing and sheds some great light on Jewish roots of Christianity, eastern thought versus western thought etc.

    One audio I listened too was about Chutzpah. And how chutzpah plays in the relationship with the Lord based on eastern thought.

    Reminds me of Tevye in Fiddler on the Roof and how he talks to God.
     
  2. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    What often happens on my side of the street is that there's a lot of mystery on what happens in Messianic circles...and thus, I try to explain as best as possible the differing varieties/camps within the group. I also try to do the same in noting where my fellowship/others similar have an old school feel in seeking to live as the Lord lived (or as closely as possible)---and I invite them to events at my fellowship so that they can see for themselves---and in the event they can't come, books/video resources also help. This is why one of my favorite resources to give is Ray Vander Laan of "Follow the Rabbi"

    Ran Vander Laan. is one believers who has often advocated how understanding the Judaic mindset/concepts is something that can never be escaped if one is to be considered a true folllower of Messiah---and for more, one can go online/look up his ministry, under the name of "Follow the Rabbi on Vimeo"( )


    The other would be under the name of "Ray Vander Laan’s “Follow the Rabbi” lectures « One In Jesus" ( ).


    Ray is such a blessing, especially coming from the background of one who is simply concerned on the educational aspects of how the Christian Faith is radically different when seeing the Hebraic/Jewish background and understanding that many things can never make sense without understanding certain principles. It is the same with the academics from Jerusalem perspective....as others can better understand things when knowing that learning/appreciating a Jewish perspective doesn't require that you leave all things "Church" . I especially love the ways he covers differing groups within the body of Messiah and helping others see how diverse/complicated other camps within the Judaic world are.....such as his reviews on groups like the Zealots or the Essenes (whom the early church community was seriously similar to and had been possibly influenced by...from Christ to John the Baptist and many others :) ). Concerning the ones coming to mind:

    What many in the CHurch are realizing is that even if one were to say that he or she doesn't need "Judaism" in order to serve the Lord (which is true), it would still be the case that the early church was one that was essentially a camp for Judaism...and more specifically, it was a sect of Judaism. The concept of the Blood of Jesus is something that was never seperate in thought from a Judaic worldview...and in accepting the concept of Jesus's shed blood for us, one is supporting Judaism by default----and this, of course, has nothing to do with accepting all other branches of Judaism as legitimate. If/when they deny the Blood of Jesus as sufficient for salvation/redeemption, they truly don't understand what true Judaism is about. As another said best, Judaism can exist without Christianity easily......but Christianity truly cannot exist without Judaism in order to be consistent with itself :)
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  3. Steve Petersen

    Steve Petersen Senior Veteran

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    Yet another 'rabbi' using recycled material.

    This movement is getting to be a cliche, ala Tevye.
     
  4. pat34lee

    pat34lee Messianic

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    Similar to my first impression. I haven't read any of the articles there yet, but at least he isn't pretending to be a rabbi. He's a christian minister with the National Association of Evangelists. The site is referring to Jesus as the rabbi to follow.
     
  5. macher

    macher Active Member

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    Elaborate? His material might be recycled but it's nice to hear the material re-iterated in his 'circle' which is somewhat evangelist.
     
  6. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    Are you sure the 'Evangelists' part of that is correct? Might it not be 'Evangelicals'? If it is the latter word that is a totally different concept from 'Evangelists', although linked to it in a way.

    Confusing - like me he is an ordained Minister but he also has a web-site where he is a Rabbi! Split personality?
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  7. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    His video series have been a blessing as it concerns visual illustrations..and for many, it may not be the case that they want to jump 100% in living a Judaic lifestyle....but at least there's a greater awareness of Jewish aspects of the faith. Others within Evangelical circles have had issue with him since (in their view) it seems he advocates you have to fully know Jewish culture in order to understand all aspects of the scripture or cultures in the Bible.....but others haven't had that impression and felt that his work makes sense. His work on the Festivals has been good, alongside his book Faith Lessons on the Death and Resurrection of the Messiah ....and for others:

    Death and Resurrection of the Messiah Group Bible Study by Ray Vander Laan - Faith Lessons Volume 4
    In the Dust of the Rabbi Group Bible Study by Ray Vander Laan - Faith Lessons Volume 6
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  8. macher

    macher Active Member

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    I don't think he claims to be a rabbi, I believe he's referring to Yeshua or Paul.
     
  9. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    'Ask the Rabbi' is the dominant sign on the site pages. Nowhere that I could see was it clear that he is a Gentile Minister. Nowhere does it link the dominant sign with your suggestion. :confused:
     
  10. macher

    macher Active Member

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    You must have not looked then :)

    And in the audio it introduces him as a minister and/ or prophessor or the like.

    How did I know he was a Gentile minister then?
     
  11. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    There is no doubt that, for the casual visitor to the site, the person they are relating to is a Rabbi, not an ordained Minister. A point made by others on this thread.
     
  12. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Saw the same thing to, as his bio on the website page has nothing to do with saying he's a rabbi. It was focused on showing Christ as the Rabbi we should follow, with the "Rabbi" part in regards to having a Jewish description of leadership that Christ fulfilled.

    Others have noted the same thing, such as Rob Bell--who learned from Ray and utilized part of his work in his own sermons...many of which have been critiqued over the years for his referring to Christ as a rabbi even though that's what he was. And other Messianics have noted the issue in-depth, such as Derek Leman. In example:

     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  13. Lulav

    Lulav Find 100 ways Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Which movement Steve? He isn't claiming to be Messianic.
    Here's his bio from Zondervan.

    Yes, I think you meant Evangelicals, common typos. This is a statment I found on a mahalo page
    So I wouldn't say he was 'with' them.

    Yes, we have problems with split personalities here. I found no website where he presents himself as a Rabbi. The correction should be made by you before accusing someone of doing something they haven't, so perhaps check your own spelling and reading. :wave:

    Yes, he has two websites which are now combined into one.

    That The World May Know Ministries -facebook page

    And the new site which combines that with the Follow the Rabbi. This has the web address of followtherabbi.com.

    Correct:thumbsup:

    No, again, check your spelling it does not say 'Ask the Rabbi', it says, in 72 pt or larger letters, 'FOLLOW the Rabbi'. BIG difference!

    Just like the address to that site:

    followtherabbi.com/

    The Rabbi he is asking you to follow is Yeshua/Jesus, not himself.


    Oh, my !!!!!!!!

    Will you please clean your glasses??

    The RABBI IS JESUS< YESHUA!!!!!!!!
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  14. Avodat

    Avodat Contending for Biblical truth

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    Bio? What bio on his Follow the Rabbi site? I didn't see a bio there!
     
  15. Lulav

    Lulav Find 100 ways Staff Member Administrator Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    It says, right on the HOME page,

    The Journey

    Study God's word in its original Jewish context in order to follow our Rabbi, Jesus.
     
  16. Gxg (G²)

    Gxg (G²) Pilgrim/Monastic on the Road to God (Psalm 84:1-7) Supporter CF Senior Ambassador

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    Indeed. The audio section also gives more information as to where he's coming from and what he is about, as seen here in Jesus the Master Teacher/Jesus the Master Teacher 2, Jesus the Jewish Rabbi and Rabbi & Roman. Their Philosophy page also gave information about where Ray and the organization was coming from..

    For more on who Ray is:

     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
  17. macher

    macher Active Member

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    My whole point in this topic was to post a compliment to Ray Vander Laan and other Christians like him. One doesn't necessarily have to be involved in a bonafied Messianic Jewish congregation.
     
  18. yedida

    yedida Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

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    I find that there's a big difference between a Messianic congregation and a mainstream congregation, not even considering the time of the meeting. They're just totally different. I'd say eight times out of ten, I can pick which one is which just by listening for a bit.
     
  19. macher

    macher Active Member

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    You're still missing the point. The point is there are teachers out there that aren't Messianic Jews and who happen to be Gentiles who teach Jewish roots. The level they teach is irrelevant and/or observance.
     
  20. yedida

    yedida Ruth Messianic, joining Israel, Na'aseh v'nishma!

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    What "still"? that implies I've spoken before and I hadn't on this thread.
    Nevertheless, I don't feel I'm missing the point at all. Not if you're speaking of Messianic and mainstream, or Jew/Gentile teacher. I'm speaking of Messianic vs. mainstream. I couldn't care less whether the teacher is Jewish or Gentile in a Messianic congregation - I've sat under both and both have their pros and cons. But if you're speaking of no difference between mainstream and Messianic then I beg to differ, I can't even get thru a full teaching of mainstream anymore, just too - well, a big difference in my book.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2012
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