Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists

[iamlamad]

We can see a gap in time in this prophecy read by Jesus.

Luke 4:17-20 says,
17 And the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was given to him. He unrolled the scroll and found the place where it was written,
18 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon me,
because he has anointed me
to proclaim good news to the poor.
He has sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives
and recovering of sight to the blind,
to set at liberty those who are oppressed,
19 to proclaim the year of the Lord’s favor.”
20 And he rolled up the scroll and gave it back to the attendant and sat down.”

However, there was more to that prophecy In Isaiah. The next words he left out were: “the day of vengeance of our God” (See Isaiah 61).

This is still yet future.

Ha! Very good point!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The sad thing is many Christians will miss out on the Rapture. Some because they lack the faith to believe it, and others because of a lack of holiness in their life.

 

[Choose Wisely]

Based on Luke 21:24-28, the fullness of the Gentiles occurs at the Second Coming of Christ.
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Is your purpose to lead people astray from the truth. You know full well that there is a difference between the fullness of the Gentiles coming in and the times of the Gentiles being fullfilled.

Romans 11
25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

Luke 21
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.

And interestingly enough, when the fullness of the Gentiles comes in at the pretribulation rapture, the blindness will be removed from Israel. Just more proof that replacement theology is based on turning a blind eye to the truth. However knowingly leading others astray is not a camp that I would want to be in.

 

[BABerean2]

Just more proof that replacement theology is based on turning a blind eye to the truth.

It is your form of Dual Covenant Theology that is the true form of "Replacement Theology".

You have replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.


Once a person comes to realize that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls apart with it.

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[Choose Wisely]

It is your form of Dual Covenant Theology that is the true form of "Replacement Theology".

You have replaced the one seed, with the many seeds in Galatians 3:16.


Once a person comes to realize that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34, is fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart, and the pretrib removal of the Church falls apart with it.

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Sorry, again you knowingly misrepresent the truth. You know full well what covenant I believe in. Have you no fear in knowingly misrepresenting the truth to lead others astray?The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.

 

[LastSeven]

REV 20 refutes your statement that both are raised at the same time

On the contrary. The verses I posted refute your understanding of Revelation 20.

If Acts 24:15 says there there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked, who are you to say that's not true? If scripture clearly says something that contradicts your beliefs, then you need to re-evaluate your beliefs.

Read Revelation 20 again. Does it say that only the wicked are resurrected at the end of the thousand years? No, it doesn't.

 

[keras]

Whatever a person wants to call the Rapture is up to them. But Thessalonians clearly mentions how there will be a taking up of those who are alive in the air to meet Christ. I honestly don’t care what a person calls that. But it is a truth within Scripture that they should not deny. It is silly to deny portions of what God’s Word says.

We who refute the idea of God taking people to live in heaven, do not deny 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, where Paul describes the glorious Return of Jesus to earth for His Millennium reign.
He says Jesus will gather His faithful people, those who have proved their faith during all the tough times of the end times. As Matthew 24:31 says, He will send out His angels and they will all meet the Lord in the clouds, then be with Him as His priests and rulers.
This gathering is not a 'rapture to heaven', but a transportation, similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39
The verses that rapture to heaven' believers should take careful note of are; Hebrews 12:5-8

 

[The Times]

I tried to answer several posters early on. Please refer to the links below, if you want to under stand the chronological sequences of the end times, in relation to the Bride/Church, Beast of the Bottomless Pitt perpetrating a world wide Calvary of the Bride of Christ, the beginning of the long awaited bodily resurrection, where the Bridegroom meets his Bride, the gathering of the ELECT to somewhere else on Earth after the Great Tribulation of those days, the pouring out of the Wrath of God, the Brilliant Coming of the Lord to finally translate the ELECT and he is accompanied by his Bride (Holy Ones), who were previously raised post tribulation pre wrath, at this time the seventh trumpet is sounded and an end is declared by the Lord, who utters the seven thunders (Word) and the new earth and the new heaven emerges for the resurrected, whereby death and Hell are annihilated in the second death Lake of Fire, as the final enemy death must be permanently destroyed, never to continue past this point, within the millennium reign of Christ in his Father's house of many rooms/dimensions.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-no-proof-exists.8075072/page-4#post-72999068

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-no-proof-exists.8075072/page-4#post-72999072

He says Jesus will gather His faithful people, those who have proved their faith during all the tough times of the end times. As Matthew 24:31 says, He will send out His angels and they will all meet the Lord in the clouds, then be with Him as His priests and rulers.

The proving ground for the Bride is when she stands up for her Husband in those tough times (Great Tribulation) and is murdered by the Beast of the Bottomless Pitt, after she has finished her testimony. The Bride finishes her testimony after 3.5 days, and is raised after 3.5 days, which allegorically points to the end of the prophetic week, covering the entire New Covenant Age from the 1st Century Church to the End of Days Church.

Paul places this interlude, that is the bodily resurrection of the Bride (1st Resurrection), before the ELECT are translated at Christ's brilliant coming. The ELECT who still remain alive, who are left until the Brilliant coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those, who is the martyred Church/Bride, who has been murdered by the Beast of the Bottomless Pitt after her testimony is finished.

It is after all the Bride who are the resurrected Holy Ones (priests and rulers), who comes with her Husband, for the remaining ELECT who are to be the last to be translated in their heavenly resurrection bodies.

This gathering is not a 'rapture to heaven', but a transportation, similar to what happened to Philip. Acts 8:39

I agree that the gathering of the ELECT, is not the rapture to Heaven of the Bride (two witnesses/Two olive trees). Yet when the Bride is raptured by the Angels sent out by Jesus, after the Beast does away with her, the remnant ELECT at the same time post-trib, but pre-wrath are gathered by the Angels who take them to a safe holding area on Earth, until the Brilliant coming of Christ. These are the last men standing as depicted in Joel, who go through the wrath of God, whilst protected in their Chambers provided to them by the Angelic Hosts (Isaiah 26).

Joel vividly describes what they go through as the symbol of the last good tasting wine to the wedding.

Joel 2:3
Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste-- nothing escapes them.

Before they enter their protective chambers, like the Noah ark of protection, the Earth is as the Garden of Eden, yet after they re-emerge from their chambers, the fire of God's jealousy that devours on the Great Days of Slaughter, when God comes out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the world who martyred his Son's Bride, the World is a desert waste land emptied of life and at this point the Earth will disclose her dead.

The verses that rapture to heaven' believers should take careful note of are; Hebrews 12:5-8

The Bride will be bleed out in the Great Tribulation.

 

[iamlamad]

The sad thing is many Christians will miss out on the Rapture. Some because they lack the faith to believe it, and others because of a lack of holiness in their life.

I agree.

 

[iamlamad]

I tried to answer several posters early on. Please refer to the links below, if you want to under stand the chronological sequences of the end times, in relation to the Bride/Church, Beast of the Bottomless Pitt perpetrating a world wide Calvary of the Bride of Christ, the beginning of the long awaited bodily resurrection, where the Bridegroom meets his Bride, the gathering of the ELECT to somewhere else on Earth after the Great Tribulation of those days, the pouring out of the Wrath of God, the Brilliant Coming of the Lord to finally translate the ELECT and he is accompanied by his Bride (Holy Ones), who were previously raised post tribulation pre wrath, at this time the seventh trumpet is sounded and an end is declared by the Lord, who utters the seven thunders (Word) and the new earth and the new heaven emerges for the resurrected, whereby death and Hell are annihilated in the second death Lake of Fire, as the final enemy death must be permanently destroyed, never to continue past this point, within the millennium reign of Christ in his Father's house of many rooms/dimensions.

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-no-proof-exists.8075072/page-4#post-72999068

https://www.christianforums.com/thr...-no-proof-exists.8075072/page-4#post-72999072



The proving ground for the Bride is when she stands up for her Husband in those tough times (Great Tribulation) and is murdered by the Beast of the Bottomless Pitt, after she has finished her testimony. The Bride finishes her testimony after 3.5 days, and is raised after 3.5 days, which allegorically points to the end of the prophetic week, covering the entire New Covenant Age from the 1st Century Church to the End of Days Church.

Paul places this interlude, that is the bodily resurrection of the Bride (1st Resurrection), before the ELECT are translated at Christ's brilliant coming. The ELECT who still remain alive, who are left until the Brilliant coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those, who is the martyred Church/Bride, who has been murdered by the Beast of the Bottomless Pitt after her testimony is finished.

It is after all the Bride who are the resurrected Holy Ones (priests and rulers), who comes with her Husband, for the remaining ELECT who are to be the last to be translated in their heavenly resurrection bodies.



I agree that the gathering of the ELECT, is not the rapture to Heaven of the Bride (two witnesses/Two olive trees). Yet when the Bride is raptured by the Angels sent out by Jesus, after the Beast does away with her, the remnant ELECT at the same time post-trib, but pre-wrath are gathered by the Angels who take them to a safe holding area on Earth, until the Brilliant coming of Christ. These are the last men standing as depicted in Joel, who go through the wrath of God, whilst protected in their Chambers provided to them by the Angelic Hosts (Isaiah 26).

Joel vividly describes what they go through as the symbol of the last good tasting wine to the wedding.

Joel 2:3
Before them fire devours, behind them a flame blazes. Before them the land is like the garden of Eden, behind them, a desert waste-- nothing escapes them.

Before they enter their protective chambers, like the Noah ark of protection, the Earth is as the Garden of Eden, yet after they re-emerge from their chambers, the fire of God's jealousy that devours on the Great Days of Slaughter, when God comes out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the world who martyred his Son's Bride, the World is a desert waste land emptied of life and at this point the Earth will disclose her dead.



The Bride will be bleed out in the Great Tribulation.

Readers, NONE of this is scriptural. Therefore it is only human reasoning.
Paul made the timing of his rapture clear: it will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord, coming BEFORE the Day. And John shows us the DAY beginning at the 6th seal. The proof is that John saw the church in heaven in chapter 7.

 

[iamlamad]

On the contrary. The verses I posted refute your understanding of Revelation 20.

If Acts 24:15 says there there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked, who are you to say that's not true? If scripture clearly says something that contradicts your beliefs, then you need to re-evaluate your beliefs.

Read Revelation 20 again. Does it say that only the wicked are resurrected at the end of the thousand years? No, it doesn't.

Does John list WHERE these people will come from? Yes He does, but somehow he never lists those from the thousand year reign - that I have seen.

The truth is, John shows us BOTH resurrections - with a thousand years between.

 

[LastSeven]

Does John list WHERE these people will come from? Yes He does, but somehow he never lists those from the thousand year reign - that I have seen.

The truth is, John shows us BOTH resurrections - with a thousand years between.

The truth is, you don't want to admit what Acts 24:15 is saying. Why is that?

 

[keras]

The proof is that John saw the church in heaven in chapter 7.

Where does Revelation 7 say the Church is in heaven? It doesn't, you have made that idea up.
The first 3 verses of Rev 7 set an earthly scene and there is no change of location mentioned.

All the Lord's faithful Christian people are in the holy Land. Proved by Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, where they are conquered by the 'beast' for 3 1/2 years, until Jesus Returns.

 

[The Times]

Readers, NONE of this is scriptural. Therefore it is only human reasoning.
Paul made the timing of his rapture clear: it will be the trigger for the Day of the Lord, coming BEFORE the Day. And John shows us the DAY beginning at the 6th seal. The proof is that John saw the church in heaven in chapter 7.

I have to just shrug my shoulders and say...."what ever".

Readers are intelligent enough to know the difference and to use their own brains to scrutinise what I have said in my post. Since you don't contend with it, implies you have conceded. But that is ok, you can say....

"Readers, NONE of this is scriptural. Therefore it is only human reasoning."

That statement tells me that you have conceded and cannot challenge it intellectually and thereby prevent people from scrutinising it themselves.

I really am comforted by your statement, it really tells me that I am striving towards the truth as a student of the Gospel. I would like to sincerely thank you for your feedback, it means a lot to me, because it is revealing.

Carry on.....

 

[Douggg]

Where does Revelation 7 say the Church is in heaven? It doesn't, you have made that idea up.
The first 3 verses of Rev 7 set an earthly scene and there is no change of location mentioned.

The implication in the first three verses of Revelation 7 is that the 144,000 are sealed before the hurt comes to the earth - implying that there is going to be a lot of people dying during that time. When the multitude in the latter verses in Revelation 7 are in heaven, having died during the great tribulation.

 

[keras]

The implication in the first three verses of Revelation 7 is that the 144,000 are sealed before the hurt comes to the earth - implying that there is going to be a lot of people dying during that time. When the multitude in the latter verses in Revelation 7 are in heaven, having died during the great tribulation.

Further Dougggish assumptions.
Where does Rev 7 say anyone has died?
You make the mistake of assuming the great tribulation of Revelation 7:14, is the Great Tribulation of the 7 Trumpets and 7 Bowls. It is not that at all, obviously it is the terrible ordeal of the Sixth Seal, proved by the; After these things.... of Revelation 7:1
Isn't it plain that the Lord will select the 144,000 out of the vast multitude, He is seen standing on Mt Zion; Revelation 14:1 and 1 Thess 1:10 says He will be revealed to His people.
They will proclaim the good news of the coming Kingdom to every nation and peoples. Isaiah 66:15-21

 

[Chinchilla]

I believe it means that the church will be overcome on earth, as in smothered and rejected by the world, but the kingdom of God will never be overcome because it lives in the hearts of believers.

Why do you ask? Do you think there's a contradiction there?

Yes because it's clearly said that the Beast is given power to make war and to overcome saints .

 

[Dave L]

The pretrib rapture / resurrection will take all those in Christ out of the ground - and it will happen inside seconds, not hours.

Then 7 plus years later on the "last day" the righteous old testament saints will rise, and it will inside of one hour.

Then after a thousand years the rest of the dead will rise, and that resurrection too will happen in less than an hour.

Other verses tell us these separate events will happen in DIFFERENT hours of different weeks, months and years.

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)

 

[Dave L]

No! Read it again! It is 69 weeks - then stuff happens - then the 70th week. Daniel put in the gap.

“He [Jesus] will confirm a [new] covenant with many for one week. But in the middle of that week he will bring sacrifices and offerings to a halt [with the sacrifice of himself]. On the wing of abominations will come one who destroys, until the decreed end is poured out on the one who destroys.”” (Daniel 9:27)

 

[Dave L]

The Rapture:
(The 1st Rapture or Translation of the Saints):

Description of the Rapture:

• 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

•1 Corinthians 15:51-53

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.


Clues Concerning the Rapture:

• John 14:3

And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.

• Isaiah 26:20 NLT

Go home, my people, and lock your doors! Hide yourselves for a little while until the LORD’s anger has passed.

• Matthew 25:10

And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

• Hebrews 9:28 ESV

So Christ, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin but to save those who are eagerly waiting for him.

The Dead in Christ Are Taken From Abraham's Bosom By the Rapture:
(Both the Old Testament Saints and Church Age Saints in Abraham's Bosom Are Called to Rise To Meet the Lord in the Air. For in the Rapture: The Dead in Christ Shall Rise First):

• Zechariah 9:11 NIV and 1 Thessalonians 4:16

For... I will free your prisoners from the waterless pit. And with the trump of God... the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Those Who Are Alive in Christ on the Earth Are Then Raptured:
(The Church Age Saints Are Called to Rise To Meet the Lord in the Air. This is Similar to the Translation of Enoch whereby He did Not Die):

• 1 Thessalonians 4:17

Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air.


Promise of the Rapture:
(A Deliverance of the Wrath to Come):

• 1 Thessalonians 1:10

"And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come."

• 1 Thessalonians 5:9

"For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,"


Admonishes about being ready for the Rapture:
(In order to miss out on the 7 Year Tribulation):

• Matthew 24:36-51

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season? Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing. Verily I say unto you, That he shall make him ruler over all his goods. But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken; The lord of that servant shall come in a day when he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, And shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the hypocrites: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

• Mark 13:32-37

But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father. Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is. For the Son of man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch. Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning: Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping. And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.

• Luke 21:34-36

And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares. For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth. Watch ye therefore, and pray always, that ye may be accounted worthy to escape all these things that shall come to pass, and to stand before the Son of man.

• Revelation 3:10

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

• Luke 12:45-46

But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken; The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

Many think God’s restoration of Israel happens 7 years after the rapture in a 1000 year long millennium. But this has several difficulties. One, nobody but the Father knows the time for Israel’s restoration.

“When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.” (Acts 1:6–7)