Rape, Murder, Forgiveness, and Repentance -- The Story of St. Maria Goretti

Unofficial Reverand Alex

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I'm very interested in Christian & non-Christian views on the story of this young girl from Italy. This link takes you to an article & a video about her life, and some rather remarkable details about her last 24 hours on Earth.

St. Maria Goretti - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online

What do you think?
 

awitch

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I don’t believe in saints or angels. Didn’t read the article or watch the video because I didn’t get past the donation request right at the top of the page. I’d Sooner burn my money before donating any of it to the Catholic Church.
 
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Ronit

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St. Maria Goretti. What an fantastic example of living the way our Lord Jesus Christ wants us to.
What an amazing young girl.
And Alessandro did indeed repent and was welcomed by her mother as one of her family.
He remained single and celibate until he died.
His story is recorded in the now out of print book. The Penitent By Pietro Di Donato
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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I'm very interested in Christian & non-Christian views on the story of this young girl from Italy. This link takes you to an article & a video about her life, and some rather remarkable details about her last 24 hours on Earth.

St. Maria Goretti - Saints & Angels - Catholic Online

What do you think?
How do you link her forgiveness of her attacker and the changed life of the attacker to a miracle? People can forgive others for grievous things and people can have life transformation without a God.
 
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Ronit

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How do you link her forgiveness of her attacker and the changed life of the attacker to a miracle? People can forgive others for grievous things and people can have life transformation without a God.
The act of forgiveness is a miracle. It does not come easily friend
 
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Gentle Lamb

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How do you link her forgiveness of her attacker and the changed life of the attacker to a miracle? People can forgive others for grievous things and people can have life transformation without a God.

At times forgiveness is the catalyst to a person's conversion to Christianity as forgiveness shows the person the love of Christ. Case in point, a story I read recently about a former Muslim - he used to go around attacking Christians. One day he broke the arm of a lady as he was beating her and she, crying, said to him, God bless you. He had dragged her out of her home along with his mob and they burned her house down. The woman's forgiveness touched his heart as he reflected on it and he felt badly about breaking her arm and burning down her home. He ended up becoming a Christian, starting a church between 2 mosques in his very Muslim village, and some of the members of his former Christian-attacking mob also gave their lives to Christ. If I remember correctly, his wife and kids also followed him into Christianity when they saw the violence of Islam and the transformation that the love of Christ brought to his life. Forgiveness is a very beautiful gift of love that can transform lives. It can be very painful to forgive - imagine forgiving someone as they BREAK YOUR ARM? And yet, God blesses us when we forgive and He blesses the people that we forgive.

Matthew 5:44-45
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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At times forgiveness is the catalyst to a person's conversion to Christianity as forgiveness shows the person the love of Christ. Case in point, a story I read recently about a former Muslim - he used to go around attacking Christians. One day he broke the arm of a lady as he was beating her and she, crying, said to him, God bless you. He had dragged her out of her home along with his mob and they burned her house down. The woman's forgiveness touched his heart as he reflected on it and he felt badly about breaking her arm and burning down her home. He ended up becoming a Christian, starting a church between 2 mosques in his very Muslim village, and some of the members of his former Christian-attacking mob also gave their lives to Christ. If I remember correctly, his wife and kids also followed him into Christianity when they saw the violence of Islam and the transformation that the love of Christ brought to his life. Forgiveness is a very beautiful gift of love that can transform lives. It can be very painful to forgive - imagine forgiving someone as they BREAK YOUR ARM? And yet, God blesses us when we forgive and He blesses the people that we forgive.

Matthew 5:44-45
44But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Great story. But people forgive others without God as well. I can tell stories of Muslims forgiving others because of their faith as well. Forgiving others of terrible things is not isolated to Christianity.
 
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Gentle Lamb

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Great story. But people forgive others without God as well. I can tell stories of Muslims forgiving others because of their faith as well. Forgiving others of terrible things is not isolated to Christianity.

Forgiveness is a beautiful gift, whether people are Christian or not. It is beautiful for someone to let go of their feelings of hurt and anger - people are able to rebuild their lives and develop better, deeper, more meaningful relationships and HEAL (so important!) when they are forgiven. Human forgiveness is a model of the forgiveness that God offers us through His Son Jesus Christ, who loves us so much, and came to earth to give us an opportunity to be reconciled to our Heavenly Father, who loves us so much. That forgiveness and opportunity for reconciliation gives us an opportunity to be in right relationship with God, and in that way we are able to find purpose for our lives, as we develop a relationship with our Creator. So human forgiveness gives us a beautiful model of the forgiveness that we are able to receive through Jesus Christ in order to be reconciled to God. And the effect of forgiveness is beautiful. :)
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Forgiveness is a beautiful gift, whether people are Christian or not. It is beautiful for someone to let go of their feelings of hurt and anger - people are able to rebuild their lives and develop better, deeper, more meaningful relationships and HEAL (so important!) when they are forgiven. Human forgiveness is a model of the forgiveness that God offers us through His Son Jesus Christ, who loves us so much, and came to earth to give us an opportunity to be reconciled to our Heavenly Father, who loves us so much. That forgiveness and opportunity for reconciliation gives us an opportunity to be in right relationship with God, and in that way we are able to find purpose for our lives, as we develop a relationship with our Creator. So human forgiveness gives us a beautiful model of the forgiveness that we are able to receive through Jesus Christ in order to be reconciled to God. And the effect of forgiveness is beautiful. :)
It is not the same though. I can forgive my wife without anything in return from her. That is real forgiveness. God will not forgive us unless we believe in him and ask for forgiveness in some way depending on what you believe. If you don't then there are eternal consequences.
 
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Gentle Lamb

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It is not the same though. I can forgive my wife without anything in return from her. That is real forgiveness. God will not forgive us unless we believe in him and ask for forgiveness in some way depending on what you believe. If you don't then there are eternal consequences.

Well, actually, there are already eternal consequences to our lives because of the fact that we exist. We exist because God desires to have a relationship with us. We are eternal souls occupying mortal bodies - all of us will one day experience the inevitable - death - as our eternal souls leave our mortal bodies. You love your wife and that is why you forgive her. A person offers another person forgiveness out of love. God loves us and that is why He offers us forgiveness. Because we are eternal souls and He knows that because He has created us out of love, He offers us forgiveness through Jesus Christ so that our souls can be saved and be with Him for eternity. The only reason why there is an alternative to being with Him for eternity is because of sin, which was born out of personal choice. He gives us the right to choose for ourselves freely. We have to decide whether we want to be with God eternally by having a relationship with Him while here on earth, or whether we do not want to be with God eternally. He lovingly reaches out to us continuously because He loves us :)
 
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Clizby WampusCat

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Well, actually, there are already eternal consequences to our lives because of the fact that we exist. We exist because God desires to have a relationship with us. We are eternal souls occupying mortal bodies - all of us will one day experience the inevitable - death - as our eternal souls leave our mortal bodies. You love your wife and that is why you forgive her. A person offers another person forgiveness out of love. God loves us and that is why He offers us forgiveness. Because we are eternal souls and He knows that because He has created us out of love, He offers us forgiveness through Jesus Christ so that our souls can be saved and be with Him for eternity. The only reason why there is an alternative to being with Him for eternity is because of sin, which was born out of personal choice. He gives us the right to choose for ourselves freely. We have to decide whether we want to be with God eternally by having a relationship with Him while here on earth, or whether we do not want to be with God eternally. He lovingly reaches out to us continuously because He loves us :)
I know you believe this. I will just say that if my children said they hated me and did not want anything to do with me I would wish them well and do what I could for them because I love them. Forgiveness with a catch is not forgiveness in my opinion.
 
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Gentle Lamb

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I know you believe this. I will just say that if my children said they hated me and did not want anything to do with me I would wish them well and do what I could for them because I love them. Forgiveness with a catch is not forgiveness in my opinion.

That is just the thing! :) You love your children and wish them well and would do what you can for them :) What extraordinary, incredible love a parent has for their child. No other person on earth loves your children the way you do because you are their parent. In the same way, and to a far greater extent, God also loves us. He also wishes us very well.

Jeremiah 29:11 (KJV) For I know the thoughts that I think toward you, saith the LORD, thoughts of peace, and not of evil, to give you an expected end.

Jeremiah 31:3 (KJV) The LORD hath appeared of old unto me, saying, Yea, I have loved thee with an everlasting love: therefore with lovingkindness have I drawn thee.

John 3:16 (KJV) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

These verses speak of the love of God and His desire for us to do well. God also does the extreme best of what He can for us because He loves us, even as you love your children :) There is really no catch with forgiveness, He gives it freely. We also, for our own part, have to make the independent decision to respond to the love of God :)
 
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awitch

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Hi everyone,

I wanted to apologize to @Unofficial Reverand Alex for my earlier post. It was disruptive and rude and I did all the things I complain about other people doing.

It's pretty rare these days to see a real thread, especially one that invites non-Christians for input, and I tried to set it on fire. I'm sorry.

I did go back and read the article. I'm sure Maria's experience was incredibly traumatic and I doubt I could forgive anyone who committed such an act on my family or friends.
 
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cloudyday2

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I am glad the Catholic Church made her a saint. Her story is very inspiring in that it was seemingly ordinary people and ordinary events so that anybody could theoretically follow the example.
 
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jamiec

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How do you link her forgiveness of her attacker and the changed life of the attacker to a miracle? People can forgive others for grievous things and people can have life transformation without a God.
From a Christian POV, God is the Source of all good in all things that are not-God. Including all the good experienced, said, thought, done, found, enjoyed by or known to atheists. God (in that POV) does not need permission to be the Good God that (so Christians believe) God is. So on the Christian “hypothesis”, the good things you mention are good gifts of the unrecognised God to and through people who may very well be sure that God does not exist. That they are not recognised as gifts of God, does not make them any less good or any less life-enhancing. From a Christian POV, such things, however non-miraculous & ordinary they may be, are as genuinely works of God as any miracle has been said to be.

And the fact that people do not recognise the Goodness of God in the good things they receive from others, in no ways means that nobody recognises the Goodness of God in these things. An old woman may be seen by some people as an ugly old hag of no importance - but by one man, she is seen as his wife whom he has known and loved for many years; whon he, therefore, because he knows and loves her, sees as beautiful. One woman, two sets of people to see her, two ways in which to see her. One of the properties of love is, that it opens the eyes and hearts of those who love, so that what may be of no importance in the eyes of others, is seen as beautiful and valuable in the eyes of those who love it.

Recognising the action of God is a bit like that. Those who love God best, have more of a capacity to recognise Him than the rest of us do. From a purely rationalistic POV, the love of an old man for his old wife may seem incongruous, morbid, or inexplicable - but no rational calculation or scientific analysis can reduce the experienced reality of the love between the two. They know they love one another, even if their love cannot be “transposed”, from their experience, into a convincing rational proof of that love’s reality.

And in a similar way, the reality of the Love of God can be known by being experienced, even if the reality of it cannot be “decanted” into a proof of its reality that would persuade a sceptic. The Love of God that invites creatures to love God can be talked about endlessly - but that is a “third person” activity; the serious business of being Loved by God, and of responding to that Love with love, is a “second person” activity: a dialogue between God the Creator and the created thing. This “second person” activity cannot be transposed into a “third person” activity, so it cannot be turned from an encounter with God into an argument about God.
 
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