Racists Are Recruiting. Watch Your White Sons.

[The_Barmecide]

Well technically I guess it would mean they're proud of their melanocytes and melanin the the enzyme tyrosinase which creates color of skin all of which would be crazy to say or make a point of.

The story is told of a child saying to their parent, "Look how high some of the blue balloons, red ones, black ones, and white ones go up into the sky!" The parent replied it's not the color of the balloon that counts but rather what in them. (meaning it's the helium in them and has nothing to do with color)

So what's in a person is the thing that should make them proud or not proud.

I want more He.

 

[Ken-1122]

Is this the end of the debate now?
Statistics means nothing, right?

Depending on how the question is asked, statistics can be used to support any agenda one might have. That's why it's good to question everything, rather than just blindly accept.

 

[Ken-1122]

And "White Pride" is the same thing today as it did 50 years ago.

I've NEVER seen a "white pride" thing that didn't reek of overt racism, hate, limited mental ability and sad people.

Doesn’t matter; white pride, black pride, brown pride, anytime you separate yourself for pride according to race, no matter your original intent; that separation will attract racists, hate, limited mental ability, and sad people of said race. White people aren’t the only ones who do this ya know.

 

[BeholdenGlory]

When discussing Charlottesville, one must keep in mind the long string of Antifa initiated violence leading up to and including Charlottesville. Had the cops done their jobs or Antifa not initiated violence that day, Heyer would still be alive.

Charlottesville is an example of LEFTIST violence, in spite of all the revisionist history from those who get their opinions from the corporate media.

 

[The_Barmecide]

Depending on how the question is asked, statistics can be used to support any agenda one might have.

In my years of doing statistics based research for a living whenever I hear people say something like that I know they don't really have any experience of statistics.

That's why it's good to question everything, rather than just blindly accept.

Once you dispense with having to understand statistics its possible to blindly accept anything!

 

[BeholdenGlory]

Well in reality, statistics can be manipulated to show whatever predetermined conclusion one might want to show by selectively choosing which data sets to include and how to include them.

That's why the first thing to examine in any poll or statistic or really any piece of research, is the methodology.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I asked when was the last time the Klan used violence to prevent freedom of speech and expression, and you brought up Charlottesville as an example. Since that was an example of the Klan getting the permits and Antifa showed up to cause trouble (regardless of the vehicular murder) perhaps Charolettesville was not a good example for you to use huh?

Are you suggesting that running over counter protesters with your car is not an example of "using violence to prevent freedom of speech and expression?"

..because it seems like a textbook case to me... your argument about who did or didn't have "permits" is irrelevant.

 

[The_Barmecide]

Well in reality, statistics can be manipulated to show whatever predetermined conclusion one might want to show by selectively choosing which data sets to include and how to include them.

Not as much as people who don't understand statistics want it to.

I know it's a facile and common idea that you can lie with statistics, but it's much easier to lie WITHOUT them.

That's why the first thing to examine in any poll or statistic or really any piece of research, is the methodology.

Indeed methodology should be investigated. But it is insufficient to simply decree that statistics one doesn't like are some sort of lie. Since we hadn't even gotten to the details of a specific topic yet this point is pointless.

 

[The_Barmecide]

Are you suggesting that running over counter protesters with your car is not an example of "using violence to prevent freedom of speech and expression?"

..because it seems like a textbook case to me... your argument about who did or didn't have "permits" is irrelevant.

to be fair, did anyone see the permit the Kluxers and White Priders got for Charlottesville? I mean maybe it had "one free murder" as part of the permit!

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well technically I guess it would mean they're proud of their melanocytes and melanin the the enzyme tyrosinase which creates color of skin all of which would be crazy to say or make a point of.

The story is told of a child saying to their parent, "Look how high some of the blue balloons, red ones, black ones, and white ones go up into the sky!" The parent replied it's not the color of the balloon that counts but rather what in them. (meaning it's the helium in them and has nothing to do with color)

So what's in a person is the thing that should make them proud or not proud.

Alas, we live in a world where people are not balloons... people have histories, traditions, and heritages... and when they see themselves as the continuation of that, they tend to feel proud.

 

[TLK Valentine]

to be fair, did anyone see the permit the Kluxers and White Priders got for Charlottesville? I mean maybe it had "one free murder" as part of the permit!

Always read the fine print...

 

[Bobber]

Alas, we live in a world where people are not balloons... people have histories, traditions, and heritages... and when they see themselves as the continuation of that, they tend to feel proud.

Well hold it now. What are we talking about when we even use the word "Pride"? I contend there's a good type of pride but a bad type. Nothing wrong with having a certain type of pride which connects with certain types of achievements and uniqueness of culture. A bad type is when looking at other human beings entertaining the notion they themselves have nothing likewise positive they're bringing to the table AND should be treated like inferiors.

I think the bad type rather should be labelled arrogance. If the type of "pride" is causing you to go out and demonstrate an unloving character who aren't like you than that's a characteristic you don't want. So if you're talking about black pride, white pride. Exactly what are people meaning by using the term?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Well hold it now. What are we talking about when we even use the word "Pride"? I contend there's a good type of pride but a bad type.

Agreed.

Nothing wrong with having a certain type of pride which connects with certain types of achievements and uniqueness of culture. A bad type is when looking at other human beings entertaining the notion they themselves have nothing likewise positive they're bringing to the table AND should be treated like inferiors.

Also agreed -- Now, consider what you just said above... now, imagine being on the receiving end of just that sort of treatment.

Imagine that those people did more than "entertain" the notion -- they acted on it. They did everything they could to erase you and "your kind" from their culture and history... they tried to make everyone -- including you -- forget that your people ever contributed anything meaningful to society.

Stinks, wouldn't it? Now imagine that they failed. You're still here. And if anything, you're prouder than ever because on top of your culture's other achievements, they've successfully managed to resist the attempts at erasure.

Now that's something to be proud of... don't you think?

I think the bad type rather should be labelled arrogance. If the type of "pride" is causing you to go out and demonstrate an unloving character who aren't like you than that's a characteristic you don't want. So if you're talking about black pride, white pride. Exactly what are people meaning by using the term?

I would call "black pride" (as well as "gay pride" for that matter) along the lines of what I described above... as for "White Pride," well... consider:

Nobody ever said "blue lives matter" until after people started saying "black lives matter"... why is that?

 

[Ken-1122]

In my years of doing statistics based research for a living whenever I hear people say something like that I know they don't really have any experience of statistics.

Whenever I hear people blindly accept statistics without question; I know they don’t really have any experience of statistics.

Once you dispense with having to understand statistics its possible to blindly accept anything!

Once you allow yourself to blindly accept statistics without question, it’s possible to blindly accept anything.

 

[Ken-1122]

Are you suggesting that running over counter protesters with your car is not an example of "using violence to prevent freedom of speech and expression?"

I’m saying when that person chose to get in his car and run people over, that is not an example of the Klan as an organization, getting together to use violence to prevent freedom of speech and expression.

..because it seems like a textbook case to me... your argument about who did or didn't have "permits" is irrelevant.

The only way this would be a textbook case is if the Klan as an organization planed for this guy to do what he did.

 

[SimplyMe]

I’m saying when that person chose to get in his car and run people over, that is not an example of the Klan as an organization, getting together to use violence to prevent freedom of speech and expression.

The only way this would be a textbook case is if the Klan as an organization planed for this guy to do what he did.

While I will agree that the attack of the person who drove his car into the crowd of protestors was not planned, it does appear there is evidence of White Supremacist groups encouraging and providing some help in the planning of other attacks, such as the El Paso and Pittsburgh attacks. Additionally, it seems law enforcement has prevented at least seven more attacks since then, in part because of individuals looking for help online.

 

[Ken-1122]

Not as much as people who don't understand statistics want it to.

I know it's a facile and common idea that you can lie with statistics, but it's much easier to lie WITHOUT them.

Indeed methodology should be investigated. But it is insufficient to simply decree that statistics one doesn't like are some sort of lie. Since we hadn't even gotten to the details of a specific topic yet this point is pointless.

If I recall correctly, you listed 2 links; the first one about blacks being more likely to be arrested for Pot in Alabama than whites (Alabama being historically the most racist state in the Union) Surprise surprise!
The second one about Blacks making up a higher percentage of the prison population than whites. The reasons the link gives are Sentencing policies, racial bias, and social economic inequality.

Now you don’t see a reason I should question those links? The link didn’t mention the Sentencing policies that cause more blacks to be arrested, I mentioned economic inequality, and when you consider the fact that minority police officers are far more likely to arrest and even kill minorities than white police officers (because high crime neighborhoods are more likely to be patrolled by black and brown cops) are we to assume racism is the issue when the offending officers are usually non white? Do you not see a legitimate reason to question those links you posted?

 

[Ken-1122]

Agreed.
Nobody ever said "blue lives matter" until after people started saying "black lives matter"... why is that?

The reason nobody has a problem with blue lives matter, but they have problems with black lives matter is because all races can be a "blue life" but when you say black lives, you are separating one race from all the other races and historically when this has happened, the person doing the separating is almost always a racist. Also Black lives matter implies people are unaware that black lives are as valuable as all other lives; which is condescending and offensive.

 

[Ken-1122]

While I will agree that the attack of the person who drove his car into the crowd of protestors was not planned, it does appear there is evidence of White Supremacist groups encouraging and providing some help in the planning of other attacks, such as the El Paso and Pittsburgh attacks. Additionally, it seems law enforcement has prevented at least seven more attacks since then, in part because of individuals looking for help online.

Not surprised at all.

 

[TLK Valentine]

The reason nobody has a problem with blue lives matter, but they have problems with black lives matter is because all races can be a "blue life" but when you say black lives, you are separating one race from all the other races and historically when this has happened, the person doing the separating is almost always a racist. Also Black lives matter implies people are unaware that black lives are as valuable as all other lives; which is condescending and offensive.

That's a sensible and plausible explanation, and I could easily accept that as the genuine reason, except for one thing...

Remember the Bundy standoff? (the first one, not the one where they invaded a federal wildlife refuge)

The police, blue lives one and all, went to carry out their lawful duties... and the Bundy supporters faced them with guns drawn.

Would you believe me if I told you that the exact same people (on this forum and elsewhere) who dutifully chant "blue lives matter!" whenever someone so much as whispers "black lives matter," were siding with the Bundy criminals... even as they, as you can see in the above picture, were ready and willing to end those blue lives if they decided the situation called for it.

Seems to me that no lives matter once they become inconvenient...