Racists Are Recruiting. Watch Your White Sons.

The_Barmecide

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True whites USE drugs at a similar rate to blacks, but of all the people in prison, how many do you actually think are there for USING drugs? People get arrested for POSSESSING drugs.

This is patently absurd. Can you explain to me how someone could USE a drug without POSSESSING said drug?

It is known that whites usually sell drugs to people they know or in private where as blacks are more likely to sell them in public where they are easily caught.

I have not heard this before. It sounds bizarre.

Also when people get caught for other crimes (like robbery, assault etc) if they have drugs on them at the time of arrest, they will get the drug charge tacked on as well; so because on average blacks commit more (other) crimes than whites, they are more likely to get these additional drug charges tacked on as well

Wow. So Blacks are more crime-prone than white people? Is that what you are saying? Wow. Just wow.

Again, I will point to "The New Jim Crow" and the citation of studies that show black communities are often "overpoliced". At first glance that sounds like it would be a "good" thing, unfortunately it includes things like "Stop and Frisk" which statistically go after black people vs white. And remember S&F doesn't require a clear indication of a predicate crime. But if you focus all efforts on ONLY stopping and frisking black people...guess what you get? MORE BLACK PEOPLE BEING FOUND TO BE COMMITTING CRIMES. The obvious conclusion to draw is NOT that black people are more crime prone than white people, but if you never check the white people you will always come up with more black people hit for the crime.


Unless they are Nigerian. Nigerian immigrants are the most educated group in America with 17 percent having masters degrees (asians having 12 percent) and an income on par with asians.

Nigerian immigrants are, indeed well educated (but you will note that they are NOT the most educated immigrant group in the US (Are Nigerian immigrants top of the class in the US? | Africa Check)

But that aside, if you are talking about the first generation immigrants their education and opportunities started in a different culture (Nigeria, not the US). Later generations are still inculcated with more focus than many of our citizenry in terms of the importance of education. Still this is a relatively new immigrant subset and it is a small subset. Hardly better than anecdotal in this particular debate.

How about if you read her book, then use that information to answer my question.

I've read it. But that's only because I am interested in the topic and care about getting the data.
 
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The_Barmecide

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I think it's a matter of culture. I think white people are more inclined to keep drugs at home for casual use or deal drugs at home for casual use to people they know.

Well, that sounds pretty racist.

Black people are more likely to use in their vehicles, or deal on the street to people who are strangers.

Wow.

See above.

So you can't actually answer my question with something like data or rational explanation other than your "imagination" of black folks in cars all over the country using drugs while good white kids sit in their dorm rooms using drugs.

Wow. Your entire premise has fallen apart, has it not?
 
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SimplyMe

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This is patently absurd. Can you explain to me how someone could USE a drug without POSSESSING said drug?



I have not heard this before. It sounds bizarred.



Wow. So Blacks are more crime-prone than white people? Is that what you are saying? Wow. Just wow.

Again, I will point to "The New Jim Crow" and the citation of studies that show black communities are often "overpoliced". At first glance that sounds like it would be a "good" thing, unfortunately it includes things like "Stop and Frisk" which statistically go after black people vs white. And remember S&F doesn't require a clear indication of a predicate crime. But if you focus all efforts on ONLY stopping and frisking black people...guess what you get? MORE BLACK PEOPLE BEING FOUND TO BE COMMITTING CRIMES. The obvious conclusion to draw is NOT that black people are more crime prone than white people, but if you never check the white people you will always come up with more black people hit for the crime.




Nigerian immigrants are, indeed well educated (but you will note that they are NOT the most educated immigrant group in the US (Are Nigerian immigrants top of the class in the US? | Africa Check)

But that aside, if you are talking about the first generation immigrants their education and opportunities started in a different culture (Nigeria, not the US). Later generations are still inculcated with more focus than many of our citizenry in terms of the importance of education. Still this is a relatively new immigrant subset and it is a small subset. Hardly better than anecdotal in this particular debate.



I've read it. But that's only because I am interested in the topic and care about getting the data.

I also recall that if you look at the statistics, instead of solely on race, but instead factor income into the statistics -- the rates of crime for poor Whites is much closer to that of poor Blacks; and the rates of crime for Middle Class Blacks correlates to that for Middle Class Whites. The Blacks will still be slightly higher, but then so are the statistics (as you pointed out) that they are stopped much more frequently and often arrested even where there is no clear criminal activity (such as where police are found to have escalated a routine traffic stop).
 
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Ana the Ist

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Well, that sounds pretty racist.

If you're ignorant of the facts, sure...

Van Jones correct on black imprisonment for drug offenses

They're more likely to get caught selling drugs, as Michael Tonry, professor of law at the University of Minnesota, told us back in February. "Whites are more likely to sell to people they know, and they much more often sell behind closed doors. Blacks sell to people they don't know and in public, which makes them vastly easier to arrest."

Blacks arrested for drugs are more likely to be sent to jail because they're more likely to have had a previous run-in with the law. Police tend to patrol high-crime areas more aggressively, which tend to be the poor areas, which have a higher proportion of minorities. Thus, they're more likely to be stopped for something and have a rap sheet once a drug charge comes along.

There you go.


Shocking, I know.


So you can't actually answer my question with something like data or rational explanation other than your "imagination" of black folks in cars all over the country using drugs while good white kids sit in their dorm rooms using drugs.

Wow. Your entire premise has fallen apart, has it not?

I quoted a professor of criminal studies from a left wing website.

It's a far better explanation than "derrrrp I guess everyone is racist!"
 
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The_Barmecide

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Some interesting quotes:

"African-Americans are more likely to be arrested by police and sentenced to longer prison terms for doing the same thing that whites do." We rated that statement True.

"The prevalence of drug use is only slightly higher among blacks than whites for some illicit drugs and slightly lower for others; the difference is not substantial. There is also little evidence, when all drug types are considered, that blacks sell drugs more often than whites."

'the National Research Council report says, "In recent years, drug-related arrest rates for blacks have been three to four times higher than those for whites. In the late 1980s, the rates were six times higher for blacks than for whites."'

So how does this support your idea???

They're more likely to get caught selling drugs, as Michael Tonry, professor of law at the University of Minnesota, told us back in February. "Whites are more likely to sell to people they know, and they much more often sell behind closed doors. Blacks sell to people they don't know and in public, which makes them vastly easier to arrest."

So "easier to arrest" is the bar we use to measure equality of justice???

Like I noted, the Stop and Frisk as well as 'Overpolicing' of communities of color lead to higher arrest rates, but that ONLY has meaning if we remember that if you were to overpolice and stop and frisk white people you'd probably find similar rates of criminal activity.

So, in your estimation: are black people more prone to crime than white people?
 
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Ana the Ist

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Some interesting quotes:

"African-Americans are more likely to be arrested by police and sentenced to longer prison terms for doing the same thing that whites do." We rated that statement True.

From my previous post...

Blacks arrested for drugs are more likely to be sent to jail because they're more likely to have had a previous run-in with the law.

"The prevalence of drug use is only slightly higher among blacks than whites for some illicit drugs and slightly lower for others; the difference is not substantial. There is also little evidence, when all drug types are considered, that blacks sell drugs more often than whites."

Ok. Again, see quoted section above.

'the National Research Council report says, "In recent years, drug-related arrest rates for blacks have been three to four times higher than those for whites. In the late 1980s, the rates were six times higher for blacks than for whites."'

So how does this support your idea???

Police tend to patrol high-crime areas more aggressively, which tend to be the poor areas, which have a higher proportion of minorities.

It's all in the quote....just look.
So "easier to arrest" is the bar we use to measure equality of justice???

The least careful criminals get caught the most. What sense would it make to ignore the obvious criminals and focus on those who hide their crimes?
Like I noted, the Stop and Frisk as well as 'Overpolicing' of communities of color lead to higher arrest rates, but that ONLY has meaning if we remember that if you were to overpolice and stop and frisk white people you'd probably find similar rates of criminal activity.

Stop and Frisk ended.

So, in your estimation: are black people more prone to crime than white people?

All official statistics say so. My estimation isn't needed.
 
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Ana the Ist

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You don't know? Better educate yourself...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.vo...5/4/14/8411733/black-community-policing-crime

It's the height of stupidity and the height of victimhood all at once. The police are unfairly over targeting these neighborhoods....yet they solve less violent crimes in these neighborhoods than others. Why?

It could be the police are in some magical time pardox where they're just too many of them and somehow not enough either. Or it could be that these neighborhoods are home to an abundance of crime....you know, which makes more sense.
 
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Kaon

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Well, that sounds pretty racist.



Wow.



So you can't actually answer my question with something like data or rational explanation other than your "imagination" of black folks in cars all over the country using drugs while good white kids sit in their dorm rooms using drugs.

Wow. Your entire premise has fallen apart, has it not?


214 posts... you are pretty new. You will realize these things are the norm on Christian Forums.

If you were Christian, you would also get the "luxury" of infighting, and being called a heretic for your belief. Not much different than being atheist on here I suppose.
 
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Ken-1122

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This is patently absurd. Can you explain to me how someone could USE a drug without POSSESSING said drug?
When I say possessing said drug, I meant having it with no intention of using at the moment; like in your car during a traffic stop, in your pocket with the intention of selling, etc. I mean seriously! Do you really believe thousands of people get locked up because they were stupid enough to do illegal drugs in front of a cop? C’mon you know better than this!

I have not heard this before. It sounds bizarre.
This is well known; it was even pointed out in the link I provided.

Wow. So Blacks are more crime-prone than white people? Is that what you are saying? Wow. Just wow.
https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-black-americans-commit-crime

Again, I will point to "The New Jim Crow" and the citation of studies that show black communities are often "overpoliced".
The criminals claim their neighborhoods are over policed, the law abiding citizens who are sick of being robbed, and assaulted claim it is under policed; that it takes too long for the cops to show up when called.

At first glance that sounds like it would be a "good" thing, unfortunately it includes things like "Stop and Frisk" which statistically go after black people vs white. And remember S&F doesn't require a clear indication of a predicate crime. But if you focus all efforts on ONLY stopping and frisking black people...guess what you get? MORE BLACK PEOPLE BEING FOUND TO BE COMMITTING CRIMES. The obvious conclusion to draw is NOT that black people are more crime prone than white people, but if you never check the white people you will always come up with more black people hit for the crime.
Wasn’t “stop and frisk” outlawed in the case; Floyd vs New York City?

Nigerian immigrants are, indeed well educated (but you will note that they are NOT the most educated immigrant group in the US (Are Nigerian immigrants top of the class in the US? | Africa Check)

But that aside, if you are talking about the first generation immigrants their education and opportunities started in a different culture (Nigeria, not the US). Later generations are still inculcated with more focus than many of our citizenry in terms of the importance of education. Still this is a relatively new immigrant subset and it is a small subset. Hardly better than anecdotal in this particular debate.
Again; why isn’t racism preventing them from out preforming white people?

I've read it. But that's only because I am interested in the topic and care about getting the data.
Good! Then perhaps you can answer my question. What are white people doing today to maintain their dominance (except over Nigerians)
 
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The_Barmecide

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Again; why isn’t racism preventing them from out preforming white people?

Is it? Really? Do you know the salary history over time for Nigerian second or later generation immigrants? (Because those will be the ones that will have had to come up through our systems). If you do, please provide it.

Good! Then perhaps you can answer my question. What are white people doing today to maintain their dominance (except over Nigerians)

Well, so far you and another poster have found amazing arabesques of logic like black people doing drugs in cars and white people magically absorbing drugs without ever "possessing" them to explain away one of the justice inequities. So I guess that with enough magic I can't explain anything to you! You will just hypothesize (or rely on "James" the guy in the Channel4 piece) to explain crime to you.

If you honestly think black people are more crime prone than white people then what do you think can be done about it? Is it in their nature to be criminal? What is your opinion since it seems to be so important to you that this point is clear.
 
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Kaon

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Is it? Really? Do you know the salary history over time for Nigerian second or later generation immigrants? (Because those will be the ones that will have had to come up through our systems). If you do, please provide it.



Well, so far you and another poster have found amazing arabesques of logic like black people doing drugs in cars and white people magically absorbing drugs without ever "possessing" them to explain away one of the justice inequities. So I guess that with enough magic I can't explain anything to you! You will just hypothesize (or rely on "James" the guy in the Channel4 piece) to explain crime to you.

If you honestly think black people are more crime prone than white people then what do you think can be done about it? Is it in their nature to be criminal? What is your opinion since it seems to be so important to you that this point is clear.

Based on what is posted, some on these forums believe it is in their nature, and that they are generally more degenerate than the rest of the population. They can't say that because of the rules, but they use a combination of words to convey the same message. The biggest give away is the statistical argument from an alphabet soup agency for black or latino crime (which is a reflection of the injustice of the system), or intelligence quotients of these people being "on average" (this is always emphasized in some way to distract from the focus) lower than other "races".

But, you aren't supposed to recognize what is being done, or you get the projection of their disdain in the form of reflective accusations. Sometimes it's fun to play along, since these people genuinely believe blacks and latinos are degenerate, but don't want the consequences of speaking what is in their heart. A few of them are just trolling, or playing a role. A couple are reconnoitering the social climate for business reasons by creating a conversation.
 
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Ken-1122

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Well, so far you and another poster have found amazing arabesques of logic like black people doing drugs in cars and white people magically absorbing drugs without ever "possessing" them to explain away one of the justice inequities.
Black people doing drugs in their cars? I never said anything like that; haven't you been listening? I said if you get arrested for a crime, and you have drugs on your person or in your car, you get a drug charge tacked on as well!
So I guess that with enough magic I can't explain anything to you! You will just hypothesize (or rely on "James" the guy in the Channel4 piece) to explain crime to you.
You don't need magic, just listen to what I actually say, and respond to that instead of makin’ stuff up.
If you honestly think black people are more crime prone than white people then what do you think can be done about it? Is it in their nature to be criminal? What is your opinion since it seems to be so important to you that this point is clear.
I remember a white guy who was struggling financially said to me that if you are white and poor, everybody blames you nobody makes excuses, but if you are black and poor, you can blame racism, the (white) man, and everybody allows all kinds of excuses for your failure. I think one of the worse things you can do to someone is to justify their failure because when you do that it makes failure easier to deal with, and they have less of a desire to fight for change.

I remember around 20 years ago, Schools in Oakland noticed black students were not reading as well so they introduced “ebonics” basically using slang terms in school rather than learning standard english. This puts them at a disadvantage when they get out of school and apply for a job. I see this as a cultural problem; another cultural problem is when blacks who get good grades, and speak standard english are often accused of trying to talk or act white.

No snitchin’ was a culture that allowed criminals to commit crimes knowing nobody is going to say anything to the Police. When a black man is shot by a white cop, the black community will come out in full force to protest claiming black lives matter, but when we kill each other, they say “stop snitching” even though far more die at the hands of other blacks than at the hands of the police. Yeah there are some in the community that are fighting to stop black on black crime, but when you compare it to the number of people fighting to stop police brutality, it seems like 95% of the effort is being used to combat 5% of the problem, and 5% of the effort is used to combat 95% of the problem.

Black lives matter is probably the most influential movement especially among black youth today. But if you look at their 13 guiding principles, they make it very clear that one of their goals is to disrupt the black nuclear family. They see this idea of a black man marrying a black woman and having children as acting western (white).

What We Believe - Black Lives Matter

(notice there are 2 principles where women are the focus, and 3 principles where LGBQ are the focus; but the only principle that focus on men are when a man identifies as a woman AKA trans women)
There are studies that show children do better in a 2 parent household rather than single parent (black household are already 75% single mother) I believe BLM’s desire to disrupt the black nuclear family is a disservice to black people; this along with the other examples I mentioned are cultural problems that need to change. This is something that cannot be fixed by the government, it cannot be fixed by well meaning white liberals, this is not something that can be fixed by politicians looking for votes and power, this is something that needs to be fixed by black people; they need to see it as a problem and be willing to fight to change it.
 
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