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Racism among Evangelicals

Discussion in 'General Politics' started by Mark Landry, May 29, 2019.

  1. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    But you have to admit that the more conservative denominations may pass judgment on current events and the Christian reaction to them, etc. which in turn may lead to members taking a stand on certain political issues, BUT THAT "social justice" is what many liberal denominations live and breathe.

    I don't want to muddy the waters by naming names, but there are churches in which the members are more like the Democratic Party at prayer than anything else, the religious tenets having long since been reduced to "God loves everyone. That's it.".

    And Eastern Europe for sure.

    All right, but other than for the Philippines, there isn't enough of a Christian presence in other Asian nations for those people to be able to have political influence or power. So, all in all, there is not much of the world remaining which might fall outside of what I suggested. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2019
  2. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Christians should be choosing their associated extremely conditionally: Other Christians, without regard to how human societies divide up people.

    Late in my first night of military basic training back in the early 70s, which was a long, long, strange, tumultuous day, our instructor sat us on the floor of the barracks dayroom before sending us to bed to give us a final lecture for the day.

    Sergeant Jimmy Weeks was a short, squat man from South Carolina. He was maybe 5'-6" and built like a fireplug. He had a deep Southern drawl and spoke out of the side of his mount.

    That night he said to us:

    "One thing we ain't gonna have in this flight is any racial troubles.

    The reason we ain't gonna have any racial troubles is because you ain't got no reason to have racial troubles.

    The reason you ain't got no reason to have racial troubles is because you're all the same color, namely green.

    You all got the same hair, namely none.

    You all got the same daddy, namely me.

    And you all got the same wants and desires, namely to get the #$%& out of here!"

    Here is what Sergeant Weeks meant: The Air Force had taken away the lines the civilian world had drawn between us. There were no Levis, no Guccis. No long hairs, no short hairs. No wealth, no poverty.

    We became members of a Corps with its own shared culture, with its own hair style, it's own system of vocations, it's own system of value, its own system of integrity. One corps under one commander with one mission, each member with a role and a fragment of that mission.

    That's what Christianity is supposed to do. It is supposed to erase the lines that the world has drawn between us and form us into one Body with one Head, each member with a role in the mission given to us by our Head.

    For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ.

    For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit
    .-- 1 Corinthians 12

    There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. -- Galatians 3:28

    Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all. Colossians 3:11

    The military gets this right--why can't the church?
     
  3. Daniel C

    Daniel C Active Member

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    Problem being who can define what a ''christian'' is and get a amen on that? The subject is so controversial we are not even allowed to suggest who is and is not christian on this forum because it's hard to define.

    I imagine if you or the OP or one of your supporters came into my conservative town barking orders at me or my townsmen to change our churches and lifes and change our attitude you wouldn't be greated well,just ignored. I wouldn't bother wasting time trying to get an amen from people who are still racially driven but do it in the name of social justice, only kidding themselves no one else. I just avoid as they are so self righteous and I believe the only solution is freedom of association so people can pick who they want to associate with.

    If you are liberal and admire the military style of control of its personnel i'm not surprised as it's a model that demands blind obedience with the threat of punishment if defied.
     
  4. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    If you're trying to say that conservative denominations exist only in reaction to liberal denominations...

    No, I don't agree at all.

    Which is the situation Christ intended the Church to be in.

    ... you will be dragged before governors and kings for my sake, to bear witness before them and the Gentiles. -- Matthew 10

    If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own.

    As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

    Remember what I told you: 'A servant is not greater than his master.' If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also.
    -- John 15

    Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jewish leaders. But now my kingdom is from another place." -- John 18
     
  5. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    If you love me, obey my commandments. -- John 14

    There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day. -- John 12

    The centurion replied, "Lord, I do not deserve to have you come under my roof. But just say the word, and my servant will be healed.

    For I myself am a man under authority, with soldiers under me. I tell this one, 'Go,' and he goes; and that one, 'Come,' and he comes. I say to my servant, 'Do this,' and he does it."

    When Jesus heard this, he was amazed and said to those following him, "Truly I tell you, I have not found anyone in Israel with such great faith. -- Matthew 8

    The solder got it.

    Those who are unwilling to obey the Lord are lost. If you think obedience to the Lord means someone is "liberal"--I just shake my head for you.
     
  6. Daniel C

    Daniel C Active Member

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    Right, a clarification.

    I do obey Christ but that's not what I was referring to. We were referring integration and association. And so I was alluding that you wanted others to obey your idea of what good looks like with association.

    (Sigh) Us simple people don't know the right way to run our churches or communities but you do! Right?

    There are some people who I have seen on this site and other places who I would never accept as a follower of Christ, based on their behaviour and theology. How would you reconcile that and get us to co-exist in the same community? By force?
     
  7. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Why is that relevant?
     
  8. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    I gave you scripture, for which you have no scriptural rebuttal.
     
  9. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    As long as we live in free countries, we can worship where we like. There is no verse in the Bible against this. I have been a member of an international church in Taipei. I felt very comfortable there. But I would not judge those who prefer to worship in the community of their own ethnos. As long as people are not openly excluding or disrespecting those who are different, let them be.

    On the other hand, if you seek perfection, then, by all means, act prophetically and challenge fallen human nature in Blacks, Whites, Asians, Evangelicals, Progressives and Socialists.
     
  10. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    I admire the results of your military training, but that can only be achieved in a totalitarian context. The church cannot act with this level of coercion. In fact, this is the great downfall of churches that pursue social justice: they seek total power to change human nature.
     
  11. Daniel C

    Daniel C Active Member

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    Yeah scripture for what?

    What is the point you were making?
     
  12. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    Years ago our congregation was asked by our synod to try and integrate our Hispanic members into just one service by having a blended language service. It failed. People just felt too uncomfortable and were unwilling to discuss their feelings openly to try to find solutions.
     
  13. W2L

    W2L Well-Known Member

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    Blended language? No wonder it didnt work.
     
  14. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    I've participated in such congregations before... it can work. But if the congregation isn't used to it, it can create resistance.
     
  15. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    It can work, but the congregational leadership has to get the congregation on board.
     
  16. ViaCrucis

    ViaCrucis Evangelical Catholic of the Augsburg Confession

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    Not exclusively. But systemic racism in a predominantly white society means systematic racism that is favorable for white people and not favorable for non-white people. We can't talk about racism in the West by ignoring the history of racism in the West.

    -CryptoLutheran
     
  17. Peter J Barban

    Peter J Barban Well-Known Member

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    Historically, there is a big difference between racism
    (the belief that one or more races are biologically inferior) and racial prejudice (preconceived opinion about other races that is not based on reason or actual experience).

    Today, liberals try to make everything racism, but there is not much open racism these days. If Evangelicals had open racism, the liberal media channels would be filled with concrete examples. Therefore, we can safely assume the Evangelical racism is not a noticeable concern.

    Racial prejudice, on the other hand, is everywhere. It's a form of protection that keeps people from danger. No doubt that Evangelicals have racial prejudices, just as all humans do. I have had black members in my mostly white evangelical church in America and they were completely accepted. Therefore, I am sure that Evangelicals can overcome racial prejudice by fellowshipping with likeminded black Evangelicals.
     
  18. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    It's fairly uniquely American, too. Racial imagination only developed in the US because poor black servants and whites banded together during Bacon's Rebellion in Virginia in the 16th century. Therefore, it was necessary to create a myth of race to divide people against each other. "Whiteness" was not part of the European imagination at the time.
     
  19. Paidiske

    Paidiske Clara bonam audax Supporter

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    Yeah, no. I have a birth certificate classifying me according to my race, from South Africa, which certainly didn't implement apartheid due to American influence.

    The problem is not just an American one, although no doubt in each country it has particular dimensions peculiar to that place.
     
  20. FireDragon76

    FireDragon76 En cuanto lo hicisteis a uno de estos mis hermanos Supporter

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    That's a development that took place well after Bacon's Rebellion.
     
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