rabbi Manis Friedman and Eastern Orthodox theology

[Pavel Mosko]

Another poster brought up Orthodox rabbi Manis Friedman on a different topic, on a different board. I mentioned how I and my best friend use to watch him years ago and his show "Torah Forum" and often could glean some gold nuggets from the program. He occasionally had some cool stuff to say that was useful from a Sacramental perspective on things like Holiness and such, especially concerning sacramentals. He gave the Jewish outlook for the ones contemporary synagogues but it was often very useful to looking at Christian sacramentals and liturgy. I'm talking especially about when you compare it to stuff about "Writing Icons", "windows of heaven" etc.

https://www.chabad.org/multimedia/media_cdo/aid/676159/jewish/What-Is-Holiness.htm


Some of his lecturers also dove tailed pretty well concerning an old lecture my Coptic priest in a previous hometown gave during a Vespers, aka "Raising of incense" service. That actually was quite informative, especially when it came to certain Jewish customs, traditions and attitudes about the nature of Holiness and things set apart for God's service and how that helped the early churches multiply their places of worship.


PS - I guess if I would nit pick something in Mannis Friedman's talk is he doesn't really get into the Glory of God and that is something that is really important. e.g.- When talks about God at Mount Sinai etc. that obvious is a big factor of things.

 

[Andrewn]

I mentioned how I and my best friend use to watch him years ago and his show "Torah Forum" and often could glean some gold nuggets from the program.

I discovered Rabbi Friedman's some time ago. Sometimes I disagree with his interpretations, other times I glean golden nuggets as you say. Either way, I find him to be extremely intelligent and dedicated.

Good video.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I discovered Rabbi Friedman's some time ago. Sometimes I disagree with his interpretations, other times I glean golden nuggets as you say. Either way, I find him to be extremely intelligent and dedicated.

Good video.

lol Yes I'm contemplating doing a video on him. Found him really useful on stuff like Sacramentals and Holiness, except I don't think he really gets God's Glory (he has a hard time getting why people were afraid of God at Mount Sinai).


He also is completely nuts on morality not believing their is a hierarchy on such things. I guess I said similar things once upon a time, quoting some Eastern Orthodox writings on sin, because they do not have concepts like "mortal sin", and say stuff that even "the little foxes can spoil the vine", Manis takes it to a new level maybe for some good shock value, mentioning about how people react to different Mitzoh being broken obviously being more concerned with murder, "than in eating a ham sandwich". And in his view spelling out how arbitrary that is! lol good thing his listeners follow their own conscience and instincts on that one!

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Yes I'm contemplating doing a video on him.

Do you have a YouTube channel or...?

 

[Andrewn]

except I don't think he really gets God's Glory (he has a hard time getting why people were afraid of God at Mount Sinai).

In one of his videos, he expresses lack of understanding to how a person can love God. He said something like that he worships God because God is "my God." This sounds very much like something a Muslim may say.

He also is completely nuts on morality not believing their is a hierarchy on such things. I guess I said similar things once upon a time, quoting some Eastern Orthodox writings on sin, because they do not have concepts like "mortal sin",

Evangelicals also make the same error. I guess Catholics excel in logical conclusions, except when they follow St Augustine.

BTW, Rabbi Manis like many Jews believes in reincarnation. What do you think of this?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

What do you think of this?

lol yeah. I think I first encountered this kind of topic on the X files TV show, where agent Mulder has some kind of past life memory of being a Jewish woman who died in the Holocaust.

It definitely isn't true blue Yahweh's Judaism, but it is one of the things that some Essenes believed in. Some Greek philosophers also believed in it, and the Gnostics as well. It's not clear whether the Greeks invented it on their own, or maybe lifted it from India. I think the kind of notion for the philosophically inclined is something that could be invented based on speculation easy enough...



Reincarnation According to Basilides of Alexandria:

“Men suffer from their deeds in former lives”.

Note: Though the classic Gnostics of antiquity believed that reincarnation was a reality (like Pythagoreanism, Platonism, and Kabbalah), but their goal was to be liberated from it and return back the true spiritual realm (Pleroma, Fullness).

Pistis Sophia, that same Gnostic text describing the fall of Sophia, is expounding upon an already established understanding that was articulated in the New Testament about John the Baptist being Elijah, Matthew 11:14. Of course John is described as having exited the womb same as everybody else …in other words, an example of re-incarnation (as opposed to resurrection or beaming down from above). As for Thomas the Spiritual Athlete and The Apocryphon of John, these are straight out of the Nag Hammadi Library. The Secret Book of John is considered to be one of greatest of Gnostic texts with multiple copies of it being discovered, an indication of popularity and wide usage, and most definitely essential reading for those curious about the real gnostics of antiquity. The Apocryphon of John includes reincarnation. That’s not surprising really given the obvious influences upon gnosticism such as Platonism and especially the teachings of Pythagoras (who believed in reincarnation).

Reincarnation in Gnosticism, Let the Gnostics Be Gnostic, by James Bean

 

[Andrewn]

it is one of the things that some Essenes believed in.

I didn't know that Essenes believed in reincarnation.

It's not clear whether the Greeks invented it on their own, or maybe lifted it from India.

According to the article about reincarnation in the Catholic Encyclopedia, ancient Egyptians believed in reincarnation. If true, this would be an obvious source for Pythagoras and the
Greeks.

Pistis Sophia, that same Gnostic text describing the fall of Sophia, is expounding upon an already established understanding that was articulated in the New Testament about John the Baptist being Elijah, Matthew 11:14.

Both this and the question about the man who was born blind and the disciples' answer to Jesus' question, "Who do people think I am?" show that reincarnation was known among the Jews and that Jesus did not correct their beliefs regarding reincarnation.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Do you have a YouTube channel or...?

Thanks for asking. I got one that is bugged/ glitched and can't upload right now. I am however posting here and other places like Facebook. I repost a lot of stuff on my blog here and also on Facebook, if you are over their friend me.

The Ancient Paths Blog

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I didn't know that Essenes believed in reincarnation.

I don't think it was unanimous, it was one of the quirky things about them among all the other ones. Basically the Essenes are like predecessors for not just future Christians and more mystically inclined orthodox Jews of their time, but also forerunners of Jewish Cabbalism and Judeo-Christian Gnosticism. They were on the cutting/bleeding edge of lots of things for both good and bad, but probably mostly for the good.

 

[Andrewn]

Informative video. Is the speaker a Catholic scholar? I'm not sure 3 BC fits with Herod's death.

The other interesting coincidence is that the Coptic New Year is on 9/11.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

Thanks for asking. I got one that is bugged/ glitched and can't upload right now. I am however posting here and other places like Facebook. I repost a lot of stuff on my blog here and also on Facebook, if you are over their friend me.

The Ancient Paths Blog

Fascinating stuff. You have a lot of interesting topics on your blog. I will check some of it out.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Informative video. Is the speaker a Catholic scholar? I'm not sure 3 BC fits with Herod's death.

The other interesting coincidence is that the Coptic New Year is on 9/11.

That's actually is Michael Heiser! I don't think he mentioned it in the video but his calculations etc. came from the Essenes. Basically they had a super accurate way for counting the Holy days of the major feasts of Israel. That kind of thing comes out more in his other lecturers.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

In one of his videos, he expresses lack of understanding to how a person can love God.

I experience the same lack of understanding and it is giving me a lot of anxiety. Would you have any advice on how I can love God?

Loving a Being Who I cannot perceive and Who allows for me to suffer all the time without giving me any satisfying explanation about the reasons of my suffering seems absurd and impossible to me. What should I do?

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I experience the same lack of understanding and it is giving me a lot of anxiety. Would you have any advice on how I can love God?

Loving a Being Who I cannot perceive and Who allows for me to suffer all the time without giving me any satisfying explanation about the reasons of my suffering seems absurd and impossible to me. What should I do?

Well I personally try to take the advice of Ovid

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Also like this story too

"There was once a group of women studying the book of Malachi in the Old Testament. As they were studying chapter three, they came across verse three, which says: “He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver.” This verse puzzled the women, and they wondered what this statement meant about the character and nature of God. One of the women offered to find out about the process of refining silver and get back to the group at their next Bible study.
That week this woman called up a silversmith and made an appointment to watch him at work. She didn’t mention anything about the reason for her interest beyond her curiosity about the process of refining silver. As she watched the silversmith, he held a piece of silver over the fire and let it heat up. He explained that in refining silver, one needed to hold the silver in the middle of the fire where the flames were hottest as to burn away all the impurities.
The woman thought about God holding us in such a hot spot – then she thought again about the verse, that he sits as a refiner and purifier of silver. She asked the silversmith if it was true that he had to sit there in front of the fire the whole time the silver was being refined.
The man answered “Yes”, and explained that he not only had to sit there holding the silver, but he had to keep his eyes on the silver the entire time it was in the fire. If the silver was left even a moment too long in the flames, it would be damaged.
The woman was silent for a moment. Then she asked the silversmith, “How do you know when the silver is fully refined?”
He smiled at her and answered, “Oh, that’s easy. When I see my image in it.”
If today you are feeling the heat of this world’s fire, just remember that God the Father and His Son Jesus Christ have Their eyes on you.
- Unknown"


There are other useful analogies to this stuff too. Like the Japanese art of repairing vases with Gold, and other stuff.

 

[Lucian Hodoboc]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how that analogy is supposed to help.
1. God is the one Who created the process of refining silver. He created the properties of fire, of silver, of the chemical reactions involved etc.
2. If God is omnipotent, He could have made it for silver to be refined in any other way, such as by just speaking to it or by slightly tapping it or whatever...
3. Silver doesn't have a consciousness. neither does clay, so Saint Paul's analogy to clay and the potter doesn't help me either.
4. If God is omnipotent, He could offer us a clear, rational explanation / reason for our suffering, which would be of help to us in enduring it.

 

[Andrewn]

I experience the same lack of understanding and it is giving me a lot of anxiety. Would you have any advice on how I can love God?

Loving a Being Who I cannot perceive and Who allows for me to suffer all the time without giving me any satisfying explanation about the reasons of my suffering seems absurd and impossible to me. What should I do?

I'm sorry to hear that you suffer all the time. I pray our loving Father would relieve your suffering.

The Apostle John wrote:

1Jo 4:19 We love Him because He first loved us.

So, we can't really love God unless we first feel that He loves us. I cannot force myself to feel that God loves me. Being anxious about getting this feeling stresses me and does not help. It is best to relax in his arms and read the Bible and spiritual books. The feeling will come when it wants to come.

 

[Andrewn]

I'm sorry, but I don't see how that analogy is supposed to help.
1. God is the one Who created the process of refining silver. He created the properties of fire, of silver, of the chemical reactions involved etc.
2. If God is omnipotent, He could have made it for silver to be refined in any other way, such as by just speaking to it or by slightly tapping it or whatever...
3. Silver doesn't have a consciousness. neither does clay, so Saint Paul's analogy to clay and the potter doesn't help me either.
4. If God is omnipotent, He could offer us a clear, rational explanation / reason for our suffering, which would be of help to us in enduring it.

You make very good points and raise important issues. I think God is omnipotent but He does not force his will issues on earth. He created people and delegated his power and wisdom to them. We are his arms and legs, members of the body of Christ. Unfortunately, people are capable to destroy each other and to destroy planet earth. But they are also capable of doing a lot of good if they choose. There is a lot of evil and suffering in the world. I'm sure God suffers with us.

Rom 5:20 But where sin multiplied, grace multiplied even more.

1Pe 5:10 And after you have suffered a little while, the God of all grace, who has called you to his eternal glory in Christ, will himself restore, confirm, strengthen, and establish you.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

2. If God is omnipotent, He could have made it for silver to be refined in any other way, such as by just speaking to it or by slightly tapping it or whatever...

No this is wrong from the stand point of your own Tradition's theology. Sure God is omnipotent but there is other stuff going on. God wants a partnership and relationships with humans and that includes having us share in other things besides his grace, love etc. We also share in his work and his suffering, to a small degree (because we are suppose to his disciples and part of his kingdom and his family which are antithetical to the World). This sort of thing is reflected in a number of terms Eastern Orthodox writers write about especially theosis and kenosis.


In many ways God is also like a literal parent and teaches and instruct us in his ways. I'm talking about how adults often teach children things like cooking through actual experience. Having them "help" in the activity even if it makes things move much more slow; because, sometimes things are not always about the end result of backing cakes, pastries or whatever. God is teaching us his ways. So God can do things like take have people march 40 year in the wilderness, when such a trip should only take 2 weeks; because, that end result of getting to the end is less important than the lessons we hopefully learn along the way.

3. Silver doesn't have a consciousness. neither does clay, so Saint Paul's analogy to clay and the potter doesn't help me either.

Yeah I get your objection but those kind of passages/analogies were directed at believers who felt like they were helpless when it came to their fate and the dealings of God but maybe that fit you and your situation.

But both of those analogies do relate to theosis, and that fits everybody (other than Christ). Namely, not everything that goes on is about us, but God does use all the seemingly negative things that happen to us for our good if we can receive them in faith. Both those analogies show how the stressful times can lead us or help us develop saintliness and the fruit of the spirit in our lives, they also demonstrate why such things are necessary or at least useful if you actually understand the analogy and what actually goes on in the process.




2 Corinthians 12:7-10
New King James Version

The Thorn in the Flesh
7 And lest I should be exalted above measure by the abundance of the revelations, a thorn in the flesh was given to me, a messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I be exalted above measure. 8 Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me. 9 And He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for My strength is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore most gladly I will rather boast in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in needs, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ’s sake. For when I am weak, then I am strong.