Quiverfull, hard times, and government assistance

[Kkvmatt]

I found this forum while searching the Internet for other quiverfull opinions. My husband and I are the only quiverfull people I know and lately I've heard a lot of negative in other forums about families who get pregnant while on government assistance.

Sure, my husband and I prefer not to use it and we don't use everything that's available, but being quiverfull to me doesn't mean we get to take back control when things aren't perfect. It means trusting God will continue to provide for our family in surprising ways. No matter how hard times have been, we've never gone without yet and are blessed every time we turn around.

We do our best to improve finances and be good stewards. We are getting out of debt (by not getting new debt when things are paid off). We garage sale for everything, accept hand-me downs, use cloth diapers, etc, etc, etc

Please talk to me. How do other quiverfulls approach this?

 

[Sabertooth]

We've gotten pregnant when we were financially doing well and then lose it all (because of the economy; not because of the children). If we let the economy dictate the terms of our surrender (to God) [Romans 12:1], we are choosing "Mammon" over God [Matt. 6:24]. Even Old Testament Israel had a food stamp program [Lev. 19:9], which was used by Ruth and her mother-in-law, Naomi. Ruth is in Jesus' lineage. It is better to work when there is an opportunity to do so, but feel free to use any available resources that don't violate your conscience. There are definitely some that would violate ours, but not all of them do. Praise God for those who reach out to the poor.

Jesus said there will always be poor people [Matt. 26:11] and Paul said he learned to be content in poverty AND wealth [Php. 4:11-13]. Sometimes, God has His people go through seasons of poverty. Look at Jacob's [a.k.a. Israel] household prior to joining Joseph in Egypt [toward the end of Genesis], and Joseph, himself. Not to mention Job...

 

[akmom]

Well, since you asked, I'll share what I think about being quiverfull while taking government assistance. I take from Psalm 127 that children are a blessing and large families bring happiness. I always considered myself "quiverfull" because I have a large family and take great joy in it. But what I often hear from others who claim to be "quiverfull" sounds more like an obsession than a lifestyle. It's like the new Christian fad popularized by the Duggars. Instead of focusing on raising children in the Lord, they villainize birth control - as if that is the single thing separating them from obedience to God in the matter of parenthood. There are so many other commandments we also need to follow.

I think as Christians we need to remember that we are setting an example for others. I don't know that it is such a good example if we can't support ourselves and continue having children that we can't support. I wouldn't begrudge a family for stealing bread if they had to, so I certainly wouldn't begrudge them for using food stamps if it's the difference between eating or going hungry. As I understand it, the quiverfull movement even allows for "natural" birth control. So it seems that there are indeed options - even within the quiverfull movement - to be reasonable and practical about family size. Aside from that, there are many ways to feed your family on very little money. It depends a lot on where you live. I live in Alaska, so we get a huge amount of our protein from fishing. We also garden, but are able to produce a lot less than people in warmer climates. I also grind my own flour and make all my own bread, pasta, sauces and baked goods from scratch. Soups are a great way to make cheap, healthy ingredients go a long way. If you are eating whole grains, vegetables, and protein (meat, eggs, dairy, dry beans) then you can be healthy without spending a lot of money. I don't want to insult anyone by suggesting a specific grocery list, as if others don't have one already. After all, it really depends on the prices and available goods in your area. But it would be interesting to see others' ideas on how to make due cheaply (such as hand-me-downs, cloth-diapering, etc).

 

[Sabertooth]

...I always considered myself "quiverfull" because I have a large family and take great joy in it...

...I don't know that it is such a good example if we can't support ourselves and continue having children that we can't support...

...As I understand it, the quiverfull movement even allows for "natural" birth control. So it seems that there are indeed options - even within the quiverfull movement - to be reasonable and practical about family size...

These statements show that you are completely clueless and/or pretentious about being Quiverfull. If you don't want to be QF, fine (there is no hard feelings), but you have nothing to gain in saying that you are, when you are not (other than an attempt to mislead newcomers).

Remember, Ananias & Sapphira were not judged for keeping their own money, but for being pretentious (that they gave the whole amount, when they did not).

 

[akmom]

Yeah, I get that you're the self-proclaimed authority on what "quiverfull" people are allowed to think. But I joined this subforum because I have a full quiver (in the Psalm 127 sense) and like to share ideas with others who have similar family dynamics. Perhaps your vision of quiverfull is not Psalm 127, but rather emulating the Duggars, or whatever specific extrabiblical philosophy you have. That's fine too. But the question was: Please talk to me. How do other quiverfulls approach this? If the only answer was "Nothing, just keep having kids no matter what," then there would be no point in asking the question.

 

[Sabertooth]

1. Since you advocate the use of elective contraception, that makes you Quiver-Large, not necessarily Quiverfull ("full" = "all," not particularly "many"). When a couple stops having children for health reasons or because they just stop coming, they are assured that their quiver is full.
2. Not all QF couples will have large families (but you know that already). Our intent is to have as many or as few as God sees fit to send.
3. There is no governing body telling QF couples that they must be Quiverfull. If a couple is convicted that they should eschew all medically unnecessary forms of contraception in favor of having all of the children God would send, that, by definition, is QF.
4. We are not looking for "loopholes" to abandon our conviction. If we were so inclined, we would simply choose to not be (or remain) QF. We have no such obligation to any institution, only to our own consciences.
5. The Duggars make no claims of being QF. (For those of us who do use it, it is only a descriptive label, anyway.) We were QF before we ever heard of the Duggars. (I do, however, admire their family management style, though.)

 

[akmom]

I haven't taken a position on "elective contraception" at all on this forum, only "natural birth control," which is listed right in the subforum description. These medical exceptions you describe, however, aren't part of that description. That's your own persuasion about when it's okay to willfully stop having children and still wear the label "quiverfull." And that's fine.

You feel that you should trust God with fertility, except when a medical problem arises. Then you're free to stop. But not when you're struggling to put food on the table, when your marriage is in jeopardy, or when you can't handle the responsibilities of caring for so many people... In those situations, you say, a "quiverful" person will not attempt to avoid pregnancy or space their children. But a medical issue is a special circumstance outside of God's providence, that warrants active contraceptive measures?

That is a unique position to take. I'm sure that many people share it. However, it isn't specified in the subforum description of "allowing God to decide family size and natural birth control." So I am going to proceed with my opinion that poverty, like health, is an issue that a family should stop and address. After all, being able to feed your family directly plays into the health equation. If you're relying on food stamps to do this, then you're not feeding your family. Food stamps were never intended to be a lifestyle, but rather a way to get people through hard times until they can feed themselves. (I certainly am not criticizing the use of food stamps when needed; unemployment and financial struggles simply aren't completely avoidable. They happen, and a family must feed their children in the meantime.) They have to eat. They don't have to keep having children. I don't think it's appropriate to do so at others' expense. So that was my response, and she is free to take it or leave it. I'm not claiming to be an authority on QF lifestyles or any Christian lifestyle.

 

[Sabertooth]

I haven't taken a position on "elective contraception" at all on this forum, only "natural birth control," which is listed right in the subforum description...

"Natural" is still "elective." Up until now, the two camps have just shared this forum peacefully. I did tell the admins (a while back) that this issue would crop up sooner or later.