Quick Question

[Xpycoctomos]

This question is not meant to entrap or prove anything. I realize the group I am asking about is NOT Catholic as is completely heretical and considered such by the Catholic Church for their beliefs regarding Mary.

What is the name of that heretical sect that came from defectors of the Catholic faith who believe that Mary is a fourth person of God (I forget what the name of that would be then...) or at least that believe that Mary is a God. It's a group (albeit small) that I know still exists because my friend came across them in California some years ago.

John

 

[BAFRIEND]

Don't recall the name but they are fringies who always try to make it look like (or did) that Mother Theresa and/or the Pope are always behind and supporting their postion. They use the term "Mediatrix".

Like with all the fringies, the media loves them. I recall once they had the media going that Pope JP II was about to declare their position as absolute truth Making Mary a co-redemptrix. In Vatican II the Counsel absolutely made it clear that no title bestowed upon Mary would be made nor could take away from the dignity or dogma that Christ alone is the sole redeemer.

The folks you are talking about were really annoying in the last city I lived in (Sacramento) as they stapled their literature on every damn telephone pole you could imagine !

If you do a google using the terms co redemtrix you will find a site for Vox Populi... maybe the heretics you are referring too.

 

[a_ntv]

This question is not meant to entrap or prove anything. I realize the group I am asking about is NOT Catholic as is completely heretical and considered such by the Catholic Church for their beliefs regarding Mary.

What is the name of that heretical sect that came from defectors of the Catholic faith who believe that Mary is a fourth person of God (I forget what the name of that would be then...) or at least that believe that Mary is a God. It's a group (albeit small) that I know still exists because my friend came across them in California some years ago.

John

I remind you the fact that the believe that Mary had a basic role in the redention is typical of the orthodox best-famous theologicians like Gregory Palamas and Nicolas Casabilas: their doctrine on this matter is by far more developed and more toward the co-redentrix title than the catholic one.

So, if in a future the pope will use the name of co-redentrix for Mary, it would be perfectly acceptable by the orthodox.

Anyway the pope have not it in the agenda, also because the catholic doctrine on this issue is less developed than the orthoodx one

But to state that Mary is a fourth person of God is simply a heresy.

The excesses in the Marian devotion is typical of many sedevacantist groups that are NOT part of the Catholic Church
(sedevantists=who think that the last four or five popes were not truely pope and so that now there is no pope in Rome)

There are many groups, ad instance The Apostles of Infinite Love (this group have also his anti-pope Gregory XVII)

 

[Aaron-Aggie]

I remind you the fact that the believe that Mary had a basic role in the redention is typical of the orthodox best-famous theologicians like Gregory Palamas and Nicolas Casabilas: their doctrine on this matter is by far more developed and more toward the co-redentrix title than the catholic one.

So, if in a future the pope will use the name of co-redentrix for Mary, it would be perfectly acceptable by the orthodox.

Anyway the pope have not it in the agenda, also because the catholic doctrine on this issue is less developed than the orthoodx one

But to state that Mary is a fourth person of God is simply a heresy.

The excesses in the Marian devotion is typical of many sedevacantist groups that are NOT part of the Catholic Church
(sedevantists=who think that the last four or five popes were not truely pope and so that now there is no pope in Rome)

There are many groups, ad instance The Apostles of Infinite Love (this group have also his anti-pope Gregory XVII)

it is also in line with many docotors of the Church
Specficly St. Liqouri

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I remind you the fact that the believe that Mary had a basic role in the redention is typical of the orthodox best-famous theologicians like Gregory Palamas and Nicolas Casabilas: their doctrine on this matter is by far more developed and more toward the co-redentrix title than the catholic one.

So, if in a future the pope will use the name of co-redentrix for Mary, it would be perfectly acceptable by the orthodox.

Anyway the pope have not it in the agenda, also because the catholic doctrine on this issue is less developed than the orthoodx one

But to state that Mary is a fourth person of God is simply a heresy.

The excesses in the Marian devotion is typical of many sedevacantist groups that are NOT part of the Catholic Church
(sedevantists=who think that the last four or five popes were not truely pope and so that now there is no pope in Rome)

There are many groups, ad instance The Apostles of Infinite Love (this group have also his anti-pope Gregory XVII)

uhh.... re-read my OP. I went to great lengths to state that I KNOW that this is NOT a Catholic belief.

I knew this would happen but I didn't knwo where else to go to ask the question.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Don't recall the name but they are fringies who always try to make it look like (or did) that Mother Theresa and/or the Pope are always behind and supporting their postion. They use the term "Mediatrix".

Like with all the fringies, the media loves them. I recall once they had the media going that Pope JP II was about to declare their position as absolute truth Making Mary a co-redemptrix. In Vatican II the Counsel absolutely made it clear that no title bestowed upon Mary would be made nor could take away from the dignity or dogma that Christ alone is the sole redeemer.

The folks you are talking about were really annoying in the last city I lived in (Sacramento) as they stapled their literature on every damn telephone pole you could imagine !

If you do a google using the terms co redemtrix you will find a site for Vox Populi... maybe the heretics you are referring too.

Thanks a lot. This may be them. However, I got the distinct feeling that they were even MORE crazy and not just prone to exaggeration in devotion. However, I could be wrong. Thanks again. That helps.

John

PS: I will state once more that I know that Catholics do not believe Mary is any sort of god or that she is the one who saves us in the way that Christ saves us. I think most of you got that memo, but I want to be sure so as not to give anyone here the wrong impression of why I came here.

John

 

[ps139]

Don't recall the name but they are fringies who always try to make it look like (or did) that Mother Theresa and/or the Pope are always behind and supporting their postion. They use the term "Mediatrix".

Like with all the fringies, the media loves them. I recall once they had the media going that Pope JP II was about to declare their position as absolute truth Making Mary a co-redemptrix. In Vatican II the Counsel absolutely made it clear that no title bestowed upon Mary would be made nor could take away from the dignity or dogma that Christ alone is the sole redeemer.

The folks you are talking about were really annoying in the last city I lived in (Sacramento) as they stapled their literature on every damn telephone pole you could imagine !

If you do a google using the terms co redemtrix you will find a site for Vox Populi... maybe the heretics you are referring too.

There is nothing heretical about "co-redemptrix" or "mediatrix"
http://socrates58.blogspot.com/2006/03/biblical-theological-primer-on-mary.html


John - I'm not sure who you are referring to, but I doubt it is the group that Bafriend described.

 

[Carrye]

I just found this group ... Mary is God ???

 

[Horizonol]

This question is not meant to entrap or prove anything. I realize the group I am asking about is NOT Catholic as is completely heretical and considered such by the Catholic Church for their beliefs regarding Mary.

What is the name of that heretical sect that came from defectors of the Catholic faith who believe that Mary is a fourth person of God (I forget what the name of that would be then...) or at least that believe that Mary is a God. It's a group (albeit small) that I know still exists because my friend came across them in California some years ago.

John

I don't know what the name of the 'group' is, last I heard it was just one nutty guy.

 

[BAFRIEND]

There is nothing heretical about "co-redemptrix" or "mediatrix"

In a sense all Christians are or should be that through our witness and the way we live as St. Paul stated. If we live our lives the way we should, in a sense the titles should apply to all of us believers and not Mary alone.

I think the lack of charity in your post stems from the fact that you knew the context from which I was coming from: the heretical view that Mary is equal to Jesus.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

I just found this group ... Mary is God ???

I think this is the group, or at least it was that crazy and that forward about their belief regarding Mary.

Okay, thanks a lot.

You may now close this thread as the purpose has been reached. Thanks all!

John

 

[kepha31]

I just found this group ... Mary is God ???

Fr. Gruner who runs that web site, tv show, and lots of books and magazines...is a suspended priest and his teachings about Fatima are false. http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/FATHER NICHOLAS GRUNER.htmlFr.

Gruner lives in Fort Erie, ON Canada, my former home town. It is in the Diocese of St. Catherines and verification of Fr. Gruner's suspension can be obtained by emailing the diocese. Fr. Gruner indirectly accuses Pope John Paul II and Sr. Lucia of being liars. Stay away from that Apostate-olate.

http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=3441

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Fr. Gruner who runs that web site, tv show, and lots of books and magazines...is a suspended priest and his teachings about Fatima are false. http://www.unitypublishing.com/Apparitions/FATHER NICHOLAS GRUNER.htmlFr.

Gruner lives in Fort Erie, ON Canada, my former home town. It is in the Diocese of St. Catherines and verification of Fr. Gruner's suspension can be obtained by emailing the diocese. Fr. Gruner indirectly accuses Pope John Paul II and Sr. Lucia of being liars. Stay away from that Apostate-olate.

http://www.catholicculture.org/library/view.cfm?recnum=3441

I would assume any Catholic would know that what that man teaches has nothing at all to do with Catholicism. Maybe I shouldn't assume that but it's like saying, "There's a senator out there who claims that the USA is a communist country. Be forewarned... this man does not knwo what he is talking about!" \

LOL. I'm not laughing at you. We have some quacks out there that claim to be Orthodox and, unfortunately some Orthodox are dooped into these people's teaching... so it's important that you pointed this out... but it's just frusterating that some could even concieve this as being a Catholic teaching.

John