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Questions on Salvation not Theosis....

Discussion in 'The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox' started by oneshot012, Oct 31, 2007.

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  1. Orthosdoxa

    Orthosdoxa Happy wife and mommy

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    SpiritDriven, perhaps you'd like to find out what we believe before preaching to us.

    :wave:
     
  2. ma2000

    ma2000 Veteran

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    Private
    Salvation is a continous process. There's no point when someone can say "I'm saved". It usually denotes pride.
     
  3. xristos.anesti

    xristos.anesti Veteran

    +209
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    Many years,

    East sees it differently, due to something that we enforce and perpetuate upon all of the universe.

    Mystery!

    Like all other things, salvation is a mystery - secret.

    When does it start, how does it go, where does it finish, where am I... etc, are the questions we really do not ask and really do not care about.

    It is really good theology/philosophy, but it really does not play any real part in the East.

    We have what we were given - and we do those things because those who went before us witness that it is "a good thing to do".

    The questions that we "with Western mind" have are true and honest questions... but they fail to be of any significance when one enters Eastern mindset.

    Just as an example. You know that it seems that Rome tries to exclaim the suffering of Christ our Lord on the cross, and then His death.

    Now that is an important part - but we look at His birth as much as His death as much as His resurrection...

    It is different here.. we are liquid - hard to mold. Orthodox theology is like a balloon.. when you grab it you think you got it just the way - and then it pops out somewhere else...

    The truth is, we know nothing and we will never know everything - otherwise it would be boring in eternity.

    Salvation? It is all that you do and hold and believe and then some... and that "some" is like universe - it is expanding all the time..

    God is love - bear that in mind and with that bearing bear your life and the life of the universe around you - for if God is love we need to be love to be like God - when you become love - you will know you are saved.

    For love is the biggest of them all. Wisdom, faith, knowledge... those will all pass - thus - love and do not worry - it will all be good.
     
  4. Kristos

    Kristos Servant

    +780
    Eastern Orthodox
    Married
    Sorry if that sounded a little vague. If you're really interested in how Orthodoxy views the atonement, I would recommend reading: http://www.orthodoxpress.org/parish/river_of_fire.htm
    It's about 16 pages, so not too long, but I think it's long enough to actaully explain the subject. The beginning is a little polemic - so please try to take that with a grain of salt.
     
  5. oneshot012

    oneshot012 Regular Member

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    Good question...because I don't want to be alientated or listed as a black sheep, be the odd man out because I speak in tongues and believe that God still uses people to heal the sick as a reflection of his love and power as a sign that the age to come is here and is coming...that would hurt me very much to know that I am not fully affirmed in my belief in that when I know it is historical that the gifts did not stop and that they have been present in the church throughout the centuries...I have come to a place that I know the Spirit of God does work as he wills and still works today and from my conversations with the Orthodox in my area and at large they have told me that my beliefs in the Charismatic would not be affirmed that I would only be affirmed by sectarian Orthodox...
     
  6. oneshot012

    oneshot012 Regular Member

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    I understand that no one can say I am saved...the term is Western...forgive me...I mean to say when do we recognize the starting point of salvation...
     
  7. Mary of Bethany

    Mary of Bethany Only one thing is needful. Supporter

    +998
    Eastern Orthodox
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  8. Lukaris

    Lukaris Orthodox Christian Supporter

    +1,561
    United States
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    Single
    There are articles & multimedia on the sacrament of Holy Unction (which is to annoint the sick for healing as well as the rough equivalent of a last rite). There is also an article re glossolalia (or tongues) which mentions it as a lesser but not invalid form of prayer but within private devotion. They can be found on the Greek Archdiocese website at www.goarch.org Hope this can be helpful & that you have not already read them.
     
  9. oneshot012

    oneshot012 Regular Member

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    I have not and as soon as I am done with thesis in like two weeks I will begin reading all these articles...the main reason that I am asking all these questions is because I am doing a thesis for my Romans class in Bible College...I go to a Weslyan Methodist School in New Jersey...about two years ago at work I met an Orthodox Priest and because it was a doctors office we began talking a lot and he gave me a book to read...I started reading it and it changed my thinking drastically...now I am incorporating what I have been learning about Orthodoxy in terms of theosis into my Thesis on Romans 6 in this discussion on "newness of life"...so that is where I am at and I want to thank everyone for their help thus far it has been a great blessing in regards to all the posts in different threads...it has helped me so much in making sense of a lot of these things...
     
  10. ma2000

    ma2000 Veteran

    +159
    Eastern Orthodox
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    There's nothing to forgive. I didn't find anything offensive. I just pointed out one difference in EO view. Some westerners believe in Once Saved Allways Saved.
    Forgive me instead.
     
  11. ma2000

    ma2000 Veteran

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  12. The Virginian

    The Virginian Senior Member

    645
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    Eastern Orthodox
    The question before me, which for whatever reason has degenerated into a topic on "glossalalia", is; At what point, or, when does the Orthodox doctrine of "theosis begin?
    The Apostle Peter says that God through His glory and excellence, has provided us with His precious and magnificent promises, in order that through them we might become partakers of the divine nature.(2nd Peter 1) The question then becomes; At what point, or time, does one begin to partake of the precious and magnificent promises of God?
    At the end of the Western Rite Divine Liturgy the priest intones, "The continuation of the gospel according to St. John....", which we all know is part of chapter one of that gospel. And which we also know to say, "...but to as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to be called children of God, even to those who believed on His name, who were born not of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God." That is where the process begins; to make a long post shorter, the process begins with a decision of the free will of man. Of which baptism is both a renunciation of the former life, and an affirmation of identification with Christ in death and resurrection life. I.E., theosis begins with a decision, not an act.
    Think of the speaking in tongues this way: God can speak the language of the remotest people on the face of the Earth, or in the whirling sound of the wind ( a language not many Charismatics speak when they receive "the baptism"). The point here and with God, I believe, is that it adds nothing to ones holy nature. I know, I came out of a charismatic background, and yes I did, and no I don't. It's not the sounds from my lips, but the purity of my heart, that speaks volumes to God's ear. This is what redemption restores to us, the innocence and communion Adam and Eve enjoyed with God in the Garden of Eden, before they fell.
    You want to edify your soul, assimilate the Holy Word of God! All of it, including the parts about patience, and what is said about bitterness, anger, wrath, malice, jealousy, lust, pride, slander, disobedience, humility, pride, confession, forgiveness, brotherly kindness, prayer, fasting, alms giving, good works, etc., etc., etc.,...

    it's the :bow: LORD!
    the sinful and unworthy servant
     
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