Questions on Praying to Saints

[Varangian Christian]

Hello all!

For a long time I had trouble with the idea of praying to Saints, but in recent months as I became sure God was leading me to Orthodoxy I researched it more and now I have no problem with it. When we pray to the Saints it is not idolatry, rather we enter into prayer with them to God. Finally understanding this was a relief and joy, but I still have some questions.

QUESTION 1: Is it wise to pray to Saints not mentioned in the Bible? I read recently that some modern Orthodox do not believe all canonized (is that the right word?) Saints are truly in paradise and my family believes it is risky to pray to those one is unsure of as one might attract demons.

For example lets take Emperor Constantine. There are widely divergent views regarding him with many claiming he corrupted early Christianity. I personally think Constantine was a true Christian and chosen by God, but with so much controversy I doubt I could feel comfortable praying to him and my family is uncomfortable praying to any Saint outside Scripture for this reason. What is the Church's answer to this problem?

QUESTION 2: How do I get more involved with the Saints I feel close to? From my readings it seems like engaging with the Saints is spiritually enriching, bringing one closer to God and the divine family, so I want to do it but am unsure how. I am named after two Saints and feel connected to both, but trying to incorporate them into my prayers feels awkward at the moment. Over time I seem to have created a sort of prayer routine or formula in my head and it is hard to make changes.

Also I should mention that I don't have any icons so I cant make an icon corner, which seems to be an important part of Orthodox prayer. Though my family is coming around to the idea of joining the Church I think it will be a long time before any icons are being bought.

Thank you in advance for your help.

 

[Basil the Great]

I believe that Constantine is possibly the only Christian from the first four centuries who is considered a saint by the Orthodox Church, but not the Catholic Church or at least the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church. He is venerated by Eastern Catholics in communion with Rome, but that is still not the same as sainthood, per the Catholic Answers website. However, per the EWTN website, Eastern Catholics do consider him to be a saint.

 

[HTacianas]

Hello all!

For a long time I had trouble with the idea of praying to Saints, but in recent months as I became sure God was leading me to Orthodoxy I researched it more and now I have no problem with it. When we pray to the Saints it is not idolatry, rather we enter into prayer with them to God. Finally understanding this was a relief and joy, but I still have some questions.

QUESTION 1: Is it wise to pray to Saints not mentioned in the Bible? I read recently that some modern Orthodox do not believe all canonized (is that the right word?) Saints are truly in paradise and my family believes it is risky to pray to those one is unsure of as one might attract demons.

For example lets take Emperor Constantine. There are widely divergent views regarding him with many claiming he corrupted early Christianity. I personally think Constantine was a true Christian and chosen by God, but with so much controversy I doubt I could feel comfortable praying to him and my family is uncomfortable praying to any Saint outside Scripture for this reason. What is the Church's answer to this problem?

QUESTION 2: How do I get more involved with the Saints I feel close to? From my readings it seems like engaging with the Saints is spiritually enriching, bringing one closer to God and the divine family, so I want to do it but am unsure how. I am named after two Saints and feel connected to both, but trying to incorporate them into my prayers feels awkward at the moment. Over time I seem to have created a sort of prayer routine or formula in my head and it is hard to make changes.

Also I should mention that I don't have any icons so I cant make an icon corner, which seems to be an important part of Orthodox prayer. Though my family is coming around to the idea of joining the Church I think it will be a long time before any icons are being bought.

Thank you in advance for your help.

Using the Roman Church's process for canonization as an example, someone must first pray to a righteous departed soul for intercession, and receive that intercession in the form of a miracle, before the saint is canonized. So in effect, a departed soul must first be prayed to before they are considered a saint.

Orthodoxy does not have that formal process for canonization. Saints are canonized through custom and tradition, but it would follow the same process. The righteous departed are asked for intercession long before they are considered saints.

To become comfortable with asking for the intercession of the saints, use the Liturgy as a guide. Pray to God and ask also that the saints intercede for you.

 

[Phronema]

Hello all!

For a long time I had trouble with the idea of praying to Saints, but in recent months as I became sure God was leading me to Orthodoxy I researched it more and now I have no problem with it. When we pray to the Saints it is not idolatry, rather we enter into prayer with them to God. Finally understanding this was a relief and joy, but I still have some questions.

QUESTION 1: Is it wise to pray to Saints not mentioned in the Bible? I read recently that some modern Orthodox do not believe all canonized (is that the right word?) Saints are truly in paradise and my family believes it is risky to pray to those one is unsure of as one might attract demons.

For example lets take Emperor Constantine. There are widely divergent views regarding him with many claiming he corrupted early Christianity. I personally think Constantine was a true Christian and chosen by God, but with so much controversy I doubt I could feel comfortable praying to him and my family is uncomfortable praying to any Saint outside Scripture for this reason. What is the Church's answer to this problem?

QUESTION 2: How do I get more involved with the Saints I feel close to? From my readings it seems like engaging with the Saints is spiritually enriching, bringing one closer to God and the divine family, so I want to do it but am unsure how. I am named after two Saints and feel connected to both, but trying to incorporate them into my prayers feels awkward at the moment. Over time I seem to have created a sort of prayer routine or formula in my head and it is hard to make changes.

Also I should mention that I don't have any icons so I cant make an icon corner, which seems to be an important part of Orthodox prayer. Though my family is coming around to the idea of joining the Church I think it will be a long time before any icons are being bought.

Thank you in advance for your help.

It is very wise to pray to Saints not mentioned in the Bible, also St. Contstantine is a Saint as he has been canonized by the Orthodox Church. Historically he brought Christianity to the entirety of the Roman Empire. That's no small feat in my opinion. Remember we're not praying to the "dead", we're praying for those who are alive in Christ, so how could it attract a demon as you're praying to Christ? Also, as far as I know ALL Orthodox should believe that ALL canonized Saints are in paradise otherwise they wouldn't be Saints, and they wouldn't be canonized by the Orthodox Church.

Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.

 

[Phronema]

The Theotokos is huge because she was the God bearer, that makes sense to me!

Even our anchors on Mt. Athos love her to death as it's HER peninsula. She's clearly important agreed.

 

[Varangian Christian]

It is very wise to pray to Saints not mentioned in the Bible, also St. Contstantine is a Saint as he has been canonized by the Orthodox Church. Historically he brought Christianity to the entirety of the Roman Empire. That's no small feat in my opinion. Remember we're not praying to the "dead", we're praying for those who are alive in Christ, so how could it attract a demon as you're praying to Christ? Also, as far as I know ALL Orthodox should believe that ALL canonized Saints are in paradise otherwise they wouldn't be Saints, and they wouldn't be canonized by the Orthodox Church.

Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.

That a prayer to Christ cannot attract demons is a good explanation.

So is the teaching that one simply takes it on faith that the Church is always lead by the Holy Spirit in who it chooses to canonize? I can live with that, though I would like to know the doctrines used to support it.

I was not seeking to attack Constantine in my post, fyi, he was just the most controversial Saint that came to mind.

 

[Phronema]

Ultimately the Ecumenical Patriarch would canonize them as a Saint, but it typically starts at a local level as folks pray for them and about what was done, and more.

Edit: Doctrines I don't know, they are traditions in Christianity as far as I know.

 

[ArmyMatt]

question 1. we would say it is biblical. in Lazarus and the rich man, the rich man asks Abraham (i.e. prays to him) to help his brothers. and he gets an answer.

question 2. get their icons, pray their Akathists, keep their Feast days as best as you can, etc.

 

[~Anastasia~]

If you can't have an icon corner for some reason, you can always get some paper icons and take them out when you pray. Or small icons. I have a few in my car. I also have a tiny dyptich that is less than 2" tall that I often carry with me. Looks kind of like this:

And if you can't pray in privacy in your house somewhere, maybe in the yard outside, or in the car, etc. I have been in that position before. Icons aren't essential when you pray but they are helpful. Don't think you must have an icon of the Saint you ask for prayers from and start thinking you are "praying to" that icon ... it can get you thinking the wrong way. Though I do have icons of some of my favorite Saints. It's a little like having family photos that you might glance at when you talk about a person who isn't with you - but the icon isn't the person themselves.

Something that has helped me in beginning to build a relationship with particular Saints - has often been their writings which might have really helped me in my faith, or maybe their example of how they lived their lives. I would in my prayers thank God for them, and thank God for their help by way of teaching or example (God is ultimately the grace behind them anyway). But that increased my appreciation for how they cooperated with God. And I began to ask them to pray for me in that area they were already helping me with. I find I can't explain how things grow from there, but they do. It's no different from having a student or someone you might be helping to grow in faith, and that person appreciates it and asks your help more, and you pray for them (because the natural thing to do is to bring them before God and ask His help for them, since all help comes from Him) ... and your care and concern for them grows just as love between brothers and sisters in Christ grows. But the Saints of course are really "big" brothers and sisters in Christ - or more like aunts, uncles, or great-grandparents, since they have already "arrived" with God.

Sorry I know some of that might not make much sense. I remember I used to question how or even if someone should have a "relationship" with one who had already died. Of course we do NOT seek to have 2-way conversations with them. But they can know of our appreciation and can pray for us, and all of this is ultimately to and through God. I hope that helps in some small way, and if it doesn't, forgive me for saying things poorly.

God be with you.

 

[AMM]

And if you can't pray in privacy in your house somewhere, maybe in the yard outside, or in the car, etc. I have been in that position before. Icons aren't essential when you pray but they are helpful. Don't think you must have an icon of the Saint you ask for prayers from and start thinking you are "praying to" that icon ... it can get you thinking the wrong way. Though I do have icons of some of my favorite Saints. It's a little like having family photos that you might glance at when you talk about a person who isn't with you - but the icon isn't the person themselves.

two things:
(1) I hadn't thought about praying not in my house before... when I'm at home I don't have my own room (share with my brother), and while my family isn't anti-Orthodox, sometimes when I'm praying my brother will come into my room and that disturbs my prayers. Maybe I'll start praying in the yard or something

(2) Like Anastasia said, you don't need icons to pray to them. My dorm room at school has a lot of icons and crosses in it; I believe it's 12, and a couple are handpainted even. But when I'm at home, I have only three tiny icons: the Theotokos, Christ, and the Trinity: each icon is 1"x3/4"... pretty small. But I still ask intercessions of St Jerome, I still pray to other saints as the need strikes me, etc.

I read something once that said prayer ropes, icons, etc are all tools. Some people don't need them, and can live a righteous, prayer-filled, Christ-centered life without them. Others of us, in our weakness, need these tools in order to remember Christ and be saved. Don't feel as though you must have them or else you cannot do these things. The Icons represent and remind us that we are surrounded by a cloud of witnesses, the Icons bring to remembrance that the saints are in Christ. But we confess that Christ is "everywhere present and fillest all things", not that Christ is "sometimes present but only when there's an icon".

 

[Varangian Christian]

@AMM @~Anastasia~ @ArmyMatt @LessThanPerfect2016 [USER=411268]@HTacianas @Basil the Great Thank you all very much for your help. God bless!
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