Questions of communion

gordonhooker

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Although we are represented on this forum, the Continuing Anglican churches are the one grouping of Anglicans that is not involved in the event that is the focus of this thread. Not to my knowledge, anyway.

And as for the Diocese of Sydney, my impression is that Sydney isn't talked about much at all in Continuing Anglican circles.

Sydney is spoken about a lot in Sydney :)
 
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Shane R

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Sorry, I didn't realise that ACNA doesn't fall under the umbrella of "continuing." I get the different groups mixed up...
Here in the States, we speak of the Continuum (and Traditional Anglicans -since the definition of 'Continuing Anglican' is disputed by some parties) and the 'Anglican Realignment' -which references GAFCON constituents. The GAFCON constituents tend to accept the convergence position, or three-streams Anglicanism. In reality, the Anglo-Catholic stream is minimized in that motif.
 
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PloverWing

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Like shanethetheologian, I'm remembering the deep gratitude that the Episcopal Church owes to the Scottish bishops who helped us get started. So, while I strongly support the Scottish church's decision on same-sex marriage, I'm not quick to condemn the dissenting Australian bishops. I have much to think about here. I'm quite dismayed at watching this schism unfold -- watching the zipper unzip, as Padres1969 put it.
 
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Albion

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And it might also be worth noting that the consecration did not depend upon those Australian bishops. There were about 50 bishops gathered for the occasion (and some other business) who laid hands on the new bishop, and most or all of them were part of the Anglican Communion.
 
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Padres1969

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And it might also be worth noting that the consecration did not depend upon those Australian bishops. There were about 50 bishops gathered for the occasion (and some other business) who laid hands on the new bishop, and most or all of them were part of the Anglican Communion.
True, but weren't most of the other bishops GAFCON bishops if I'm not mistaken?
 
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Padres1969

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I think so, but they are bishops in good standing of Anglican Communion provinces, you know.
Oh I know. But at the same time, they're members of a group that has already de-facto broken away from the communion even if they haven't yet got up the gumption to codify that de-jure. The Australian Bishops are NOT members of GAFCON or a church in defacto split from the Communion. Which is why their being involved would seem to be more troubling.
 
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Albion

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Oh I know. But at the same time, they're members of a group that has already de-facto broken away from the communion even if they haven't yet got up the gumption to codify that de-jure.
I don't think that particular explanation can stand, frankly; however, this is an issue that the Anglican Communion will have to resolve one of these days or have GAFCON do it for the Communion. I thought for awhile that GAFCON would withdraw, but now it looks as though they have decided against it.
 
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Padres1969

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I don't think that particular explanation can stand, frankly; however, this is an issue that the Anglican Communion will have to resolve one of these days or have GAFCON do it for the Communion. I thought for awhile that GAFCON would withdraw, but now it looks as though they have decided against it.
Indeed. For the time being GAFCON's chosen path is to basically usurp Provincial authority from other Communion members and set up parallel non-AC churches in other Anglican Communion Provincial territories. This consecration was just the latest furtherance of that policy now working to usurp Provincial authority of the Church of England and Scottish Episcopal Church among others.

Basically as a turnabout exercise it would be interesting to see how GAFCON would respond if Anglican Communion members such as the SEC, ECUSA, COE, etc... started sending Missionary Bishops into GAFCON territories. I can't imagine they'd react too well to it.
 
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Paidiske

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The Australian Bishops are NOT members of GAFCON or a church in defacto split from the Communion. Which is why their being involved would seem to be more troubling.

Ah... I think you'll find these two are. Sydney is neck-deep in GAFCON (and I think for a while, was where a lot of the money was coming from).
 
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Philip_B

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If memory serves me the former ArchBishop of Sydney, The Most Reverend Peter Jensen was actively involved on the GAFCON side of the river and I am sure there would be many supporters there. I suspect the ghist of what the Primate is saying is that we should not wear the grace of communion too lightly. Each Diocese is autocephalus however there is and understanding of the ground where we stand. While we are all stretching the fabric of Anglicanism beyond its reasonable limits we should not be surprised to see it tearing and coming apart at the seems.
 
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Padres1969

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Ah... I think you'll find these two are. Sydney is neck-deep in GAFCON (and I think for a while, was where a lot of the money was coming from).
Has the Sydney Diocese joined GAFCON officially or are they working towards it? I think that's the main thrust of what I'm getting at since if they're moving that way it's that "zipper" unzipping I mentioned earlier. As GAFCON is essentially a competing Communion at this point whether everyone is officially admitting it or not. If the bishops running Sydney are now GAFCON members, which seems likely based on what you're telling me, how much longer before they take the whole diocese with them (if they haven't already).

And mind you I'm treating GAFCON as if they're a bad thing, and if they'd remained in their own provinces and worked within the structure of the Communion I'd not have even hinted at them being such. But their putting missionary bishops in other Provinces territories as competing ecclesiastical authorities stretched the fabric of the communion to the breaking point. Doing so with the See that helps unify Anglicans worldwide in Canterbury goes beyond the breaking point IMO. The schism is real.
 
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Paidiske

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Because official membership of GAFCON is at a provincial level, Sydney can't do that, exactly. But what we have is the "Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans" amongst Australian Anglicans, which is a "branch" of GAFCON. Both of these bishops hold significant positions within the FCA, as chair and deputy chair: http://www.fca-aus.org.au/
 
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Padres1969

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Because official membership of GAFCON is at a provincial level, Sydney can't do that, exactly. But what we have is the "Fellowship of Confessing Anglicans" amongst Australian Anglicans, which is a "branch" of GAFCON. Both of these bishops hold significant positions within the FCA, as chair and deputy chair: http://www.fca-aus.org.au/
How does that compare organizationally with what GAFCON did in North America vis-a-vis the ACNA?
 
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mark46

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Oh I know. But at the same time, they're members of a group that has already de-facto broken away from the communion even if they haven't yet got up the gumption to codify that de-jure. The Australian Bishops are NOT members of GAFCON or a church in defacto split from the Communion. Which is why their being involved would seem to be more troubling.

A bishop is either a bishop within the AC or he is not. Many GAFCON bishops are bishops within the AC and can participate in the ceremony we are discussing.

Many believe that there are two communions, but this is still NOT the case.

Just BTW, our SC diocese pre-dates TEC and is now part of ACNA.
 
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