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Featured Questions for the elect

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by mcarans, Mar 11, 2019.

  1. mcarans

    mcarans Member

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    The following questions are for those who subscribe to unconditional election:

    1. Do you think you are *not* one of the elect or have you ever met someone who subscribes to unconditional election but thinks they are *not* one of the elect?

    2. If you think you are one of the elect, how do you know that God hasn't planned for you to be one of the unelect (for example by making you think you believe when you don't truly believe like those who seemed to be solid Calvinists but suddenly became atheists or agnostics)?
     
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  2. Michael Collum

    Michael Collum Everything began with a voice, use yours Supporter

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    If I'm elect, who elected me?
     
  3. Dave-W

    Dave-W Welcoming grandchild #7, Arturus Waggoner! Supporter

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    "Elect" means chosen, and that would be GOD.

    No one votes in that election.
     
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  4. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    No one can make himself elect. But the Bible tells us how we can know.

    1 John 5
    9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son. 11 And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life.

    20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.

    My mother had six children. Of those six, I am the only believer. I did not give myself faith in Christ and did not deserve faith anymore than my siblings. Our parents were not believers.
     
  5. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Well-Known Member

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    1. Well, election leads to salvation in Christ, so whether you believe in the doctrine or not it wouldn't change the fact that that Christian is an elect. You can still be the most hateful person toward predestination, but if you are a believer that has been born by God you remain among the elect. You don't have to believe in it to be part of it...

    2. Perseverance in the faith is the proof of God's elect.
     
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  6. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Its not possible to know if you are one of the Elect, but that has nothing to do with whether or not God has his Elect or how we should live our lives.
     
  7. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Active Member

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    No.

    I don't believe in a God who would mess with my head like that.
     
  8. mcarans

    mcarans Member

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    I know a former Calvinist who knew his Bible well and in conversations months before he gave up his faith, argued articulately about Calvinism. How would you explain cases like his?
     
  9. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    It is difficult to analyze a single case, but it sounds like he was well-versed in the ins and outs of Calvinist theology, which is rather technical. If so, he might have been knowledgeable enough and willing to correct people who criticize Calvinism on erroneous grounds yet he did not have a commitment to Christ personally.
     
  10. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Active Member

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    How do you know that he has completely given up his faith?
     
  11. mcarans

    mcarans Member

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    Because he said so and explained why.

    I can only judge his commitment from what he said and from that he seemed as committed as any other Calvinist I've come across. I thought commitment to Christ comes from election?
     
  12. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Seeming to be committed isn't the new birth. God keeps the ones He's given the new birth.
     
  13. Justasurvivor

    Justasurvivor Member

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    is that a thing because no offense to anyone that believes in it but it's very foreign to me and besides.. this question is breaking my mind
     
  14. mcarans

    mcarans Member

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    How do you know whether you are one that's kept by God for the new birth or if you are seeming to be committed?
     
  15. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    All right, but this doesn't mean he was one of the Elect. Nor does being knowledgeable about Calvinism.
     
  16. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    We aren't kept by God for the new birth. We are born again(saved) unto good works.

    Ephesians 2
    4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, 5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved. 6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, 7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast. 10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

    God is amazing! He gave me faith in the verses I quoted. You can't have that faith unless He gives it to you.
     
  17. Phoebe Ann

    Phoebe Ann From Mormonism to Christ Supporter

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    Calvin is NOT my Savior!
     
  18. Apologetic_Warrior

    Apologetic_Warrior Well-Known Member

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    Why would I consider myself a Christian if I thought I were not of the elect? I have heard of people who are not Christians use predestination as an excuse to claim they are not elect, but how would they know? It's not like any of us know the future or our final state, or how our stories as individuals ends. This does get into the issue of self-deception, but do people deceive themselves and or can people be self-deceived and not help but think something of themselves which is not true? So if I am not of the elect, then I am self-deceived, and if that is the case, God willing I will not let go of the deception or God willing I will break free from it and God willing open my eyes, not to a subjective truth, but to His eternal truth.

    Our spiritual experiences can only become objective as God the Holy Spirit objectifies them. We can always doubt, question, and subjectify our experiences, but the knowledge of God does not fail or waver nor can His knowledge be disproven nor falsified. The fact is God knows the entire universe exhaustively comprehensively without interpretation, He knows everything exactly as it is from all eternity. We are interpreters and God in His wisdom designed things in this way, which is intended as dependence upon Him. The question raised assumes self-deception which is hardly exclusive to Calvinists, it is common to all of mankind. As it is written; "let God be true, but every man a liar" (Romans 3:4). Does the question take into consideration the concept of the wandering sheep, the prodigal sons and daughters, and our lack of knowledge concerning our final state? I remember many years the famous atheist philosopher Atoney Flew in the frailty of old age changing his mind about the existence of a God, something I am positive came as a major surprise to him. People not of sound mind, may go back and forth, some more often than others, and I suspect a number of possible reasons for having an unsound mind.
     
  19. Ttalkkugjil

    Ttalkkugjil Active Member

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    Okay. Why?
     
  20. mcarans

    mcarans Member

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