Questions concerning John 1:1-3

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mrdave9

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I will not refute, debate or challenge your response, just asking for your thoughts, the Chaplain totally ignored my questions, so I'm going to others.

In John 1:1-3,
I believe the Word means Jesus,
but does God mean God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?

Don't panic, I believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, but consider these two possibilities:

By substituting Trinity or God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

John1c "and the Word was God" could read
"and Jesus was the Trinity" or "and Jesus was God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit."

Could Jesus be the complete Trinity?

Do you see the problem if a JW were to bring that up????

A second question:

If John1:1b, says "and the Word was with God,"

Then substituting again, it could read, "and Jesus was with the Trinity" or "and Jesus was with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit"

Could Jesus be with Himself?

But if God means other then all three persons of Trinity here, then how to distinquish when does mean all three persons when it doesn't.

What are your thoughts?
 

Michaelismyname

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My thoughts are as follows .
why do people try to understand the incomprehensible ?
sure the bible speaks of the God head - I agree ,I have No problem with that-I believe it .

But read the verse in john 1 1- 3 again .
In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God .

firstly God is not "a" trinity . He is GOD . that term alone defines him as beyond our comprehension. so no, one cannot place the word "trinity" in that text because it would only be putting in our limited attempt to define God, which would detract from the truth by being incomplete in its comprehension.

personally I avoid the term "trinity" . I find the doctrine surrounding it has been elevated to a higher level then is acceptable. what I mean by that, is it has been lifted to a point where the doctrine is held in higher esteem then God of whom it speaks -which is odd seeing that the term "trinity does not appear in the bible.

back to John 1.1-3

I once struggled with these versus also.. How can the father and the son be one and the same ?how can God be God and be a man etc .

So I asked God and ( I will essentially abbreviate this .so to speak,for the sake of length)
he showed me this...

"let us make man in our image after our likeness/image"

then he showed me this ... "from the abundance of the heart the mouth speaks "

Then he showed me that who I am is expressed only by what is communicated out from me -if i remain silent and inactive -i remain unknown.
God made me in his image in his likeness - so he showed me that he also is known by that which he expresses out from himself - that which is God, if God were inactive and silent ,would remain unknown .

so God who is spirit and the "invisible God" expressed himself .
he showed me the ways he did this ..to Adam and Eve he manifested himself in like form .. he walked and talked with them in the cool of the evening - God is Spirit and invisible - so was the form God ? or God manifest in the form - in either case the form is with God and the form is God

to Moses he manifested himself as a burning bush .. was "the burning" God? ..the burning spoke .. the words were God and God was the words and the words became, in form, a burning bush .

he showed me that he made us like he is - we speak from the abundance of the heart . so if we are made in his image then he also speaks from the abundance of his heart .

and after the separation by sin .. from the abundanceof his heart GOD SPOKE and he showed me that he said "SAVE THEM" >> salvation>> Savior>> Yeshua (in english- JESUS) and his word, the exression of the abundance of his heart, BECAME FLESH !

so can he be with himself ? YES can he be without (outside of)himself and still be himself ? YES

and all things were made by him ....."and GOD SAID (spoke, expressed his will) let there be light and there was light ..."

Then I asked the Lord "how is it then that if you are one and the same that the son will be made subject to the father"?
Then he showed me again how we are fearfully and wonderfully made in his image and in his likeness and he said when you speak from the abundance of your heart is it you who speaks or your words ? I said lord I speak my words .
and so the lord taught me - therefore your words are subject to you who speak them , they are you expressed forth . your words express your will, they are equal to you.your words cannot speak from no where, they speak only your will yet they are you expressed outwards.

the WORD is subject to the speaker and is the expression of the speaker!
The word and the speaker are ONE

That which is God, came forth from God (only begotten)and is God and returned unto God -fruitful- (my word will not return void)

And thus it is with GOD

AMEN.

----

I can truly say -no man taught me this. but after I was baptized in the Holy spirit and prophesied and spoke in tongues, I asked God in regard to these things - this ^above^ is what he showed me in regard to these things ,and I have believed him.
 
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Julz123

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Hello :)

I think I understand your question. I hope this response gives you the answer you seek. I find a study Bible to be so helpful for me, especially when I ponder similar questions. In response to John 1:1, here is some insightful information that I have reproduced from that section in my study Bible:

"why use Word as a name of a person? - This term had special meaning to both Greeks and Jews. Plato and other Greek philosophers used the term Word not only of the spoken word but also of the unspoken word, the word still in the mind - the reason. When they applied it to the universe, they meant the rational principle that governs all things. Jews, on the other hand, used the term as a way of referring to God, which also implied God's active and personal involvement in the world. Thus John used a term that was meaningful to both Jews and Gentiles. The creation is one example, when God spoke the word and the earth came into existence. In this verse, the Word refers to Jesus Christ, who is distinct from the Father and yet is God in the fullest sense."

God bless.
 
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MarkRohfrietsch

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oi_antz

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I will not refute, debate or challenge your response, just asking for your thoughts, the Chaplain totally ignored my questions, so I'm going to others.

In John 1:1-3,
I believe the Word means Jesus,
but does God mean God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit?

Don't panic, I believe in the doctrine of the Trinity, but consider these two possibilities:

By substituting Trinity or God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

John1c "and the Word was God" could read
"and Jesus was the Trinity" or "and Jesus was God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit."

Could Jesus be the complete Trinity?

Do you see the problem if a JW were to bring that up????

A second question:

If John1:1b, says "and the Word was with God,"

Then substituting again, it could read, "and Jesus was with the Trinity" or "and Jesus was with God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit"

Could Jesus be with Himself?

But if God means other then all three persons of Trinity here, then how to distinquish when does mean all three persons when it doesn't.

What are your thoughts?
Hello MR Dave,

I read the meaning of "Word" to be expressed will. I agree with what Michael said:

"the WORD is subject to the speaker and is the expression of the speaker!
The word and the speaker are ONE"

Thus, when we read John 1, we see that God is more than just an expression of will. Yet, He does express His will, and He has done so since the beginning. Read Genesis 1 which again, Michael quoted:

"and GOD SAID (spoke, expressed his will) let there be light and there was light ..."

So God has been expressing Himself as Word since the beginning. Do you still struggle to understand the correlation between word and will? What if I said "I give you my word that I will pay you on Thursday". It is therefore my will that I will pay you on Thursday, and I am expressing that will to you as word. Again, this is a concept that Michael has said to you:

when you speak from the abundance of your heart is it you who speaks or your words ? I said lord I speak my words .
and so the lord taught me - therefore your words are subject to you who speak them , they are you expressed forth . your words express your will, they are equal to you.

So, you ask what about Jesus? Well John 1:14 states that the word became human and dwelt among us. This is clearly stating that Jesus is the expressed will of God in a human form. This did not happen in the beginning, this happened 2,000 years ago. Jesus said "Before Abraham was, I AM". This is a direct expression of God's will as word, given not by spirit but by acoustic energy through the voicebox that Jesus has.

So this is how I presently understand it: that Jesus is the third part of the trinity, but that He was not there in the beginning. So Jesus is not the complete trinity, but is the human representation of God's will, the official human representation of God.
 
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TravisD

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Like many pondering Christians, I've studied this somewhat extensively. Especially after JW's knocked on my door for a period covering a year or so.

"Trinity" is a tricky word... it is not biblical and it is used as an attempt to explain something that can appear very confusing and complicated. In other words... it over simplifies the existence of the almighty.

This is what I've concluded in my mind after countless hours of contemplation....

In the beginning, when God created everything he wasn't alone. (Gen. 1:26 ... us?). Some people believe he was speaking with the angels. I don't think angels have the power to create and "us" sounds like a team effort, so I'm thinking Jesus as in the Word was there from the start. We know the Word was God from John. That's not to difficult to grasp. We human's are two things right? We are flesh and we have a spirit. Our flesh will die and our spirit will live... or die. We not only talk to ourselves but are at war with ourselves fighting temptations and dark forces.

Then fast forward to the virgin Mary giving birth to our Saviour. Look in Isaiah 43:3,11. God says he is the only saviour. Well... If Jesus is our saviour then he must be God. Ok so the word was made flesh (John 1:14). Now this part confused me for some time. Is Jesus 100% the Word? Or is he a man infused with the Word making him two distinct things.... God and Man?

A JW once brought up an interesting point... "well if Jesus is God, then how could he die?" I started to think about it and was reminded of Matthew 27:46. If Jesus is God, then why would he cry out, "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?. I think... why would Jesus say that... he knows the plan. So my conclusion, is that the Word momentarily left Jesus' human body so the death could take place in vs. 50.... just a thought but it makes sense to me. What would you say if you were born with God literally living inside you for 33 years and then at the moment before you die he separates himself to allow the death to occur?
 
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