Questions already answered...

[VOW]

"Hail" isn't just a snazzy greeting, or something you say to Caesar.

You need to do a complete research on what the greeting meant, plus understand that the greeting came from an angel of God, not just the lady across the street or the guy at the marketplace.

"Full of Grace" has much more meaning than just "undeserved favor." Mary had to be a fit vessel to hold the Son of God. Recall from Revelation that God cannot be in the presence of ANY sin whatsoever. There had to be an appropriate vessel to contain His Son, as well. In addition, Mary is the "New Eve," and so like Eve, she was sinless, so her agreement to what Gabriel said had to come from a completely unbiased platform.

Recall, too, that in the Magnificat (it's in Luke, folks), Mary HERSELF says, "All nations shall call me blessed."

How many OTHER places in the Bible do you find that occurring?


Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[chelcb]

Sunstone:

Since you are real smart and all, let me ask you something about the line "full of grace."

If Jesus had not yet come and won for us the grace of God, then how could Mary have been "full of grace?" Why did the angel say that to her if she was an ordinary sinner in need of salvation?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by chelcb
Sunstone:

Since you are real smart and all, let me ask you something about the line "full of grace."

If Jesus had not yet come and won for us the grace of God, then how could Mary have been "full of grace?" Why did the angel say that to her if she was an ordinary sinner in need of salvation?

Thanx for the compliment.

We have faith looking back at the cross, and not only looking back but looking forward to His return. Now they that were before the cross, looked forward to the cross having faith through the promise that was given to Adam and Eve in the garden. God punished them, but He also promised to crush satans head and it will bruise His heel. Also the prophets spoke of His coming, and God used many people to  be a figure of the Christ to come.

 

[chelcb]

Okay...umm, you didn't really answer me so I will ask again...what does Mary being full of grace mean to you since Jesus was yet to die for our sins?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by VOW
"Hail" isn't just a snazzy greeting, or something you say to Caesar.

You need to do a complete research on what the greeting meant, plus understand that the greeting came from an angel of God, not just the lady across the street or the guy at the marketplace.

"Full of Grace" has much more meaning than just "undeserved favor." Mary had to be a fit vessel to hold the Son of God. Recall from Revelation that God cannot be in the presence of ANY sin whatsoever. There had to be an appropriate vessel to contain His Son, as well. In addition, Mary is the "New Eve," and so like Eve, she was sinless, so her agreement to what Gabriel said had to come from a completely unbiased platform.

Recall, too, that in the Magnificat (it's in Luke, folks), Mary HERSELF says, "All nations shall call me blessed."

How many OTHER places in the Bible do you find that occurring?


Peace be with you,
~VOW

I can believe that she didn't sin, up until that point, or perhaps her whole life. After all the bible does say that God does always provide away for escape. But she was born from mans seed. Jesus was born from womens seed, which isn't corrupted, so He could be the unblimished lamb, for God to sacrifice.

But she was still born under mans seed, and I think she has no choice but to have a savior. Even Jesus didn't refer her as mother, but referred those that do His will as His family. She was thinking that He was crazy, and was going to have Him commited( From what I have heard, if anyones got any verses on it). She either forgot or disbelieved what the angel told her, later on in life when she was standing outside away from Jesus and didn't want anything to do with Him at the time.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
I can believe that she didn't sin, up until that point, or perhaps her whole life. After all the bible does say that God does always provide away for escape. But she was born from mans seed. Jesus was born from womens seed, which isn't corrupted, so He could be the unblimished lamb, for God to sacrifice.

But she was still born under mans seed, and I think she has no choice but to have a savior. Even Jesus didn't refer her as mother, but referred those that do His will as His family. She was thinking that He was crazy, and was going to have Him commited( From what I have heard, if anyones got any verses on it). She either forgot or disbelieved what the angel told her, later on in life when she was standing outside away from Jesus and didn't want anything to do with Him at the time.

 

    Am I the only one thinking how off base this guy is? :o

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by chelcb
Okay...umm, you didn't really answer me so I will ask again...what does Mary being full of grace mean to you since Jesus was yet to die for our sins?

It means the samething I have been saying, undeserved favor.

My bible the KNV says "Highly favored" and the notes say the same word translated from that is the same word used to describe us in Eph 1:6 (To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath bestowed grace upon us in the beloved.)

Are you suggesting that Jesus's death only covered from then to the future, and not the past. In other words, how did people in the old testiment have there sins cleansed?

 

[Annabel Lee]

Originally posted by chelcb
 

    Am I the only one thinking how off base this guy is? :o

Oh no..He's confusing me too.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by chelcb
 

    Am I the only one thinking how off base this guy is? :o

I would appreciate if you would explain what it is that you disagree with and give explainations.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said "who is my mother and brother?" Why were some in the crowd mocking Jesus just before that, saying something like "Look, not even His mother wants anything to do with Him."?

Just added \/

What does this verse mean? And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." ? Gen 3:15

So now that I have covered all ground with scripture, I would appreciate that you do the same.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
It means the samething I have been saying, undeserved favor.

My bible the KNV says "Highly favored" and the notes say the same word translated from that is the same word used to describe us in Eph 1:6 (To the praise of the glory of His grace, wherein He hath bestowed grace upon us in the beloved.)

Are you suggesting that Jesus's death only covered from then to the future, and not the past. In other words, how did people in the old testiment have there sins cleansed?

 

No, no, not at all you only proved a Catholic doctrine that's all.

Mary was made sinless from mans seeds, we do not deney that she is from mans seed but she was preserved by God from original sin. God took Christ's merits that were to come and applied them to Mary. That is how come the angel said that she was full of grace, because she was, and she was full, not have or a little, but full of grace.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
I would appreciate if you would explain what it is that you disagree with and give explainations.

What do you think Jesus meant when He said "who is my mother and brother?" Why were some in the crowd mocking Jesus just before that, saying something like "Look, not even His mother wants anything to do with Him."?

Just added \/

What does this verse mean? And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." ? Gen 3:15

So now that I have covered all ground with scripture, I would appreciate that you do the same.

 

What else can I say other than you are citing scripture that supports Catholic beliefs.

Jesus was saying to the crowd, 'look bud, the guy that does my father's will is my mother because she always does my fathers will and you should be like her and do the same.'

And in Gen., I take it as God will preserve her (the woman, remember Jesus also called Mary 'woman') from sin and her seed that comes fourth from her will crush the head of satan.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by chelcb
 

No, no, not at all you only proved a Catholic doctrine that's all.

Mary was made sinless from mans seeds, we do not deney that she is from mans seed but she was preserved by God from original sin. God took Christ's merits that were to come and applied them to Mary. That is how come the angel said that she was full of grace, because she was, and she was full, not have or a little, but full of grace.

Being born of mans seed means you are born into sin. Why else would Jesus have to be born from womens seed?

And that same word used for grace/favor is the same word used in Eph 1:6 about us.

Now please answer the questions, and answer another

Why is the same word used to describe Mary, the same exact word used to descibe us in Eph 1:6?

 

[SUNSTONE]

Ok I just saw your post, so let me look it over about my questions.

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
Being born of mans seed means you are born into sin. Why else would Jesus have to be born from womens seed?

And that same word used for grace/favor is the same word used in Eph 1:6 about us.

Now please answer the questions, and answer another

Why is the same word used to describe Mary, the same exact word used to descibe us in Eph 1:6?

 

This is going to be my last post because it is late and I am going to bed.

To your first question: Duh???...Is man's seed is not the same seed belonging to Satan? You might want to re-think that one.

Statement #2: No it isn't.

Queston #3: Again, no it isn't.

Goodnight, I'll get back to you in the morning if the God lord says the same.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by chelcb
 

What else can I say other than you are citing scripture that supports Catholic beliefs.

Jesus was saying to the crowd, 'look bud, the guy that does my father's will is my mother because she always does my fathers will and you should be like her and do the same.'

And in Gen., I take it as God will preserve her (the woman, remember Jesus also called Mary 'woman') from sin and her seed that comes fourth from her will crush the head of satan.

There is nothing wrong with womens seed, the problem is when man's seed goes with hers. God came upon Mary and got freaky and produced baby Jesus, and baby Jesus grew up to do some skull crushing. But Mary didn't have God as her father, she had a human father.

Now I looked at the verses about how Mary and Jesus brothers were standing outside of the circle wanting to speak with Jesus.Some in the group said, your family wants to speak with you, and Jesus said who is my mother, and brother? Those that do the will of the Father, and he pointed at those that were in the circle listening to Him.

Why would Jesus say that? Was she doing the will of the Father? Or did He have another reason to say such a thing.

 

[chelcb]

You know what , I just realized something, you posted that Jesus had to be born from a woman's seed. Why? Do you think Jesus got his sinlessness from Mary? Is that why you asked if she was sinless up to the point of birth?

Jesus got his sinlessness from God, by virture of being God, not by virtue of Mary.

Like I said you are way off base, I'll get back to you tomorrow.

 

[SUNSTONE]

Originally posted by chelcb
 

This is going to be my last post because it is late and I am going to bed.

To your first question: Duh???...Is man's seed is not the same seed belonging to Satan? You might want to re-think that one.

Statement #2: No it isn't.

Queston #3: Again, no it isn't.

Goodnight, I'll get back to you in the morning if the God lord says the same.

When Adam sinned he signed over everyone born of mans seed into bondage, or a different way of saying it is the devils seed. There was nothing wrong with the womens seed, because she didn't have athority, man did. Adam blew it so you gals had to come and save the day . Ok not true, but God used women to bring Jesus through, because God the Father had His only begotten Son through Mary. No mans seed at all.

"The word translated "highly favored" is used of all believers in Ephesians 1:6" That is what my foot notes say in KJV bible. That means that the hebrew or aramic launguage uses the same word.  Luke 1:28 and Eph 1:6

Good night

 

[VOW]

To Sunstone:

You need to do some SERIOUS research into Science, especially reproductive science.

And you need to do some HEAVY research, and provide standard bibliographic references to those incredibly WILD proclamations about Mary "abandoning" Jesus. That's bordering dangerously close to Heresy, and will NOT be tolerated in the Catholic area of CF.

In fact, I don't think it would be tolerated in ANY area of CF!



Peace be with you,
~VOW

 

[kern]

Sort of reminds me of another Mary thread where someone was saying that the Aramaic word translated "woman" was an insult (obviously in an attempt to disprove that we should honor Mary). Right, I guess Jesus took some time while he was suffering on the cross to insult his mother...

-Chris

 

[chelcb]

Originally posted by SUNSTONE
There is nothing wrong with womens seed, the problem is when man's seed goes with hers. God came upon Mary and got freaky and produced baby Jesus, and baby Jesus grew up to do some skull crushing. But Mary didn't have God as her father, she had a human father.

Now I looked at the verses about how Mary and Jesus brothers were standing outside of the circle wanting to speak with Jesus.Some in the group said, your family wants to speak with you, and Jesus said who is my mother, and brother? Those that do the will of the Father, and he pointed at those that were in the circle listening to Him.

Why would Jesus say that? Was she doing the will of the Father? Or did He have another reason to say such a thing.

 

Sunstone:

There is so many things that you posted in here, I don't even know if I can respond to them all in a way that would do them justice. Let me say this, I can see why Protestants have trouble understanding Mary's role if this is the kind of stuff they have been indoctrinated in.

I have to ask you a question, it is only from my father's side I received my sinful human nature, I didn't get it from my mother to?

Is this really how you ration Mary's blessedness?