Questions about preterism

frost · Jul 24, 2003

Well, I never said his theory was correct, simply that of the various meanings and commentaries on Revelation, his seemed to make the most sense to me (although before recently I've really never studied eschatology in depth.) I try to be open-minded about such things and view all possible angles hence my recent interest in preterism. I'd still like opinions of my previous questions when time permits.

GW · Jul 24, 2003

frost said:
Well, I never said his theory was correct, simply that of the various meanings and commentaries on Revelation, his seemed to make the most sense to me (although before recently I've really never studied eschatology in depth.) I try to be open-minded about such things and view all possible angles hence my recent interest in preterism. I'd still like opinions of my previous questions when time permits.

I understand that you were only citing Stedman to show one common view that's out there. I simply wanted to ask where the bible teaches anything he is saying? If the bible doesn't teach what he is saying, why should anyone follow him in his belief? Did the apostles believe what Stedman believes about the churches of Asia minor? There is no verse of scripture anywhere that suggests they did.

frost · Jul 25, 2003

GW said:
I understand that you were only citing Stedman to show one common view that's out there. I simply wanted to ask where the bible teaches anything he is saying? If the bible doesn't teach what he is saying, why should anyone follow him in his belief? Did the apostles believe what Stedman believes about the churches of Asia minor? There is no verse of scripture anywhere that suggests they did.

I dont think the Bible does specifally teach what he is saying any more than it says Ezekeil's temple is in fact a reference to Christ or the Church, yet many people beleive it. We just have to draw our own conclusions on some things as they are not explained fully. Anyway, I'm not trying to prove his theory, and I'd like to get back on topic if possible. Have you had a chance to look at my original questions?

GW · Jul 25, 2003

FROST:
I dont think the Bible does specifally teach what he is saying any more than it says Ezekeil's temple is in fact a reference to Christ or the Church, yet many people beleive it.

GW:
The apostles' own first-century expectation of the Parousia entirely nullifies all theories that suggest the seven churches of Rev 2 and 3 are an allegory of some "church age" that was to go on for thousands of years before the Parousia would take place. If Revelation 2 and 3 are to be read as an allegory for a long "church age, then the apostles themselves did not know it--they were expecting Christ's return in their generation. So, that puts that whole theory to rest.

This reminds me of the "1948" thesis so popular with dispensationalists. For if 1948 was really a key event foretold in bible prophecy as futurists claim, Christ and the apostles sure didn't know about it. Their first-century expectation entirely nullifies such futurist theories.

FROST:
Anyway, I'm not trying to prove his theory, and I'd like to get back on topic if possible. Have you had a chance to look at my original questions?

GW:
I personally like to take issues one at a time, or else investigation gets brushed aside. I've been dealing with your question about the relief those Churches expected to get via the Parousia. You asked how the Parousia would change their circumstances, and I'm pointing to Revelation 2 and 3 for the explicit answer. Before we go to another topic, I need to know if you recognize that very specific promises of relief were made to those seven Churches -- I believe it is crucial for futurists to decide whether or not Christ delivered on those promises. Where do you stand on the issue?

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

So then for gw and frost could not defeat me, and i tell them and prove to the preterism is full of errors, they think i must go away.
What better way to examine preterism than force it's followers to defend it. amen
Now concerning the word "generation"
No GREATER proof exists to prove Jesus was refering to both a RACE and a KIND(in similitude), than this passage from Holman's edition of St.Matthew 17:17 to 20.
And now i quote for you preterists "Then Jesus answered and said, O faithless and preverse generation, how long shall i be with you? how long shall I suffer you? Bring him hither to me.
And Jesus rebuked the devil, and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Then came the discipoles to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?
And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: FOR VERILY I SAY UNTO YOU, IF YE HAVE FAITH AS A GRAIN OF MUSTARD-SEED, YE SHALL SAY UNTO THIS MOUNTAIN, REMOVE HENCE TO YOUNDER PLACE; AND IT SHALL REMOVE; and NOTHING SHALL BE IMPOSSIBLE UNTO YOU.
Now as i recall, only Paul was able to cast a mountain into the sea, and Paul said for the gentiles to imitate him.
So little ones, until at least one gentile comes forth and not only says he can do this by Faithe, but shews this forthe to you preterists, then the gentiles have not come into their FULLNESS. amen amen amen
No gentile has yet cast mountains. amen
i who am nothing0 will come and do this for thee.
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen
Yes Lord, many men would that i leave them to their ignorance, but it will no more be the way they have wanted it.
i have come to do what is best for them inspite of what they by the flesh want me to do.
Thankyou Jesus for gw and frost.
They have had me ask you many things for them.

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

Now gw, i expect that you as senior member would be better at educating you fellow preterists.
But you DO NOT.
So for you who did NOT know, Noah Webster used the Holy Bible as THE FOUNDATION for his definations. amen
i am nothing0 and 113% correct in ALL these Spiritual things by The Holy Ghost.
Thankyou Jesus for my brother Noah Webster
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen

GW · Jul 25, 2003

ADELPIT:

Now concerning the word "generation"
No GREATER proof exists to prove Jesus was refering to both a RACE and a KIND(in similitude), than this passage from Holman's edition of St.Matthew 17:17 to 20.

"O faithless and preverse generation, how long shall i be with you? how long shall I suffer you? Bring him hither to me. And Jesus rebuked the devil, and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.
Then came the discipoles to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out? ..."

GW:
Jesus Christ was speaking of his contemporaries. You see, you are going to Mr. Webster to support your view, but I am going to the apostles themselves to support mine. Do the apostles give us the final word on the matter? Yes. They show us explicitly that the generation that witnessed the crucifixion and the resurrection is the generation Jesus means:

Luke 11:29-30
As the crowds were increasing, He began to say, "This generation is a wicked generation; it seeks for a sign, and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah. For just as Jonah became a sign to the Ninevites, so will the Son of Man be to this generation."

--AND COMPARE TO THIS--

Matthew 12:38
Then some of the scribes and Pharisees said to Him, "Teacher, we want to see a sign from You." But He answered and said to them, "An evil and adulterous generation craves for a sign; and yet no sign will be given to it but the sign of Jonah the prophet; for just as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the sea monster, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth... one greater than Jonah is here"

Adelpit, the apostles make it very clear that "this generation" specifically speaks of those contemporaries of Jesus who lived during the time of the Cross and the resurrection. The cross and resurrection took place about 2000 years ago, around AD 30. It took place during their generation.

The apostles are 100% correct, by the Holy Spirit.

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

Here is a hint gw, i am sent to be MORE than the Apostles.
For who is greater? he who sits to judge men next to JESUS, or those given to judge the twelve tribes?
and always i say i am nothing0
Paul has taught me much. And much have you forgotten.
i am here to remind all of their FIRST LOVE. amen
Jesus who is The Lord GOd was speaking of all men that would live up to an including the very DAY He returns in The Fleshly Physical body He took into Third Heaven.
Try harder gw, the more ye fight the more i am increaseD in the knowledge of ALL things. amen
i am nothing0
Thankyou Jesus
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen
When you fall, you will not worry about what the men in this place think of thee, gw for the uplifting that follows will sweep away the fear you have had for what you think they think of you.
i have not that fear, it left me when i FOUND CHARITY. AMEN
i am nothing0
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

HERE IS BY THE LORD GOD JESUS CHRIST OF HAZARETH AS i WHO AM NOTHING0 WAS GIVEN TO KNOW: i ask YOU FATHER, in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, for Jesus to go to osama and sadam as He did with Saul and change them in spirit, arming them with ALL KNOWLEDGE and ALL POWER of Third Heaven so they will be the Two Witnesses brother John spoke of in revelation. i ask YOU to protect and keep them from the statue that Daniel saw so they will not perish from the face of this earth, but will instead be a wounderous sight before All men. amen
i am nothing0 and 116% correct by The Holy Ghost.
P.S. The original 12 Apostles did NOT have All FAITHE nor ALL Knowledge. ONLY PAUL HAD THIS THING AND SAID SO. AMEN AMEN AMEN
The Apostles were shy of 100%.
But no matter, they are SAVED BY JESUS. AMEN AMEN AMEN
Jesus is The Lord1Praise THE LORD1The Lord Jesus. amen

GW · Jul 25, 2003

ADELPIT:
Here is a hint gw, i am sent to be MORE than the Apostles.

GW:
No you are not. Paul said if anyone thought himself to be spiritual, he must submit to Paul's teaching:

1 Corinthians 14:37
If anyone thinks he is a prophet or spiritual, let him recognize that the things which I write to you are the Lord's commandment.

Adelpit, you are not at liberty to say that you are MORE than the apostles of Christ. If you were truly spiritual, you would sumbit your doctrines to the doctrine that THEY taught.

God bless,

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

PLEASE try harder gw.
The faster you complain the faster i am perfected in The LORD. amen
i am nothing0
Jesus is The LORd1Praise The LORD1The Lord Jesus. amen

GW · Jul 25, 2003

Adelpit, I am done speaking with you. Your words have been compared to those of the apostles, and have been shown to be in error.

GW

ByGrace · Jul 25, 2003

Gee adelpit346, could you lighten up? Is there really a need to attack others let alone fellow Christians?

What I would like to ask is this. I understood that the tribulation would last around seven years. And that there would be 1000 years of peace. Please let me know where you feel we are in that time period. Thanks.

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

BE any man gw, or you who can NOT prove anything or anywhere i have therein made an error, then it is not over until the fat lady sings!
i guess i have a sence of humor after all.
Bring in the fat lady with the preterist's rope.
gw don't take it so hard. Being wrong in your case is a blessing!
Thankyou Jesus.
i am nothing0
Jesus is The Lord of fat ladys and preterists1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen
a little levitiy can not hurt.
Try harder gw. Soon you will convence yourself you have erred. amen

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

if there is one thing i know for sure, be careful how much rebuking and edification you give to The Sheep on any one day. amen
So with this in mind, i am going out on the town with my dear wife. amen
i am nothing0 and 117% correct in ALL These Spiritual things by The Holy Ghost.
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen

adelpit346 · Jul 25, 2003

Dear brother grace,
i am not over you, i am under you in all things, for you are the LORD's very own Sheep.
YOUr spirit speaks of you in this.
AS far as what is happening, i would not be here if the anti-christ was not also here.
i am counterbalance.
So then how long will it take me to attain ALL FAITHE?

Go ask gw.
i depend on the seven churches to speed me along.
i have to stop The United States from interfering so satan can go to deceive the jews.
This is all about turning the other cheek and not opposing evil. it is NOT about serving up vengence cold.
The Great Tribulation is in the words of men, immediately upon you.
NOT decades in years as you see them, but less.
Unless i am ofcourse FIRST TRANSLATED, THEN the time is pushed back a little, but not much.
i personally knowing fully what it is like under His rule of a thousand years want this business to be over tomorrow...as in actually as you see tomorrow.
Not as Jesus sees it.
Thanks and i hope my levity has surficed thee.
i am nothing0
Jesus is The Lord1Praise The Lord1The Lord Jesus. amen

AradJohn · Jul 25, 2003

sorry but im confused and the more you guys talk the worse i get.

frost · Jul 25, 2003

GW said:
You asked how the Parousia would change their circumstances, and I'm pointing to Revelation 2 and 3 for the explicit answer. Before we go to another topic, I need to know if you recognize that very specific promises of relief were made to those seven Churches -- I believe it is crucial for futurists to decide whether or not Christ delivered on those promises. Where do you stand on the issue?

Yes, I agree those seven churches were given specific promises of relief from Christ. To be honest, I don't know what happened to those churches after 70 AD so there is no way to tell for sure that all those things happened for them.

GW · Jul 26, 2003

FROST:
Yes, I agree those seven churches were given specific promises of relief from Christ. To be honest, I don't know what happened to those churches after 70 AD so there is no way to tell for sure that all those things happened for them.

GW:
Not just promises of relief...but, in every case, the prescribed relief is said to come via the return of Christ to them to accomplish those things. We therefore have only two choices:

(1) either Christ returned and delivered on those promises to the first-century churches, or...

(2) He did not come again, thus failing to fulfill the promises He made to them, and thus making St. John a false prophet

Which choice do you prefer?

Before you answer, think long and hard about the implications of option No. 2. Christ made specific promises to those churches of Asia Minor, and these were given to them by an apostle under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. IMHO, option number two spells the end of Christianity as the true, holy, and reliable revelation of God to mankind.

What is your answer?

ByGrace · Jul 26, 2003

I know that everything got kind of lost in banned guys diatribe but could you please let me know about where preterism has us standing concerning the prophecies of revelation. Sorry if you have done so already there is just so many attacks by you know who it is hard to sift through. Thanks again.

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