Questions about Christians

[beefpunchard]

Hello all, I'm new around here and have been thinking about how faith happens. I wanted to talk with some christians about their beliefs.

Now full disclosure I am an Atheist, but I am working on not being a jerk about it. I want to know what various christians believe about the core parts of the religion as I see it.

God is omnipotent. God is all good and in Him is no evil at all. God created everything.

So based on the core concepts I have mentioned I have some problems with this god. If he created everything, than he created pedophiles. I hope we can all agree here that the act of pedophila is bad. Well why would a good god create a situation where such an act could occur? I mean if He could not keep sexual attraction to the very young out of creation all together why could he not give children at birth some kind of defence mechanism like a stink sprayer to ward off pervs so they would never actually act on the bad urges.

This is how I think about God, and when I think about Him in that way he just seems impossible.

So how do you guys look at the big G, God. Is He Good or Evil?

 

[Wolf_Says]

Well, I shall answer the question that you are asking, the one in regards to how come God allowed such and such.

The answer is rather simple, but it requires a different angle of thinking.

Yes, God created everything, Yes God is all-powerful, and Yes God is just and kind and love. With this love, God gave mankind the gift of Free Will.

This Free Will that has been given to us, is for us to choose to worship and praise God and turn to Him. If we did not have Free Will, God would be more of a tyrant than a loving Father, because then we would have no choice.

Now, it is thanks to this Free Will that evil occurs in life. Because we have Free Will, and can decide what we want to do, many also choose to use this Free Will and turn away from God and sin. It has been like this since the beginning with Adam and Eve and their fall from Grace.

So yes, God created everybody, all the doctors, policemen, politicians, criminals, everybody. All of us have Free Will that allows us to choose how we live this life.

Those who commit such acts as the one that you described above, utilized their Free Will to commit such an act. It was not God who committed the act, but the person.

What you are suggesting is a shift of blame, from the criminal to the Creator. We are not dogs, who if they are raised badly will behave badly. We have the ability to make our own decisions, and we bear the responsibility for those decisions.

Let me ponder you this:

You agree that murder is wrong, and so is child molestation. Where do you get these concepts of what is good and what is evil?

IF There was no God, no Creator, we would have no idea on what is good and what is evil, all we would have is personal opinion.

If God did not exist, then murder wouldn't be evil. It would only be evil to those who view it as such, but only because they dont agree with it. Not because there is real concept of good and evil, but because of personal opinion. Somebody else's personal opinion could be that murder is not evil and thus the entire argument would fall into a he said she said type situation.

We only have the concepts of good and evil because there is a God, who is good and just, and because there is evil in the fallen angels. These concepts are real and universal, not some abstract thought or personal opinion.

I hope I have answered your question to satisfaction. Have a good day.

 

[Devin P]

Hello all, I'm new around here and have been thinking about how faith happens. I wanted to talk with some christians about their beliefs.

Now full disclosure I am an Atheist, but I am working on not being a jerk about it. I want to know what various christians believe about the core parts of the religion as I see it.

God is omnipotent. God is all good and in Him is no evil at all. God created everything.

So based on the core concepts I have mentioned I have some problems with this god. If he created everything, than he created pedophiles. I hope we can all agree here that the act of pedophila is bad. Well why would a good god create a situation where such an act could occur? I mean if He could not keep sexual attraction to the very young out of creation all together why could he not give children at birth some kind of defence mechanism like a stink sprayer to ward off pervs so they would never actually act on the bad urges.

This is how I think about God, and when I think about Him in that way he just seems impossible.

So how do you guys look at the big G, God. Is He Good or Evil?

Welcome to the forums man!

So, I understand your thinking here. I see what you mean, but going based off of what His word says, who created a pedophile? God all throughout the OT (Old Testament) and the NT (New Testament) talks against the urges that have to be present to manifest themselves as pedophilia. He teaches and commands against such practices.

There is a spirit that causes and has caused people to do things such as that in the bible, but that spirit is the spirit of satan, and not of God. So it wouldnt really be God that created and caused men to commit pedophilia, but satan. God at every point urges and commands against things like this, but knows that men will occasionally do such things, and He hates it. Those people deserve death according to God's word.

 

[beefpunchard]

Let me ponder you this:

You agree that murder is wrong, and so is child molestation. Where do you get these concepts of what is good and what is evil?

IF There was no God, no Creator, we would have no idea on what is good and what is evil, all we would have is personal opinion.

If God did not exist, then murder wouldn't be evil. It would only be evil to those who view it as such, but only because they dont agree with it. Not because there is real concept of good and evil, but because of personal opinion. Somebody else's personal opinion could be that murder is not evil and thus the entire argument would fall into a he said she said type situation.

We only have the concepts of good and evil because there is a God, who is good and just, and because there is evil in the fallen angels. These concepts are real and universal, not some abstract thought or personal opinion.

I hope I have answered your question to satisfaction. Have a good day.

Well I was abused as a very young child. Every time I take a shower I can see the scars. And when I hear of an all loving god I can't believe it.

So to use your argument, the issue is free will. In that I can will for anything, but that does not make it physically possible. The Bible seems to suggest that God takes a physical hand in the events of man. The old testament is fully of stories of God doing something personally, or with some physical effect(Creating and speaking with Adam, the Flood and events of the Ark, The burning bush ect.) So why did I have to have glass in my feet? After all God could still respect my mothers free will to do a bunch of drugs and jam glass into my foot, while at the same time actually protecting me by putting a force field around my foot. Everybody wins in this turn of events. Mom gets freaked out and maybe rethinks her life, I don't get glass in the foot, and God once again proves that He can do anything and is everywhere.

This did not happen. Why? I think it is because God does not exist, or at least does not exist as an omnipotent and all loving being. I would concede that I could believe in a limited god, but not the God as depicted in Judeo Christian faiths. How do you respond?

 

[beefpunchard]

Welcome to the forums man!

So, I understand your thinking here. I see what you mean, but going based off of what His word says, who created a pedophile? God all throughout the OT (Old Testament) and the NT (New Testament) talks against the urges that have to be present to manifest themselves as pedophilia. He teaches and commands against such practices.

There is a spirit that causes and has caused people to do things such as that in the bible, but that spirit is the spirit of satan, and not of God. So it wouldnt really be God that created and caused men to commit pedophilia, but satan. God at every point urges and commands against things like this, but knows that men will occasionally do such things, and He hates it. Those people deserve death according to God's word.

Right I agree, but why does god not give us automatic defence measures to protect against people who indulge the baser urges. I mean, taken to the extreme god would know a pedophile was about to molest a child. So why do we not have something like a skunks stink glands to deter attackers? Or maybe we could have retractive spikes in all of our holes so if someone enters with out consent the get hurt?

 

[Wolf_Says]

Well I was abused as a very young child. Every time I take a shower I can see the scars. And when I hear of an all loving god I can't believe it.

So to use your argument, the issue is free will. In that I can will for anything, but that does not make it physically possible. The Bible seems to suggest that God takes a physical hand in the events of man. The old testament is fully of stories of God doing something personally, or with some physical effect(Creating and speaking with Adam, the Flood and events of the Ark, The burning bush ect.) So why did I have to have glass in my feet? After all God could still respect my mothers free will to do a bunch of drugs and jam glass into my foot, while at the same time actually protecting me by putting a force field around my foot. Everybody wins in this turn of events. Mom gets freaked out and maybe rethinks her life, I don't get glass in the foot, and God once again proves that He can do anything and is everywhere.

This did not happen. Why? I think it is because God does not exist, or at least does not exist as an omnipotent and all loving being. I would concede that I could believe in a limited god, but not the God as depicted in Judeo Christian faiths. How do you respond?

First, let me say that I am sorry that this happened to you. As a child, that must have been terrible.

Now, to answer your question.

Yes, in the OT and even in the NT, you do see God intervene sometimes here on earth. But this is not always the case, and the reason, I believe, is because we all have our own crosses that we need to bear.

Nobody has a perfect life, and whether the scars of this life are visible or not, there are still scars from the crosses that we bear.

I wont go into what my crosses are, as that is not important to the discussion, and because I am not God, I also don't have and cannot have all the answers as to why God allowed you to be harmed as a child.

However, lets try and put this into some perspective. From your abuse as a child, what have you gained from it? I assume that you have gained a highly protective position towards young children. I also assume that you have gained a place in your heart for victims of abuse.

Now, these are good things that have come from a terrible event. With our crosses, we should strive to make this world a better place, and to bring people closer towards God. With your cross, I could easily see you becoming a child advocate, or a social worker, and using your new gifts for good, if only to prevent other children from going what you went through.

Jesus, the only Son of God the Father, was scourged, whipped, stabbed with thorns, mocked, and then finally nailed to a cross, and stabbed in the side and died. God never promised that life would be easy, or that it would be free from pain and hardships. But because hardships happen, does not mean that God does not love you or care.

If you only focus on the negative, all you will see is negative.

So to be blunt, the reason why this terrible event happened to you, is not that God doesn't care or doesn't exist, but is probably to help you. Now I know that seems to make absolutely ZERO sense, but think about it. If this had never happened to you, who would you be today? Would you still have the same depth of love and compassion towards children and victims of abuse as you do now? Would you have the gift of being able to actually UNDERSTAND the victims and grow close to them? To help them open up?

If what I am assuming is correct, and you can let me know if I am wrong, then what you now have is a gift, that nobody who was never abused can have. They cannot achieve the same level of understanding as you, the same level of compassion and love for those victims as you. Why? Because they never experienced what it was like to be a victim, where you have.

Honestly, I hope this answers your question. Once again, have a good day.

 

[Radagast]

Now full disclosure I am an Atheist

You're talking about the "problem of evil." It's not a new question, and many, many books have been written in response to it. Someone has already given you the standard "free will" answer. Another answer is given by Dorothy Sayers:

“‘Why doesn’t God smite [him] dead?’ is a question a little remote from us. Why madam, did He not strike you dumb and imbecile before you uttered that baseless and unkind slander the day before yesterday? Or me, before I behaved with such cruel lack of consideration to that well-meaning friend? And why, sir, did He not cause your hand to rot off at the wrist before you signed your name to that dirty little bit of financial trickery?

You did not quite mean that? But why not? Your misdeeds and mine are none the less repellent because our opportunities for doing damage are less spectacular that those of some other people. Do you suggest that your doings and mine are too trivial for God to bother about? That cuts both ways; for, in that case, it would make precious little difference to His creation if He wiped us both out tomorrow.”

As Christians, we realise that the problem is not just one or two bad people. The problem is everybody. The whole human race is broken, and the whole human race needs to be fixed. That means that the solution is deeper, more complex, and longer-term than just stopping one or two of the worst people. And that's exactly the kind of solution we say that God actually did come up with.

 

[Neal of Zebulun]

I think Romans 9:18-23 will help answer that question.

Seek Yahweh

 

[drjean]

Hi. So many people have suffered all types of abuses by the hands of evil people.
But God created all things good. The evil came because of free will. Evil turned good things and good people into evil things and evil people.

Please don't blame God for evil people and events. He is the only one Who can give closure to trauma. God loves you. He didn't cause what happened. He does promise to make all things right---and as it turns out that will be very soon!

God tells us that He has put knowledge of Himself within each one of us. I believe that is why you are seeking...why you are asking...because you know there is more, there is something to "this" believing in God. Talk to Him... challenge Him to show you that HE IS. He will.

 

[Basil the Great]

There is a book that I read 20+ years ago that was written by Rabbi Kushner. He had lost a child and he was trying to come to grips with the loss. So he wrote the book, "When Bad Things Happen to Good People". As I recall, his way of dealing with his loss and not to blame God, was to come up with the view that God is not all-powerful and/or all-knowing, etc. While his book was most interesting and a worthwhile read at that, it should be pointed out that his premise conflicts with both traditional Christianity and traditional Judaism. While I sympathize with the Rabbi's loss and it is a terrible loss to lose a child, his conclusion would seem to be flawed. If a Supreme Being is so powerful that He could create this Universe and sustain it, then it would appear that he is all-powerful and all-knowing.

 

[Rescued One]

Hello all, I'm new around here and have been thinking about how faith happens. I wanted to talk with some christians about their beliefs.

Now full disclosure I am an Atheist, but I am working on not being a jerk about it. I want to know what various christians believe about the core parts of the religion as I see it.

God is omnipotent. God is all good and in Him is no evil at all. God created everything. He also comforts, and sustains us is this life, and He glorifies us in the next.
So based on the core concepts I have mentioned I have some problems with this god. If he created everything, than he created pedophiles. I hope we can all agree here that the act of pedophila is bad. Well why would a good god create a situation where such an act could occur? I mean if He could not keep sexual attraction to the very young out of creation all together why could he not give children at birth some kind of defence mechanism like a stink sprayer to ward off pervs so they would never actually act on the bad urges.

This is how I think about God, and when I think about Him in that way he just seems impossible.

So how do you guys look at the big G, God. Is He Good or Evil?

God is good because He does what is right. He punishes evil and He chastises Christians. He also comforts and helps us when things are difficult.

Adam caused the sin in this world by his disobedience. God allows evil so we can recognize His goodness and that is rewarding to us.

 

[Radagast]

There is a book that I read 20+ years ago that was written by Rabbi Kushner.

That book is not Christian teaching. A much better book would be this one:

 

[Basil the Great]

The Rabbi's book is obviously not Christian teaching. I pretty much stated as such. However, he still makes some valid points to help people in pain.

 

[Radagast]

The Rabbi's book is obviously not Christian teaching. I pretty much stated as such. However, he still makes some valid points to help people in pain.

Given that he teaches the wrong idea about God, his book is actively harmful.

If you want to help people in pain, there are plenty of Christian books out there.

 

[Devin P]

Right I agree, but why does god not give us automatic defence measures to protect against people who indulge the baser urges. I mean, taken to the extreme god would know a pedophile was about to molest a child. So why do we not have something like a skunks stink glands to deter attackers? Or maybe we could have retractive spikes in all of our holes so if someone enters with out consent the get hurt?

Great question! Absolutely great question, I've legitimately never heard of it before.

Well, in my opinion, it'd be because (I could be wrong, but follow me) God created Adam, and all of us are made after him, but God desired for Adam to remain in the garden. What's my point? Well, we are made in the image of God, but the design with which we're made, was only ever designed once. With Adam, and it was designed to be forever in the garden. Once we fell, He never updated our design.

So, to include spikes and such into our design, He'd have to had made them before the fall, with the intention that we would need that protection before the need of it would even arise. He'd have to make us, imperfectly.

You'll note that all throughout the bible, the ways He asks us to walk in, He constantly says aren't too hard for us to do, but warns against the spirits and the people that make it seem harder than it truly is.

My point is, I feel that in order to give us these defenses, it'd be merely like prescribing a medication to alleviate the symptoms of a disease, instead of curing the disease itself. He'd only be preventing (in some cases due to the defenses, and not in others when ways are found around them) the assault of a child, instead of healing and sustaining the character and heart of the individual that would do the assaulting, if that makes sense to you.

That, and, in order for Him to give us those defenses, (this is the biggest one) He'd be saying that us having those urges, was what He intended, which it never was. HaShatan (Hebrew for "the enemy" or "the adversary" - where we get the word satan from) refers to many spirits, that have collectively led us astray in all manners of things. All of it goes back to obedience. Either we adhere to יהוה (YHWH in english, and even more commonly in english, God) or we adhere to HaShatan (the enemy), we can't adhere to both, but for God to include those things into our anatomy, He'd have to be saying that we aren't made to adhere to Him, but to the enemy. But, the bible is a constant love story between Him and us, telling us that this isn't so. That we are meant to adhere to Him and Him alone, and while it's hard, with faith, and the gift of perseverance, He will carry us through it.

Our flesh hates to adhere and listen to Him yes, but His spirit, resides in His chosen, and though their flesh rebells, their hearts, and minds, (reflecting His spirit) desire to obey Him. It's one of the reasons I'm against the modern doctrine christianity is teaching and has been for 1700 some odd years, because when you read through the Bible from cover to cover, you can clearly see that the law of God was never done away with, considering if Jesus did do away with it, He'd be sinning, and would therefore be contradicting the entire story, but I digress, I'm getting on a tangent.

 

[A_Thinker]

Hello all, I'm new around here and have been thinking about how faith happens. I wanted to talk with some christians about their beliefs.

Now full disclosure I am an Atheist, but I am working on not being a jerk about it. I want to know what various christians believe about the core parts of the religion as I see it.

God is omnipotent. God is all good and in Him is no evil at all. God created everything.

So based on the core concepts I have mentioned I have some problems with this god. If he created everything, than he created pedophiles. I hope we can all agree here that the act of pedophila is bad. Well why would a good god create a situation where such an act could occur? I mean if He could not keep sexual attraction to the very young out of creation all together why could he not give children at birth some kind of defence mechanism like a stink sprayer to ward off pervs so they would never actually act on the bad urges.

This is how I think about God, and when I think about Him in that way he just seems impossible.

So how do you guys look at the big G, God. Is He Good or Evil?

Often, when I think of God, I think of Him in the sense of those planet seeders that many science fiction movies portray.

One such movie is Contact, with Jodie Foster. In Contact, Earth is contacted with a message sent by an obviously technologically superior presence in the universe. The message, once decoded by Earth's scientists (including Jodie Foster's character), ... turns out to be the design for a machine which will allow a passenger to travel through worm holes to distant points of the galaxy.

After Earth's governments assent to cooperate to fund and build the machine, Jodie Foster's character is allowed to make the first solo journey in the machine. During the journey, she sees much evidence of advanced galactic civilizations, ... and, ultimately comes to meet with an alien presence which indicates that Earth was indeed seeded, ... and the galactic civilizations has been waiting patiently for Earth's inhabitants to prove themselves (technologically and morally) worthy of being introduced to the galactic confederation of cooperating civilizations.

By the way, ... there's much more to the movie (there's a book, too), ... if you'd care to check it out.

My point is ... the establishment of life upon Earth (by Seeders in various stories) ... is, generally, seen as a positive (i.e. GOOD) action, ... which, however, will involve the development of some degree of evil upon the Earth as well. However, the hope is that our good will ultimately overcome our evil impulses ... and carry us on to a higher moral and technological level of living in the universe, ... ultimately, alongside those that seeded us.

This same kind of thinking can extend to one's perception of God ... Who created mankind for purpose of GOOD, yet knew that,, ultimately EVIL must be faced, addressed, and conquered, for His GOOD intentions to come to fruition.

 

[Petros2015]

So how do you guys look at the big G, God. Is He Good or Evil?

In His absence, there is Evil. In His Presence there is Good. It depends on how far people have pushed Him out, or invited him in. I like the prayer of St. Francis:

“Lord, make me an channel of thy peace,
That where there is hatred, I may bring love,
That where there is wrong, I may bring the spirit of forgiveness,
That where there is discord, I may bring harmony,
That where there is error, I may bring truth,
That where there is doubt, I may bring faith,
That where there is despair, I may bring hope,
That where there are shadows, I may bring light
That where there is sadness, I may bring joy.
Lord, grant that I may seek rather to comfort, than to be comforted,
To understand, than to be understood,
To love, than to be loved,
For it is by self-forgetting that one finds,
It is by forgiving that one is forgiven,
It is by dying that one awakens to eternal life. Amen.”

We are channels, ultimately, through which God can flow.

There is an acronym in recovery circles though, for Ego.
It is "Edging God Out". We do this when we try to play God ourselves in our minds or with others. You'll see it in it's extreme in the massacres and the rapes. You'll see it anywhere Self tries to justify Self above God, where it prefers resentment to repentance, darkness to light.

We can push God out if we want, but as we do so we push out Light, Love, Sanity, Mercy, Humility and all those qualities that we would call Good since He is the Author of them. The result is inevitable. And nature abhors a vacuum.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Hello all, I'm new around here and have been thinking about how faith happens. I wanted to talk with some christians about their beliefs.

Now full disclosure I am an Atheist, but I am working on not being a jerk about it. I want to know what various christians believe about the core parts of the religion as I see it.

God is omnipotent. God is all good and in Him is no evil at all. God created everything.

So based on the core concepts I have mentioned I have some problems with this god. If he created everything, than he created pedophiles. I hope we can all agree here that the act of pedophila is bad. Well why would a good god create a situation where such an act could occur? I mean if He could not keep sexual attraction to the very young out of creation all together why could he not give children at birth some kind of defence mechanism like a stink sprayer to ward off pervs so they would never actually act on the bad urges.

This is how I think about God, and when I think about Him in that way he just seems impossible.

So how do you guys look at the big G, God. Is He Good or Evil?

Christian teaching is that creation is not as it ought to be at present, because of sin and death. It is precisely that creation--and we ourselves as human beings--are out of whack that we need the salvation from God which is found in Christ. Salvation and redemption aren't just about us "going to heaven" or anything like that, it's about God setting the world to rights, healing and renewing and restoring His creation. Which is why Christians look forward to the future resurrection of the dead and the future life of the Age to Come when God makes all things new.

If things were as they should be, then there would be no suffering, no pain, no death, and no child abusers.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[“Paisios”]

Hello all, I'm new around here and have been thinking about how faith happens. I wanted to talk with some christians about their beliefs.

Now full disclosure I am an Atheist, but I am working on not being a jerk about it. I want to know what various christians believe about the core parts of the religion as I see it.

God is omnipotent. God is all good and in Him is no evil at all. God created everything.

So based on the core concepts I have mentioned I have some problems with this god. If he created everything, than he created pedophiles. I hope we can all agree here that the act of pedophila is bad. Well why would a good god create a situation where such an act could occur? I mean if He could not keep sexual attraction to the very young out of creation all together why could he not give children at birth some kind of defence mechanism like a stink sprayer to ward off pervs so they would never actually act on the bad urges.

This is how I think about God, and when I think about Him in that way he just seems impossible.

So how do you guys look at the big G, God. Is He Good or Evil?

My answer to the problem of evil and suffering is I don’t know. I don’t know why so many terrible things happen and why God allows them (and I, like many others have experienced my share of pain and loss, including as a child having my mother ripped from my hands and killed in front of me).

But at my lowest, when I wanted to die, I met God, and found that He was loving, that He cared, and that He was with me. And in His presence I felt and feel like a small child who doesn’t understand all that is happening, but knows that he can trust Him to take care of him. This experience was real enough to me to save my life, and to completely change the direction I was taking in life, and it has sustained me for more than 30 years.

I can’t give any proof of this, nor can I make any rational, logical, or scientific argument to support it. I am not a Christian apologist, and won’t try to argue for the existence of God. I can only share my story, and live my life doing my best to reflect Him and glorify Him, in love and gratitude.

I guess my belief is not so much an intellectual idea but an existential encounter.

 

[Sketcher]

So based on the core concepts I have mentioned I have some problems with this god. If he created everything, than he created pedophiles. I hope we can all agree here that the act of pedophila is bad. Well why would a good god create a situation where such an act could occur? I mean if He could not keep sexual attraction to the very young out of creation all together why could he not give children at birth some kind of defence mechanism like a stink sprayer to ward off pervs so they would never actually act on the bad urges.

That defense is usually called "parents."

Well I was abused as a very young child. Every time I take a shower I can see the scars. And when I hear of an all loving god I can't believe it.

So to use your argument, the issue is free will. In that I can will for anything, but that does not make it physically possible. The Bible seems to suggest that God takes a physical hand in the events of man. The old testament is fully of stories of God doing something personally, or with some physical effect(Creating and speaking with Adam, the Flood and events of the Ark, The burning bush ect.) So why did I have to have glass in my feet? After all God could still respect my mothers free will to do a bunch of drugs and jam glass into my foot, while at the same time actually protecting me by putting a force field around my foot. Everybody wins in this turn of events. Mom gets freaked out and maybe rethinks her life, I don't get glass in the foot, and God once again proves that He can do anything and is everywhere.

This did not happen. Why? I think it is because God does not exist, or at least does not exist as an omnipotent and all loving being. I would concede that I could believe in a limited god, but not the God as depicted in Judeo Christian faiths. How do you respond?

Sorry that happened to you, first of all.

The Bible does describe many events where God did intervene on the behalf of his followers. But these interventions were out of the ordinary. It describes many more injustices that he said he would punish. The Scriptures we have came from a people familiar with suffering, oppression, and war crimes. God spoke against these vile deeds, but they still happened. Their occurrence however does not disprove the existence or supremacy of God, or what it teaches about his character ("all-loving" isn't one of those traits per se, but "very loving" is). If it did, I don't see how Judaism would have survived to the point in time that Jesus came into the world, I really don't.