Questioning the Power of God's Forgiveness

[ValleyGal]

The man in the OP is a fully grown adult who can make his own decisions of who to marry and who not to marry. In fact, those who judge the woman are suggesting that this man is incapable of making his own choices. If he has half a brain, he is well aware of her past and the possible ramifications of marrying into it and he likely knows her far better than those who judge her know her. However, a child....as the conversation here has turned to...does not have the brain of an adult and they require adults to make those decisions for them. They do not have "capacity" for informed consent, etc. The young man in the OP should not be judged by those in the church, nor should the woman. And comparing this to a child molesting scenario is, imo, totally uncalled for because it is not even close in nature.

 

[razzelflabben]

The man in the OP is a fully grown adult who can make his own decisions of who to marry and who not to marry. In fact, those who judge the woman are suggesting that this man is incapable of making his own choices. If he has half a brain, he is well aware of her past and the possible ramifications of marrying into it and he likely knows her far better than those who judge her know her. However, a child....as the conversation here has turned to...does not have the brain of an adult and they require adults to make those decisions for them. They do not have "capacity" for informed consent, etc. The young man in the OP should not be judged by those in the church, nor should the woman. And comparing this to a child molesting scenario is, imo, totally uncalled for because it is not even close in nature.

I just reread the OP story to make sure that I was above reproach....two important things were true in the story...1. we do not know from the story what was being said, only that things escalated. and 2. the point was about how complete God's forgiveness is. therefore, I will have to disagree with you. Here is why 1. you make judgments about what some in the church were saying without evidence to make those judgment calls. In fact, all you know is that there was a disagreement, and it involved the woman's past. Personally, having been a pastors wife and having a husband who is both an MK and a PK and a pastor, I can totally get why some would want to warn the pastors son about what the woman's reputation could mean to his ministry. Like it or not, the world is a very cruel place. NO, before you twist my words, I AM NOT SAYING THAT ANYONE HAS A RIGHT TO MAKE THE DECISION FOR THEM, rather what I am saying is that saying to the young man, have you thought about the consequence her past will have on your life, your future, and your ministry is NOT judgment, it is wise counsel. For all we know, the argument was because some, like we see in this thread, didn't like the idea that anyone might mention the truth to the young man, which btw would mean that he was not being loved.

2. as to the comparison, the topic of the thread is how complete is the forgiveness of God. You mention consequences which were already talked about in this thread, but was a valid point the first time they were mentioned and still valid now even though we already talked about it. Here is the problem with you trying to distinguish between the two groups as per forgiveness. Consequences pertain to both, right across the board. There are consequences for the young couple in the story just as their are consequences for the child molester. Neither lose that just because God has forgiven them. Therefore, distinguishing between adults and children is not important to a discussion about whether or not God's forgiveness is enough to erase the consequences of our past, it is only important if we change the topic of the thread, which is why I suggested we stick to topic and why I reread the article to make sure I wasn't at fault on changing the topic.

 

[razzelflabben]

Let me lay a true story on you all, which illustrates my point. Two men in our church, did drugs together. One confessed to doing those drugs and confessed to repenting and seeking accountability in order to remain righteous. That man was denied any opportunity to help in the church because he had been arrested in his past for drugs.

Man two, didn't want to confess to doing drugs, but was confronted by a brother who had something against him (drug use when he claimed to no longer be doing it) Man two refused to deal with the issue and so Matt. 18 was taken into consideration and long story made really short, the issue became known before the church. This second man claimed that it was in his past, that he was free, that he didn't need accountability, and that he did nothing wrong by going to his dealer and joining in the "fun" when he was not suppose to be there, because he was forgiven. The church responded by giving him all kinds of jobs in the church, in fact, jobs that he should never have had to start out with. He was given power and authority and responsibility over every, including but not limited to children. The excuse given was that he had never been arrested, therefore it was okay.

Now, we are talking about a consistency across the board. Thus the comparison between the woman in the story and a child molester, both forgiven, one accepted the other not. In this real life story of two men doing drugs, the consistency was broken simply because one man was caught by the police and the other man wasn't. It's the same problem, God is consistent, man is not. Man picks and chooses what or who will be treated with forgiveness and who will not be. Some here are trying desperately to make the two different using excuses like one is about children one is about adults, one is evil one is just making mistakes, etc. when in reality, all we are doing is what happened to the two men in this story, we are drawing random lines to justify our own hierarchy of what we will tolerate and in doing so, we are judging others for the lines they draw, so that we can sound more "spiritual" than those whose lines are different than our own.

 

[DZoolander]

Well, I don't ever try to sound spiritual in my arguments

To be honest, I'm pretty disinterested in issues of salvation/redemption when it comes to gauging things like that/how to look at others in every day life. I figure issues of sin between man and his creator are between them and completely unknown to me. Therefore - someone attesting that they are saved/whatever has no bearing in my decision making process. They may or may not be - it's not my business.

Everything relevant to me then is simply risk assessment on a very practical/earthly level.

 

[razzelflabben]

Well, I don't ever try to sound spiritual in my arguments

To be honest, I'm pretty disinterested in issues of salvation/redemption when it comes to gauging things like that/how to look at others in every day life. I figure issues of sin between man and his creator are between them and completely unknown to me. Therefore - someone attesting that they are saved/whatever has no bearing in my decision making process. They may or may not be - it's not my business.

Everything relevant to me then is simply risk assessment on a very practical/earthly level.

and you are one of how many on this thread? (rhetorical question)

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Once again, as a woman with a history, I find it rather abhorrent that it would affect my husband's ministry - the whole point of Jesus ministry was ministering to those who have sinned.

If my "history" makes me unfit to marry a pastor's son, EVERYONE'S history makes them unfit to marry anyone else.

If you're going to say "that woman's history will affect your ministry" then you better be following that up with "your whole congregation's sins will affect your ministry".

I think I have a pretty good perspective on this matter, being that I am actually a pastor's wife, and I'll tell ya right now - if ANYONE of you came to me with that kind of attitude I'd shut you down in a heartbeat.

 

[ValleyGal]

Exactly, PW. No one - NO one - can throw that first stone. Period. I don't care how narcissistic someone is - they are still not worthy to throw that stone even if they think they are. The pastor's son is not so stupid he is unfit to choose his own wife and I doubt that he was naive enough to not know about her past.

I am not a PW or a PK, but I have had best friends who were, all my life, and many different ones. And believe me, not all of them are angels either. In fact, one of them I knew a long time ago - a PK - had more of a "history" with men than me and all my other friends put together. Her future husband perhaps should have been "warned" about her..... ? No. That is between them and God. Period. The church has no right to judge or "warn"...it is not their right, and it is not their position. A PK is no different from anyone else in the world. In fact, neither is a pastor or his wife... and we should not be putting expectations on them that are above anyone else. A pastor, maybe, because there are biblical guidelines. But a pastor's son or wife? Seriously, where do people in the church get off judging who the guy marries? It's just not their business.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

Exactly, PW. No one - NO one - can throw that first stone. Period. I don't care how narcissistic someone is - they are still not worthy to throw that stone even if they think they are. The pastor's son is not so stupid he is unfit to choose his own wife and I doubt that he was naive enough to not know about her past.

I am not a PW or a PK, but I have had best friends who were, all my life, and many different ones. And believe me, not all of them are angels either. In fact, one of them I knew a long time ago - a PK - had more of a "history" with men than me and all my other friends put together. Her future husband perhaps should have been "warned" about her..... ? No. That is between them and God. Period. The church has no right to judge or "warn"...it is not their right, and it is not their position. A PK is no different from anyone else in the world. In fact, neither is a pastor or his wife... and we should not be putting expectations on them that are above anyone else. A pastor, maybe, because there are biblical guidelines. But a pastor's son or wife? Seriously, where do people in the church get off judging who the guy marries? It's just not their business.

I could hug you 1,000 times for that.

 

[DZoolander]

I agree - people ought not intrude in each other's business like that. Let people decide for themselves what's good for them.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By ValleyGal
Exactly, PW. No one - NO one - can throw that first stone. Period.

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I think that it has been established that none of us, that church congregation, or anyone in the world is without sin and can throw the first stone. We all agree that Jesus’s blood can wash away any sin. We see this clearly in the scripture in John chapter 8. That I think has been settled so I am not going to present those issues in this post.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Earlier I asked a question of the women but did not get any answers. I am going to ask another question and hope that someone answers. My question has the premises of dealing with making choices about your lifelong marriage partner. My question is NOT about anyone being without sin and casting the first store or doubting that Jesus’s blood can wash away sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Questions for all:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Take the scenario where the man has cheated on his girlfriends and his wife, lies all the time, abuses his wife, and does not consistently support his family. This man has now accepted the Christian life and has his sins forgiven by the blood of Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How many of you women would think twice about being with him?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why or why not?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How many of you women would think twice about having your daughter marry this man?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why or why not?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the men you can reverse the genders and answer.[/FONT]

 

[ValleyGal]

Stan, in the OP, the woman had a rough lifestyle of drugs, prostitution. There was nothing about cheating. A cheat needs to earn trust, yes. A woman who was a prostitute does not need to earn trust because she did not cheat...she was forthcoming about her past and her life is fruitful since her conversion.

My husband was an alcoholic. But since his conversion - that is, when he discovered what it means to be in relationship with God through Jesus - he has been fruitful and clean. I married him knowing that if he takes a drink, it could undo all that, but his 18 years or so of sobriety is enough that I trust him.

I have an unpleasant history with partying, drinking too much (binging), being a tease with the men I partied with, etc. But since my conversion, I have been faithful to Christ and the years of Christian fruitfulness has proven my faith. He married me knowing that I have been divorced multiple times and have a past.

The woman in the OP did not have to prove herself to anyone because she did not victimize anyone. In your scenario, a man cheated, lied, abused...iow, he had victims. Of course it would be a concern....until enough time had passed that he had earned the trust of his church community.

The woman in the OP did not have victims and she had earned trust in her church community. That is a lot different. Imo, it makes a difference when there is a victim.

There is a woman in my church whose sister's husband is a pastor, and she had been a PK. I heard her testimony during this spring and was shocked to know that she had prostituted herself, was addicted to cocaine, and had a very rough past. Today she is happily married with a couple of young children, and she is an upstanding member of our church. I would have no problem with her being a pastor's wife, if that is what her husband chose to pursue. She is quite frankly, a lovely lady.

Likewise, if a young woman like her caught my son's attention, I would be fine with it, given a time of trust-building. However, if the woman was an abuser, consistently lied and cheated, etc, then her life is not producing the fruit expected of a believer. But...if those behaviours were in the past and she proved herself with a fruitful Christian life, and there was no abuse, lies, cheating during a relationship with my son, then I would support a marriage - cautiously. It is not my place to tell my son who he can and can't marry, but I would support his decisions. Imo, it would be my place - whether she has a past or not - to have a mom/son chat about how his girlfriend treats him during dating as well as again when they are nearing a wedding. That said, it is NOT the place of the church to decide that he needs to "know" about what the woman was known to do in the past prior to her proving her Christian faithfulness.

 

[DZoolander]

I'm curious... For the women who are taking the position of "the past is the past" - let's say you met a man who confessed that back in college he had performed [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] on a few dudes..."but it was only a few times long ago".

Would that impact on his dateability in your eyes? lol

 

[razzelflabben]

Once again, as a woman with a history, I find it rather abhorrent that it would affect my husband's ministry - the whole point of Jesus ministry was ministering to those who have sinned.

there is always a cost to sin, just like there is a cost to following Jesus, in this thread we have called that cost consequences. think about the story of the woman who washed Jesus feet with her tears. There was a consequence of that love act on Jesus ministry. Just because there is a consequence doesn't mean you aren't or shouldn't be willing to pay the price, it just means you need to be fully aware of the consequences before committing to it. In our relationship with Christ, the Brethren use the term, counting the cost. It's all the same idea. Like it or not, there are consequences and the man/woman who does not weigh them before committing to something is not very wise.

If my "history" makes me unfit to marry a pastor's son, EVERYONE'S history makes them unfit to marry anyone else.

Not sure how you are getting from a discussion about consequences to unfit, but that would be a discussion to have with someone who thinks they are one and the same, not with me.

If you're going to say "that woman's history will affect your ministry" then you better be following that up with "your whole congregation's sins will affect your ministry".

amen...all sin affects our ministries which is why righteousness is so important to God as is change happening in the power of the HS not our own. But again, that is a different topic.

I think I have a pretty good perspective on this matter, being that I am actually a pastor's wife, and I'll tell ya right now - if ANYONE of you came to me with that kind of attitude I'd shut you down in a heartbeat.

hum....this is really the first time you have every been confronted with the idea that sin holds consequences that do affect our ministries....a pastors wife who doesn't even know the story of the woman who washed the feet of Jesus with her tears? or the stoning where Jesus wrote in the dust? or many other stories of Jesus ministry being affect by who He spent time with and how He loved? How did you become a pastors wife without knowing these stories? or are you overreacting to what is being said?

 

[razzelflabben]

Exactly, PW. No one - NO one - can throw that first stone. Period. I don't care how narcissistic someone is - they are still not worthy to throw that stone even if they think they are. The pastor's son is not so stupid he is unfit to choose his own wife and I doubt that he was naive enough to not know about her past.

I am not a PW or a PK, but I have had best friends who were, all my life, and many different ones. And believe me, not all of them are angels either. In fact, one of them I knew a long time ago - a PK - had more of a "history" with men than me and all my other friends put together. Her future husband perhaps should have been "warned" about her..... ? No. That is between them and God. Period. The church has no right to judge or "warn"...it is not their right, and it is not their position. A PK is no different from anyone else in the world. In fact, neither is a pastor or his wife... and we should not be putting expectations on them that are above anyone else. A pastor, maybe, because there are biblical guidelines. But a pastor's son or wife? Seriously, where do people in the church get off judging who the guy marries? It's just not their business.

Hummm...should I show you all the passages about church discipline and the job of the church being encouraging one another unto righteousness? I remember you saying once that you have some anabaptist background. The Brethren are anabaptist, and that is where their saying and belief about counting the cost comes from. There is a cost to following God, there is a cost to sinning, there is a cost to marrying someone with a rough history. Just because we talk about the cost doesn't mean you should change your mind about your covenant to that, it simply means you are going into it with your eyes opened to many of the pitfalls that you might encounter. I'm surprised that so many people on this thread, people that claim to be wise counselors, don't understand the need to know what dangers might be ahead before jumping into something with both feet. For example, in our counseling class for addiction, one of the big things that is stressed is that the person trying to free themselves from the addiction as well as the family and friends that will help them, know that it will be a tough road, that there will be set backs, that urges will still come, that they need to be cautioned. Just because we lay out these warning doesn't mean we are trying to talk them out of finding healing it means that they enter the healing process with eyes opened, not tightly shut.

 

[razzelflabben]

[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]I think that it has been established that none of us, that church congregation, or anyone in the world is without sin and can throw the first stone. We all agree that Jesus’s blood can wash away any sin. We see this clearly in the scripture in John chapter 8. That I think has been settled so I am not going to present those issues in this post.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Earlier I asked a question of the women but did not get any answers. I am going to ask another question and hope that someone answers. My question has the premises of dealing with making choices about your lifelong marriage partner. My question is NOT about anyone being without sin and casting the first store or doubting that Jesus’s blood can wash away sin.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Questions for all:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] Take the scenario where the man has cheated on his girlfriends and his wife, lies all the time, abuses his wife, and does not consistently support his family. This man has now accepted the Christian life and has his sins forgiven by the blood of Jesus.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How many of you women would think twice about being with him?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why or why not?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]How many of you women would think twice about having your daughter marry this man?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Why or why not?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot] [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]For the men you can reverse the genders and answer.[/FONT]

My answer is the same as the one I gave for the OP story. I would in the case of my daughter or son, warn them of the potential consequences and then support their decision. In my case, I would heed warnings and then prayerfully consider based on my eyes being opened, not shut.

 

[razzelflabben]

Stan, in the OP, the woman had a rough lifestyle of drugs, prostitution. There was nothing about cheating. A cheat needs to earn trust, yes. A woman who was a prostitute does not need to earn trust because she did not cheat...she was forthcoming about her past and her life is fruitful since her conversion.

My husband was an alcoholic. But since his conversion - that is, when he discovered what it means to be in relationship with God through Jesus - he has been fruitful and clean. I married him knowing that if he takes a drink, it could undo all that, but his 18 years or so of sobriety is enough that I trust him.

I have an unpleasant history with partying, drinking too much (binging), being a tease with the men I partied with, etc. But since my conversion, I have been faithful to Christ and the years of Christian fruitfulness has proven my faith. He married me knowing that I have been divorced multiple times and have a past.

The woman in the OP did not have to prove herself to anyone because she did not victimize anyone. In your scenario, a man cheated, lied, abused...iow, he had victims. Of course it would be a concern....until enough time had passed that he had earned the trust of his church community.

two questions, 1. how is the forgiveness different in the cases you present. You keep trying to draw lines of distinction when in fact, it is the same forgiveness. and 2. where in the OP story is there any indication of how long the woman has had to "prove" or rebuild her "trust" with the church community. It says there was an obvious difference but that does not equal time to rebuild trust.

The woman in the OP did not have victims and she had earned trust in her church community. That is a lot different. Imo, it makes a difference when there is a victim.

There is a woman in my church whose sister's husband is a pastor, and she had been a PK. I heard her testimony during this spring and was shocked to know that she had prostituted herself, was addicted to cocaine, and had a very rough past. Today she is happily married with a couple of young children, and she is an upstanding member of our church. I would have no problem with her being a pastor's wife, if that is what her husband chose to pursue. She is quite frankly, a lovely lady.

Likewise, if a young woman like her caught my son's attention, I would be fine with it, given a time of trust-building. However, if the woman was an abuser, consistently lied and cheated, etc, then her life is not producing the fruit expected of a believer. But...if those behaviours were in the past and she proved herself with a fruitful Christian life, and there was no abuse, lies, cheating during a relationship with my son, then I would support a marriage - cautiously. It is not my place to tell my son who he can and can't marry, but I would support his decisions. Imo, it would be my place - whether she has a past or not - to have a mom/son chat about how his girlfriend treats him during dating as well as again when they are nearing a wedding. That said, it is NOT the place of the church to decide that he needs to "know" about what the woman was known to do in the past prior to her proving her Christian faithfulness.

you just said the same thing I have been saying with different words and different people and try to pretend it is wise when you say it and unwise when I say it? Maybe your only problem is that I believe that the church does have a God given responsibility as per scripture, to encourage righteousness, where apparently you don't have such a belief.

 

[ValleyGal]

I'm curious... For the women who are taking the position of "the past is the past" - let's say you met a man who confessed that back in college he had performed [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] on a few dudes..."but it was only a few times long ago".

Would that impact on his dateability in your eyes? lol

There are a lot of "what if" scenarios you could run by all of us and we would all have a different answer for every situation because there are things we value more than others. Personally, I may or may not be affected by your above scenario as long as he was not gay or bi. But I am not going to judge another woman for choosing to marry someone with that in their past. That is between them....and no one else. In fact, I was good friends with a guy who had dated my cousin in a gay relationship. When he became a believer, he ended up marrying a friend from my church. Good people and I loved them both. She knew his past, and I was not about to "warn" her about his homosexuality. Likewise in the OP, the pastor's son knew about this woman's past, and the church should not feel like they have to "warn" him.

 

[DZoolander]

Well my discussion in this thread has been confined to the issue of individual willingness to deal with different issues, so to a degree I'm off topic...lol. That being said I don't think a congregation has any business getting involved.

 

[sdmsanjose]

By ValleyGal
A woman who was a prostitute does not need to earn trust because she did not cheat.

I do not know if I can 100% agree with this. She did cheat herself and her God, maybe even be a partner in harming the John’s wife and in that case the innocent wife is a victim. However, I do 100% agree with your statement below that ENOUGH TIME in earning trust makes a difference.

By ValleyGal
Of course it would be a concern....until enough time had passed that he had earned the trust of his church community.

By ValleyGal
It is not my place to tell my son who he can and can't marry, but I would support his decisions.

Your are right VG, I cannot tell my son or daughter who to marry but I will and did advice, encourage, and caution them. When my daughter was 15 years old and a man 21 kept coming around to see her I had a talk with him. He admitted that he was not a Christian and so I told him to not come to our house anymore and try a date my daughter. My daughter was real mad at me for a while but when she got older she came and thanked me. There was another time that a young man was seeing my daughter and I found out that he was just interested in using girls for his pleasure and I ran him out of our yard as he and I had strong words. When my son was an adult he did not listen to me and he had a child with a woman that I knew was damaged and did not come from a solid house hid. They had some very terrible years together and now he knows that I was correct. However, the child is a blessing and has lived with my son and me for years. My son is now married to a woman that had none of the background as his first girlfriend and the married is so much better and even very rich at times. My daughter married a man that is a Christian and not a woman user and they will celebrate their 25 the wedding anniversary in 2016. They now have 23 years of marriage.

My point is that I know that I cannot tell my son or daughter who they can marry but I am going to do everything that I can to guide them, even when they are adults, to who I think would be the best chance of them having a good life with. In my case I have more wisdom than a teenager or even my children that are in their 20s. I think that Christians should learn to be good gamblers. Life is a gamble and I evaluate life choices and take the one that I thing has the best possibility to benefit me and my family. In my evaluation it is a bettor gamble to get married to a person that has not been into drugs and prostitution or lies and abuses people.

By ValleyGal
My husband was an alcoholic. But since his conversion - that is, when he discovered what it means to be in relationship with God through Jesus - he has been fruitful and clean. I married him knowing that if he takes a drink, it could undo all that, but his 18 years or so of sobriety is enough that I trust him.

I have an unpleasant history with partying, drinking too much (binging), being a tease with the men I partied with, etc. But since my conversion, I have been faithful to Christ and the years of Christian fruitfulness have proven my faith. He married me knowing that I have been divorced multiple times and has a past.

Your life and your husband’s life and your marriage are what give people such encouragement and hope! Frankly, I think you two are the exception in a long term marriage but what joy and hope your story brings! Thank your for being so brave and for sharing such uplifting truths!


I realize that we as parents are limited in what we can do but I am convinced that I am to try and lead my children before and after adulthood in the ways that I think that are best for my children. I also realize that when God and the individual come together then the odds are in favor of a good life no matter what has taken place previously. However, I am to do what I can do as my part using God’s word and my abilities to lead and encourage my whole family.

 

[ValleyGal]

By ValleyGal
A woman who was a prostitute does not need to earn trust because she did not cheat.
​

I do not know if I can 100% agree with this. She did cheat herself and her God, maybe even be a partner in harming the John’s wife and in that case the innocent wife is a victim. However, I do 100% agree with your statement below that ENOUGH TIME in earning trust makes a difference.

The prostitute is normally not aware whether a john is married or not, so imo, she is not an intentional cheat or party to cheating a john's wife. I am thinking the typical street hooker here....she is normally one who is on drugs and is supporting her habit. She may have a pimp whose control she is under. Sure, she might have cheated herself and her God...but what kind of cheating on her went on to get her to the place she is now? No one grows up thinking "I want to be a hooker when I grow up." It is typically a response to a series of events imposed on her by others or by life circumstances. So her cheating seems more excusable and personally, I come from a place of compassion for such women, who very often will do almost anything to be rid of the pain that drew them to prostitution to start with. The john is far more culpable than the hooker in the "cheating" she does.

You are absolutely right in that it is a parental job to train a child in the way they should go...meaning, it is our job to steer our children in terms of chatting with them about who is a suitable match for them. Ultimately it is their choice, but as parents, we are to advise. But....that is not the place of the church to tell a PK who to marry based on the fiance's past. It's not up to them to advise...it is up to the pastor as a father and pastor to the young man.

The young lady in the OP was good enough to serve in ministry and teach Sunday School to the congregation's children, but not good enough to marry the pastor's son?