Questioning God being just due to Hell

[white gardenia]

Do you think the fallen angels will be tormented for all of eternity?
Why would it be so different for man?
Did you look at Isaiah 66:24?

How about the place of outer darkness, where it that?

2 Peter 2:17

“These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.”


Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

Matthew 8:12

“But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”


Matthew 22:13

“Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”


Matthew 25:30

“And cast ye the unprofitable servant into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.”

Yes...hell is all there in the Bible... I just look at it from a different perspective...as explained in this video

But you seem to view it in the traditional sense.. Just to revisit my original question...do you believe that all of the Jewish victims of the holocaust are now suffering in hell? And will they remain in hell (and/or the lake of fire) for all eternity?

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[nonaeroterraqueous]

I have no trouble believing in Hell. It's Heaven that strikes me as the most unlikely of expectations. If you plot the development of a man, from cradle to grave, what you get is essentially an inverse parabola. We improve a little at first, but then the improvement slows and pauses, before heading downward, ever faster, until we hit the X-axis at death, leaving this world with the same nothingness that we brought into it. Now, objectively speaking, if we wanted to look at the facts and determine what happens after death, then we would have to say that the most natural conclusion would be that our existence gets steadily worse, quite rapidly becoming exponentially worse than our worst day on Earth. That's the only rational conclusion about the afterlife that we can draw just based on open-eyed reality. If there is an afterlife, then we must assume that, barring a miracle, we are all naturally headed for Hell, and that "burning forever" is just an extreme understatement to help us wrap out heads around it.

Being punished forever for the sins of a lifetime seems unjust, it's true. A man takes just one step too far off a cliff, and he is sentenced to death. Attempt to commit any of a variety of such sins, incredibly minor in deed, but deadly in consequence, if you will, but the laws of God are clearly and consistently enforced. Before we go so far as to declare what God should do, we would do well to asses what God does do.

Discussing the nature of Christ and declaring that God is love only promotes a half-truth. You look at Christ and see our salvation. I look at Christ and see our punishment. Were it not for the significance of our sin, Christ would not have had to die. The image of the cross is a picture of wolves, such as ourselves, being permitted to survive at the brutal expense of a harmless and innocent lamb. Without that prey the wolves are the ones who die. That brings us to another picture that we, objectively, can take away from what we see, which is the food chain. It was in the nature of God to create a world where the lambs had to die so that the wolves could live, for example. Disregarding all assumptions about what God should be, this is what I see.

The reason I say that we ought to disregard any assumptions about what God should be is threefold. The first is that there is no use in debating the matter, for we cannot do anything about it but bring about our own ruin. The second is that God, as the creator of the world, has every right to do exactly as he pleases with it. We neither have greater wisdom, authority or power than God in such matters.
The third reason is in the definition of what is good. Who decides what is right? What is best? Without an absolute arbiter, a rule higher than God, there is no way to judge the rightness of God. If there is a higher rule, then the rule is God, and God is just something inferior. If we look at the arguments against Hell, we see people opining that God should not do such a thing. On what standard do we base such a position, and against what authority do we condemn God? We decide that we cannot accept it. Like Eve, we would become like God, or even greater than God. We condemn God for failing to live up to us. We have become our own God.

I see us as fish in the Lake of Fire. We make our leap into the gloriously cool air, and then we fall back into it. Our desperate attempt to escape it is futile, as we carve out that negative parabola from cradle, through our prime, through the grave, and then beyond it. Our only hope is to be snatched in a net by a fisher of men during our flight through the air, saved from the gravity of it all. If you say that you don't believe in the fire, then perhaps you don't believe in the fisherman.

 

[Russ Campbell]

Since the fall of man with Adam and Eve eating the forbidden fruit Mankind was given eternal death, its not a question of whether or not it is fair that you are going to Hell if you do not repent of your sins, you have already inherited Adam's sinful nature AND are going there UNLESS you accept Jesus Christ as your Savoir and repent of your sins (turn away from and actually hate them with the same measure that you Love Jesus). This answer has however one flaw, you do not have to Hate your sins, or Love Jesus, you have the free will. And I will tell you right now that Satan knows this and will just keep using it to his advantage by blinding a ot of people in two areas 1) That he (Satan) does not exist (a lie but a lot of people believe it), and 2) That Jesus' way is not the only way, he blinds a lot of people in this respect, it is a counterfit love that he spreads, its called lust, for money, power, sex, control, etc. But here is the Good News: God is constantly renewing life on this earth to replace those that have been murdered, lost hope, etc, God is and aways has been in control. To say that it is unfair, we deserve it and when you stand in front of the Judgement Throne remember what you have said today, and you know who I am talking about. Remember Jesus and ONLY Jesus is the way out.... Russ Campbell

PS: If you are of the Islam faith does your Koran not say KILL the Zionists, Kill the Infidals in over 500 references, I don't care who the Zionists and Infidels are , your Koran goes against the Bible, the ONLY ONE AND TRUE WORD OF GOD, especially in the statement Kill, Boy do you ever get what you deserve if you are Islamic, and believe the Koran. You who are Islamic have been warned !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! and that is in Love not Hate, I don't want to see even you go there.... and neither does God, He has given you the way out of it and if you do not accept that way out then you deserve what you get....
Russ Campbell

 

[Russ Campbell]

I have no trouble believing in Hell. It's Heaven that strikes me as the most unlikely of expectations. If you plot the development of a man, from cradle to grave, what you get is essentially an inverse parabola. We improve a little at first, but then the improvement slows and pauses, before heading downward, ever faster, until we hit the X-axis at death, leaving this world with the same nothingness that we brought into it. Now, objectively speaking, if we wanted to look at the facts and determine what happens after death, then we would have to say that the most natural conclusion would be that our existence gets steadily worse, quite rapidly becoming exponentially worse than our worst day on Earth. That's the only rational conclusion about the afterlife that we can draw just based on open-eyed reality. If there is an afterlife, then we must assume that, barring a miracle, we are all naturally headed for Hell, and that "burning forever" is just an extreme understatement to help us wrap out heads around it.

Being punished forever for the sins of a lifetime seems unjust, it's true. A man takes just one step too far off a cliff, and he is sentenced to death. Attempt to commit any of a variety of such sins, incredibly minor in deed, but deadly in consequence, if you will, but the laws of God are clearly and consistently enforced. Before we go so far as to declare what God should do, we would do well to asses what God does do.

Discussing the nature of Christ and declaring that God is love only promotes a half-truth. You look at Christ and see our salvation. I look at Christ and see our punishment. Were it not for the significance of our sin, Christ would not have had to die. The image of the cross is a picture of wolves, such as ourselves, being permitted to survive at the brutal expense of a harmless and innocent lamb. Without that prey the wolves are the ones who die. That brings us to another picture that we, objectively, can take away from what we see, which is the food chain. It was in the nature of God to create a world where the lambs had to die so that the wolves could live, for example. Disregarding all assumptions about what God should be, this is what I see.

The reason I say that we ought to disregard any assumptions about what God should be is threefold. The first is that there is no use in debating the matter, for we cannot do anything about it but bring about our own ruin. The second is that God, as the creator of the world, has every right to do exactly as he pleases with it. We neither have greater wisdom, authority or power than God in such matters.
The third reason is in the definition of what is good. Who decides what is right? What is best? Without an absolute arbiter, a rule higher than God, there is no way to judge the rightness of God. If there is a higher rule, then the rule is God, and God is just something inferior. If we look at the arguments against Hell, we see people opining that God should not do such a thing. On what standard do we base such a position, and against what authority do we condemn God? We decide that we cannot accept it. Like Eve, we would become like God, or even greater than God. We condemn God for failing to live up to us. We have become our own God.

I see us as fish in the Lake of Fire. We make our leap into the gloriously cool air, and then we fall back into it. Our desperate attempt to escape it is futile, as we carve out that negative parabola from cradle, through our prime, through the grave, and then beyond it. Our only hope is to be snatched in a net by a fisher of men during our flight through the air, saved from the gravity of it all. If you say that you don't believe in the fire, then perhaps you don't believe in the fisherman.

This is not for you but the billions of people that do not believe I misread your post. And i am sorry ... here is there post for their non believer......

Boy are you ever wrong !!!!! Jesus died on the cross for YOUR sins , if what you say is true , then his death means NOTHING, and I for one know why He died on the cross, He took on the whole world's sin's on His shoulders on the worse punishment ever devised by man , the cross, reserved only for the worse of criminals.... and He was totally and completely innocent, He had to be to satisfy God's Wrath on mankind. Who are you to question God's Wrath, that is the worse sin of them all because you are literally blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Again the Trinity explains why God's Wrath is just and the Sons mercy is just that He has earned that mercy from God on the cross, and has mercy towards Mankind but they are seperate entities in a way. Does it not say that Jesus sits on the right hand throne of God, is He not our legal lawyer and our representitive towards God, who sits on the Throne too, and has He not earned that position by His stripes and all of the suffering He took as both Man and God ??? God is our Judge, Jesus is the interceeeder for us all. And as ONLY Jesus is Rightous before God , we deserve what we would get UNLESS we follow Jesus and liste to what He says in the Bible , and that is to love God withe your whole heart , mind and soal and EQUALLY IMPORTANT to Love others as you want others to love you , if only the world could only do that, there would be no hatred, wars, even poverty as if you love your fellow man as much as you want to loved, you woud make sure that your fellow man would not be starving and wuld have good water and have good medicine. I say that what God gave Adam and Eve was not only just but they chose it freely and they passed it down to all of mankind, again Good News Jesus Christ is the one and only one answer. I rest my case ..... Russ Campbell

 

[Russ Campbell]

Boy are you ever wrong !!!!! Jesus died on the cross for YOUR sins , if what you say is true , then his death means NOTHING, and I for one know why He died on the cross, He took on the whole world's sin's on His shoulders on the worse punishment ever devised by man , the cross, reserved only for the worse of criminals.... and He was totally and completely innocent, He had to be to satisfy God's Wrath on mankind. Who are you to question God's Wrath, that is the worse sin of them all because you are literally blaspheming the Holy Spirit. Again the Trinity explains why God's Wrath is just and the Sons mercy is just that He has earned that mercy from God on the cross, and has mercy towards Mankind but they are seperate entities in a way. Does it not say that Jesus sits on the right hand throne of God, is He not our legal lawyer and our representitive towards God, who sits on the Throne too, and has He not earned that position by His stripes and all of the suffering He took as both Man and God ??? God is our Judge, Jesus is the interceeeder for us all. And as ONLY Jesus is Rightous before God , we deserve what we would get UNLESS we follow Jesus and liste to what He says in the Bible , and that is to love God withe your whole heart , mind and soal and EQUALLY IMPORTANT to Love others as you want others to love you , if only the world could only do that, there would be no hatred, wars, even poverty as if you love your fellow man as much as you want to loved, you woud make sure that your fellow man would not be starving and wuld have good water and have good medicine. I say that what God gave Adam and Eve was not only just but they chose it freely and they passed it down to all of mankind, again Good News Jesus Christ is the one and only one answer. I rest my case ..... Russ Campbell

I changed this post because I will never apologize for telling someone that their house is on fire and if they don't get out they will die, that in essence is what I am doing if you do not agree then remember your words when you stand in front of God on the judgement day enough said

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[section9+1]

I tend toward annihilation in the lake of fire. I don't think anyone spends eternity in torment. However if you look around, you must see that God is playing for keeps and our destiny is too important to be just left to chance and a few hopeful impulses. It's a deadly serious business.

 

[Russ Campbell]

I tend toward annihilation in the lake of fire. I don't think anyone spends eternity in torment. However if you look around, you must see that God is playing for keeps and our destiny is too important to be just left to chance and a few hopeful impulses. It's a deadly serious business.

I agree with you on that one Russ and I am not a prophet nor do I see myself as a messenger I am simply writing my thoughts down

 

[Russ Campbell]

For you who I posted to, that post is not for you I misread what you have said but I leave it in for the non Christian that might read it as a warning Russ

 

[Blade]

It was never made for man. Jesus looked at them and said.. if I had not come and spoken they would have no sin. Jesus... the only one that came from Heaven. This GOD became man. Think about that. He took ALL sin from the start to the finish on Him self. And dont think for one second it was just getting beat up to where not an inch of skin was left. It was far worse then that. He took it ALL. God even turned His back on Him. God can not look at sin. This GOD stood alone in all that darkness so YOU and ME and live forever. He said.. OT He would forgive there sins and remember them no more.

Its all how you look at it. Well OT.. God looked for just ONE to stand in the gab so that He would not have to judge a nation but found none. God came down to see if the crys were as bad as He had heard. And Abraham started with "if there are 50" and got to 10. Abraham stopped not God. And then we find there was only how many righteous? One.. and God said to Lot.. as long as you are here I can do NOTHING!

There are SO many more. God can not force will not in any way force anyone to go UP or down so to speak. The fallen angels have no choice. They seen heard felt everything GOD is. We never have HE KNOWS this. Man uses fear God does not. Jesus never once EVER said "turn or burn" (forgive me Father). No.. Jesus would CRY saying HE is the way the truth and life.. if your thirst come to me..your burden to heavy come to me I will give you rest... I come to give you LIFE and give it more abundantly.

So when we think about "hell" it was never Gods idea for man to EVER be there.. WE made that choice when WE fell. Anyone that follows evil..satan they get the same reward. Its a CHOICE not random. Hes out to SAVE the world.. made a simple way in. But...do WE tell the world the GOOD NEWS or stay quite

 

[Russ Campbell]

thanks for their good word my spirit accepts it gladly Russ

 

[disciple1]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

1 Peter chapter 4 verse 8
Love covers many sins.
And no one obeys the law, if you commit one sin your guilty of every sin.
Galatians chapter 5 verse 6
The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself in love.

 

[Only2memberFamily]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?[/QUOTE

God did not create Adam and Eve with immortal souls. God told them if they sinned they would die as in cease to exist but Satan told them no you won't die. You will live forever. After they sinned God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden and guarded it with angels so the sinners would not have access to the tree of life and live forever becoming immortal sinners. So since sinners never ate the tree of life no part of sinners is immortal and God does not have to create an eternal burning hell. But i will give you a guess who started the lie that God tortures sinners forever.

I can prove to you that an eternal burning hell is not a bible doctrine.
"...Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"Matthew 25:41 Jesus said that God will create hell for the devil and his angels so that proves that no human sinners are burning yet because why would God burn human sinners before the guest of honors the first intended beings. Demons know it is not their time yet. "... Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"Matthew 8:29

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.Jude 1:7

Jude said that Sodom and Gohmorah suffered eternal fire to set an example for sinners that will one day burn like they did. And they are not still burning they burnt up.

But the Heavens and The Earth which are now, by his word are stored up as for fire and are kept for the day of judgment and of the destruction of wicked people.2nd peter 3:7

Peter said that God is saving the world to be the judgement of sinners. That's right when hell or the lake of fire starts it will be on earth the whole earth and it will burn all the sinners who ever existed who never accepted Christ and then after they are burnt up he is going to recreate the earth and there will be nomore sinners in the universe. Therefore hell when it starts will be temperary and God is very loving and merciful to not force people to be Christians but provide for them a temperary hell to die because trust me if God forced evil people to go to heaven and live forever. That would be a torture hell for them.

 

[Only2memberFamily]

God did not create Adam and Eve with immortal souls. God told them if they sinned they would die as in cease to exist but Satan told them no you won't die. You will live forever. After they sinned God kicked Adam and Eve out of the garden and guarded it with angels so the sinners would not have access to the tree of life and live forever becoming immortal sinners. So since sinners never ate the tree of life no part of sinners is immortal and God does not have to create an eternal burning hell. But i will give you a guess who started the lie that God tortures sinners forever.

I can prove to you that an eternal burning hell is not a bible doctrine.
"...Go into the everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels"Matthew 25:41 Jesus said that God will create hell for the devil and his angels so that proves that no human sinners are burning yet because why would God burn human sinners before the guest of honors the first intended beings. Demons know it is not their time yet. "... Have you come here to torture us before the appointed time?"Matthew 8:29

Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire.Jude 1:7

Jude said that Sodom and Gohmorah suffered eternal fire to set an example for sinners that will one day burn like they did. And they are not still burning they burnt up.

But the Heavens and The Earth which are now, by his word are stored up as for fire and are kept for the day of judgment and of the destruction of wicked people.2nd peter 3:7

Peter said that God is saving the world to be the judgement of sinners. That's right when hell or the lake of fire starts it will be on earth the whole earth and it will burn all the sinners who ever existed who never accepted Christ and then after they are burnt up he is going to recreate the earth and there will be nomore sinners in the universe. Therefore hell when it starts will be temperary and God is very loving and merciful to not force people to be Christians but provide for them a temperary hell to die because trust me if God forced evil people to go to heaven and live forever. That would be a torture hell for them.

 

[Noah837]

The eternal torture hell is a pagan idea created by Catholic priests. Yahusha who is Jesus did not teach eternal hell in some fantastical afterworld of sorts. Sheol or the grave is where we go when we die and sleep until judgment. We either have pleasant dreams in Abraham's bosom which is Paradise which is a form of the kingdom to come or we go into torment which is not the same as being physically and literally tortured. It is more like a nightmare from being apart from Yahuah Elohim who is God and remaining dead in our sins and apart from his blessings and protection. The lake of fire is termination of the soul, it ceases to exist in the all consuming fire of Yahuah.

Edit: Eternal torture hell was also later inserted into the scripture by the Catholic church but the original Paleo Hebrew scripture says nothing about eternal hell.

 

[Bible2+]

FormerTweaker said in post #1:

I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this . . .

God doesn't love everyone; He hates the nonelect (Romans 9:11-22). During their lifetime, God hardens the nonelect in their sinfulness instead of showing them His mercy (Romans 9:18), because He created them to be vessels of His wrath (Romans 9:20-22, Proverbs 16:4). They were of old ordained to condemnation (Jude 1:4). They were appointed to disobedience (1 Peter 2:8, Acts 2:23). But God never forces them or anyone else to commit sin. He never even tempts anyone to commit sin (James 1:13-15). All people will justly be held accountable for their deeds (Romans 2:6-8), because neither election nor nonelection takes away the free will of people.

God created nonelect people to be vessels of His wrath instead of vessels of His mercy so He might eternally make known His wrath and power (Romans 9:21-22, Proverbs 16:4, Revelation 14:10-11). And God created elect people to be vessels of His mercy so He might eternally make known His mercy, glory, and wisdom (Romans 9:23, Ephesians 3:10, Ephesians 1:8,11).

God wants these aspects of His character to be made known both to humans and angels (Ephesians 3:10), neither of which group yet knows experientially the full extent of God's qualities and abilities (1 Corinthians 2:9; 1 Peter 1:12b). For example, the full extent of God's wrath won't be known to humans and angels until Satan and his fallen angels and all of unsaved humanity are cast into the eternal suffering of the lake of fire and brimstone (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11), and saved humans and holy angels go forth from the city of New Jerusalem on the new earth to witness the suffering of the unsaved in the lake of fire (Isaiah 66:24), the eternal hell (Mark 9:45-46), and realize by seeing it, not only the extent of God's wrath, but by it, by way of contrast, the extent of God's mercy toward them (Lamentations 3:22-23). Just as "up" can't be known eternally for what it is without the eternal coexistence of "down", so God's mercy can't be known eternally for what it is without the eternal coexistence of his wrath.

FormerTweaker said in post #1:

It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

As mere humans, we must be careful not to condemn the way that God himself has chosen to reveal all that he is (Romans 9:20-24): both a loving being (1 John 4:8, John 15:13, Matthew 26:28) and a vengeful being (Hebrews 12:29, Luke 12:49; 2 Thessalonians 1:8-9). We mustn't say that it's evil for God not to elect and save everyone, and to send the nonelect and unsaved into eternal suffering (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 14:10-11). For by saying this we would be making humans more important than God and his wishes. And this is something which Satan causes people to do, just as Jesus at one point "said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men" (Matthew 16:23).

No matter how it may irk the Satanic pride of us humans, wanting to be important like God (Isaiah 14:12-14), so important that God would never even think of not saving all of us, and casting some of us into hell forever (Isaiah 14:15, Revelation 20:10,15), we must always remember that it's God's right to do whatever he wants with his creatures (Romans 9:21-23), and that even all of humanity together is infinitesimal and worth less than nothing compared with God (Isaiah 40:17-18, Daniel 4:35). We must resist our Satanic, human pride (which we can unconsciously disguise with good-sounding words about God's love for us), and completely humble ourselves before God (James 4:7-10; 1 Peter 5:6-8), pleading that he might have mercy on us sinners (Luke 18:13-14).

Satan would love nothing more than to get us humans in our sinful pride to wrongly reject YHWH God of the Bible as evil, so that we will end up in the lake of fire forever with Satan and his fallen angels (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Mark 9:43-44). The future Antichrist, who will be empowered by Satan (2 Thessalonians 2:9, Revelation 13:4), will utterly revile YHWH (Revelation 13:6, Daniel 11:36). And no doubt one of his chief blasphemies against YHWH will be that YHWH is an evil god. (This is one of the ancient blasphemies of Gnosticism, another being the antichrist lie that Christ isn't in the flesh: 2 John 1:7.) During the Antichrist's future, literal 3.5-year worldwide reign, the world will be deceived into rejecting YHWH and worshipping Lucifer (Satan, the dragon) and the Antichrist (the individual-man aspect of Revelation's "beast") instead (Revelation 13:4-18, Revelation 12:9).

It's the ultimate proof of the humility of believers (James 4:10, Acts 20:19a, Matthew 23:12) for them to accept the facts of double predestination (Romans 9:11-24) and an eternal hell (Matthew 25:41,46) without rejecting YHWH as being evil for these things. For it means that believers have humbly accepted the fact that the wholly-good YHWH God (Deuteronomy 32:4; 1 John 1:5) is infinitely more important than even all of humanity together (Isaiah 40:17, Daniel 4:35).

FormerTweaker said in post #1:

Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

I went through it. I came out of it when God showed me I was making other humans more important than Him.

We have to be willing to love Him/Jesus more than anyone else. For:

Matthew 10:37 He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

 

[Bible2+]

JackRT said in post #9:

Hell would seem to be an entirely human invention based on a vindictive concept of retributory justice.

Note that the Bible shows there are two literal hells, one temporary and one eternal. The temporary hell, called Hades in Greek (Luke 16:23) and Sheol in Hebrew (Psalms 86:13), is where the souls of unsaved people go when they die, and where they are tormented by flame (Luke 16:23-24). Before Jesus' first coming, Hades was also where the souls of saved people went when they died, but the part of Hades for the saved was a place of comfort (Luke 16:25).

After Jesus fulfilled the gospel by suffering and dying for our sins on the Cross and rising physically from the dead on the third day (1 Corinthians 15:1-4), he went down into Hades and preached the fulfillment of the gospel to the souls there (1 Peter 3:19; 1 Peter 4:6), and then drew the souls of obedient believers there who had died in faith (Hebrews 11:13) up with him when he ascended into heaven (Ephesians 4:8-9, Hebrews 12:22-24). Since then, the souls of obedient believers go directly into heaven to be with Jesus when they die (Philippians 1:21,23; 2 Corinthians 5:8, Revelation 6:9-11).

At Jesus' second coming, he will bring with him from heaven the souls of all obedient believers who have ever died (1 Thessalonians 4:14), and their bodies will be physically resurrected into immortality at that time (1 Thessalonians 4:16; 1 Corinthians 15:21-23,52-53). They will then reign on the earth with Jesus for a thousand years (Revelation 20:4-6, Revelation 5:10, Revelation 2:26-29). After the thousand years and subsequent events (Revelation 20:7-10), all unsaved people of all times will be physically resurrected out of Hades and judged (Revelation 20:12-13), and then cast into the eternal hell, called the lake of fire (Revelation 20:15, Revelation 21:8), where they will be tormented along with Satan and his fallen angels in fire and brimstone forever (Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11). This eternal hell is also called Gehenna in Greek (Luke 12:5, Mark 9:45-46) and Tophet in Hebrew (Isaiah 30:33).

Tophet was also the name of a place in ancient times called the valley of Hinnom (2 Kings 23:10), just outside the southern wall of Jerusalem (Joshua 15:8). "Gehenna" literally means "the valley (ge) of Hinnom". Just as the ancient Tophet/Gehenna was outside the wall of ancient Jerusalem, so the eternal Gehenna, the lake of fire, will be just outside one wall of New Jerusalem (Revelation 22:15, Revelation 21:8) on the new earth (Revelation 21:1-8). Saved people will go forth from New Jerusalem to witness the eternal torment of the unsaved in the lake of fire (Isaiah 66:24, Mark 9:46, Matthew 25:41,46, Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11).

JackRT said in post #9:

Now imagine a condemned soul suffering the most agonizing possible pain continuously for all eternity.

To torture their fellow creatures is wrong for humans, because, as mere creatures, they have no right to do it. But it is not wrong for God, because, as the Creator, he has the right to do with his creatures whatever he wants (Romans 9:21-22). Also, the eternal suffering which he will mete out to the unsaved (Revelation 20:10,15, Revelation 14:10-11, Matthew 25:41,46) will not be some sick or capricious act of cruelty, but rather an expression of that aspect of his perfect holiness called his righteous judgment and wrath against evil (Romans 2:5, Hebrews 12:28b-29).

Also, the suffering in the lake of fire (the future, eternal hell) may not be torture in the sense of it being so bad that it causes uncontrollable screaming or the loss of one's mental faculties. For an unsaved person in Hades (the current, temporary hell) can still carry on a calm, rational conversation, even while he is being "tormented" by flame (Luke 16:23-31).

 

[Bible2+]

Shempster said in post #13:

I don't have all the answers but I do not see an unending place of torture being in line with the Character of Christ. Not at all.

Revelation 14:6 ¶And I saw another angel fly in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach unto them that dwell on the earth, and to every nation, and kindred, and tongue, and people,
7 Saying with a loud voice, Fear God, and give glory to him; for the hour of his judgment is come: and worship him that made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and the fountains of waters.
8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.
9 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,
10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:
11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
12 Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Jesus.