Questioning God being just due to Hell

[FormerTweaker]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

 

[Kenny'sID]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

I suppose it would have to be that "evidence" that we should discuss. To what are you referring as evidence? Or your main reasons for believing as you do about detailed punishment from God.

Also, I get where you are coming from, and would guess most of us have questioned this at one point or another.

 

[RC1970]

Most errors in thinking about God's goodness or fairness come from either an under estimation of the seriousness of sin or from an over estimation of human virtue.

Let me analyze your argument a little and see if you can find the problem.

You say:

But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me.

But have we only messed up once? Or, does not the Bible say that we are children of wrath? Don't we sin continuously. Don't we all truly deserve hell?

 

[zippy2006]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

Hell, as C. S. Lewis says, is a door locked from the inside. A person in Hell is someone who, during their life, has deformed themselves to such an extent that they are unable to love and to partake in goodness. They have so turned their back on God that they prefer darkness to light (John 3:19). Hell is what the damned have done to themselves, and God allows them the freedom to do such a thing.

 

[SkyWriting]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.
To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way. I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true.

Hell is simply where you choose to be if you choose to be without God.
By turning away from God, do you feel better? It doesn't seem so.
I sense you are creating your own version of Hell, just for you.

Perhaps now you can see that the "eternal torment" in scripture is
the Hell you are creating for yourself?

And lets just assume that hell is torture for a moment.
Isn't an internal one worse than an external one?

So there is your answer. God does not torture. You do.
God only allows those who reject Him to not be with Him forever.
That's more than fair.

 

[AvgJoe]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

Sin against an infinite God must be paid infinitely. That is why payment for our sin must be infinite. There are only two options for infinite payment. Either a finite creature (man) must pay for his sin for an infinite amount of time, or an infinite Being (Jesus) must pay for it once for all men for all time. There are no other options. A sin against an infinitely holy God requires an equally infinite satisfaction as payment, and even an eternity in hell will not dissipate God’s infinite, righteous wrath against sin. Only a divine Being could withstand the infinite wrath of a holy God against our sin. It requires an equally infinite Being as a substitute for mankind to satisfy God’s wrath. And that's why Jesus, as the God-man, is the only possible Savior.

 

[Winken]

Let's say you live in a complex neighborhood. Some folks are great, some mildly so, some are indifferent, some are bitter, some are hateful. The latter group walks over to your house, sets it on fire, runs off some distance, and busts out laughing. Your home, your car, everything you own, up in smoke.

What do you do?

1. Walk over, shake hands, grin.
2. Rant and rave but that's it.
3. Walk over, shoot them all.
4. Call 911.
a. identify them
b. testify against them
c. calmly accept their just but harsh sentences
d. buy a new home

 

[John Hyperspace]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

I believe it's not "God's justice" it's a lot of Christians horribly mistranslating and misunderstanding the bible, presenting God in a very warped and bad light to the nations, and calling it "God's justice" when it's actually "warped men's judgment"

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I'm not sure how anyone could love someone who tortured others forever. It would have to be a very cold, robotic love. The real problem is, how can you love your enemies, and love anyone, and not suffer with them when they are suffering? How can heaven not be hell, if hell is really what the "many" claim it to be? If hell is what the many claim it to be, then there is no heaven: all of creation is hell. A person who says they won't care that there are billions of people suffering forever is a person that never loved any of them to begin with. It's all just nonsense made up by men to cause fear and torment, and to cast doubt and despair on people.

 

[JackRT]

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

As human beings we are bounded in both time and place. That is to say, we are finite. On the other hand we think of God as completely unbounded. God exists outside of both time and space. God is present everywhere and at all times. That is to say, God is infinite. This is the orthodox theistic understanding of God. To compare the finite to the infinite is beyond our human comprehension. Even to compare a grain of sand to Mount Everest falls far, far, far short. All of this brings up a number of questions in my mind.

The first question being “How is it even possible for a finite creature to offend an infinite God?” Could a grain of sand offend Mount Everest?

The second question being “If it were possible for the finite to offend the infinite, would the infinite punishment of a finite creature be just?” I will attempt to craft an analogy. You are in a park enjoying a picnic lunch when you glance down and notice an ant crawling across your sandwich. You are offended. How do you react? You have a number of options. You could ignore the ant. You could brush the ant away. You could move to a different location. You could kill the ant. You could kill the entire ant colony. You could capture the ant and confine it and proceed to torture it for several weeks until it finally dies. That last option is quite inadequate as a comparison to hell because hell is infinite in duration whereas the ant can only be tortured for a finite length of time.

To me the concept of hell flies in the face of any concept of a just and compassionate God. Hell would seem to be an entirely human invention based on a vindictive concept of retributory justice. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of hell. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of justice. Perhaps we have the wrong idea of God. I completely reject the concept of hell as it is traditionally understood in most Christian churches.

Over 50 years ago during a spiritual retreat, the leader (a Jesuit priest) tried to envision eternity in this way: "Imagine the Himalayan mountain range, the most massive range in the world, standing in places almost six miles high. Once every 100 years a butterfly wafts over them and strikes a rock with its wing. When those butterflies have worn the Himalayas down till they are as flat as Saskatchewan, then the first fraction of a second of eternity will have passed." Eternity is totally beyond the capacity of the human mind to comprehend! Now imagine a condemned soul suffering the most agonizing possible pain continuously for all eternity. Got the image? I certainly have! And it is an image that I find totally incompatible with the notion of a loving and compassionate God. A God who could inflict such a punishment on even the most vile and evil human being would not really be worthy of our respect, our worship or our love. I do, however, believe very strongly in God's justice but even more strongly in God's love and compassion. I will leave it with confidence in God's care.

 

[visionary]

NASA calls this heaven's gate.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Hell, as C. S. Lewis says, is a door locked from the inside. A person in Hell is someone who, during their life, has deformed themselves to such an extent that they are unable to love and to partake in goodness. They have so turned their back on God that they prefer darkness to light (John 3:19). Hell is what the damned have done to themselves, and God allows them the freedom to do such a thing.

This.

Hell is not a fiery torment God created so that He could get satisfaction burning people alive forever there. I wouldn't want to believe in such a God either.

God LOVES the lost, and will continue to love them, even if they hate Him deeply. Imagine what the presence of a God (who is described as a "consuming fire" due to His holiness) will be like to someone who twists himself to evil and actively hates God. His will that person experience God?

Even Moses, who loved God and was described as his friend, couldn't even be allowed to see God directly, because it would have killed him. We will have bodies that won't die someday. But God will still be the same, so what will that be like for someone who hates Him?

Thats hell for you. Not a punishment God devised, but a thing man chooses to make out of himself.

 

[JackRT]

NASA calls this heaven's gate.

I think this has been photoshopped.

 

[Shempster]

Your question is really questioning the character of God. It's OK to do that. I don't have all the answers but I do not see an unending place of torture being in line with the Character of Christ. Not at all.

 

[JackRT]

Your question is really questioning the character of God. It's OK to do that. I don't have all the answers but I do not see an unending place of torture being in line with the Character of Christ. Not at all.

I do not see it so much as "questioning the character of God" as questioning some of our human perceptions of God.

 

[Big Drew]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

I don't believe hell is a literal lake of fire where folks are sent to burn for all eternity. I believe that we're guilty of adopting Dante's Inferno into modern Christianity.

The idea that God is some evil tyrant that is ruling over us with an iron fist saying, "Follow my rules or burn!!" is such a horrible contradiction to the Gospel.

And how even more horrible is it to say that a loving God created some just for the purpose of going to hell as the hyper-calvinists would say?

I see hell as separation from God...and that's why it's so important to understand the role we play...that our actions matter.

I'm reminded of when I was a teenager, I did some pretty horrible things...my parents had given me chance after chance, every time I said I'd do better, every time I failed...one night I walked in the house and saw a suitcase sitting in the entry way...My dad met me at the door and said, "You have 20 minutes to get as much packed into this as you can and get out of my house before I call the cops." So I did as he said, and left.

At the time I recall thinking how mean and unfair he was...what I realized later was that I had done this to myself...and what I found out even later (from my mother) was that night, after I left, my father collapsed in the living room floor crying like a baby, feeling he had failed me, and not understanding why I had done the things I had done.

Fortunately, shortly after this, I came to Christ and my relationship with my parents was restored...and my dad and I were the best of friends until he passed away...

I believe the Heavenly Father is like this as well...He's standing there with arms wide open, waiting for His children to come to Him...but so many go their own way, and in the end they only have themselves to blame for being eternally separated.

Now, our Catholic friends teach about purgatory, and this is perhaps a place where we go after we die so we still have an opportunity to reconcile with God. It's a nice thought...I don't know if it's true or not. I believe that's what our time here on earth is for.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Now, our Catholic friends teach about purgatory, and this is perhaps a place where we go after we die so we still have an opportunity to reconcile with God. It's a nice thought...I don't know if it's true or not. I believe that's what our time here on earth is for.

Just a little note ... and I'm not Catholic, and we don't believe in purgatory, but ... as I understand it, the Catholic doctrine of purgatory isn't for reconciling people to God. It is to complete the temporal punishment not atoned for during life, and only "saved" persons go to purgatory.

And I'm glad you restored your relationship with your father.

 

[Big Drew]

Just a little note ... and I'm not Catholic, and we don't believe in purgatory, but ... as I understand it, the Catholic doctrine of purgatory isn't for reconciling people to God. It is to complete the temporal punishment not atoned for during life, and only "saved" persons go to purgatory.

And I'm glad you restored your relationship with your father.

Thanks for the correction on that. In that case I have even more doubts about purgatory...

And, I'm so glad I was able to as well. It's interesting that even when I was doing the things I was doing we had a strained relationship, but he was still my dad, and we still laughed and joked with one another, but there was always, "What's waiting around the corner?" But I'm so thankful for the last few years I had with him, where there were no corners...just the joy of being around one another.

I kind of feel like that is how my relationship with God has been over the last few years...I loved Him, and I could commune with Him at times, but I was so self involved...I'm learning now how to walk in my faith more, and I can tell my relationship with Him is being restored. I hope and pray I can continue on this path.

FormerTweaker, sorry, I didn't mean to derail.

 

[1213]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God....

I have understood hell is a place where soul and body are destroyed, because Bible says:

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28-31

Obviously if one is destroyed, it is eternal solution, and there is no coming back, but I don’t believe anyone lives or feels eternally in hell, because according to the Bible, eternal life is for righteous:

These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.
Mat. 25:46

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
Romans 6:23

 

[vinsight4u]

/nvm

 

[QuikSand]

I have some problems. I've been questioning God's justice.

To me, an eternal punishment doesn't seem fair for offenses against God. I get God is eternal, and sinning against an eternal being is graver than sinning against a fellow man. And all sins are against God. But torturing us for trillions of years for messing up once as humans seems insanely harsh to me. I don't get why God even created us if he planned on doing this to the majority of his creations before the world even began, as it says the way to life is narrow and few find it in the Bible. It seems wrong to do this to living beings.

And I also question my salvation because it's hard to say I love God with my whole heart when I think of Him this way.

I don't want to think God treats his creations like this, but I believe in the Bible because most of the evidence I've seen points to it being true. Including talking to people who had demons cast out of them selves in Jesus name.

The doctrine of Hell is what causes me to see God in a bad light. Has anyone else went through this before and how did you come out of this?

Did your parents ever ask you
what was fair and what was not fair?
In fact how many times did your parents
every ask you for your opinion?