Question(s) about the Jews or Israelites as they were once known

[Godlovesmetwo]

At the risk of sounding highly ignorant, I'd like to know the following.
If Israel is known as the first born son of God, aren't they assured of eternal life?
Why do they reject the Messiah?
This must happen to a lot of people who start reading the Old Testament. We read about a Chosen People who ultimately reject the Saviour. It seems almost ironic to me. Covenant people who wont be making it to Heaven?
Jesus Christ was a Jew. What percentage of Jews became Christian?
So believing in the Torah wont get you into Heaven?

 

[NothingIsImpossible]

I've always found the subject a bit confusing and baffling. I also tend to get confused with all the terms. Jew, Israelite...etc. I mean I get if your from Israel then your Israeli (Israelite?) and it doesn't mean your Jewish per say. Just means your born there. But I alot of times keep thinking all people who are born in Israel are Jews for some reason. I also am nervous about saying anything bad about Jew or Israelis because we are always supposed to support them. But then its like "Oh wait, we support the jews right? Not Isralies right?".

 

[JackRT]

Why do they reject the Messiah?

Messiah means literally "anointed one" and was the common way in which the Jews referred to kings of the dynasty of David. "Anointed" refers of course to the method of investiture of the Jewish kings. It translated into the Greek as "Christ". The Jews regarded themselves as a "theocracy"... a kingdom ruled by God, or in a literal sense "the kingdom of God". Recall that Jesus frequently reminded his followers that "the kingdom of God is at hand". They also envisaged a (metaphorical) throne room in which there were three thrones. God occupied the central throne. At "the right hand of God" was the throne of the "king messiah" who was the reigning king of the house and family of David. At "the left hand of God" was the throne of the "priest messiah" who was the high priest of the house and family of Zadok. Ideally there were always two messiahs who were known collectively as the "sons of God". All these terms, "messiah", "kingdom of God", "at the right hand of God" and "son of God" were political rather than religious statements. It was a later generation of Christians who re-interpreted these phrases in a very different religious sense. Both before and after the death of Jesus the early Christians, who were, after all, practising Jews, understood these terms in their traditional sense.

*****

The Jews simply did not reject the "messiah" as Christians understand the term.

*****

Quote: JESUS of NAZARETH: HIS LIFE, TIMES AND TEACHING ( 1925 ) by Joseph Klausner: "In his ethical code there is a sublimity, distinctiveness and originality in form unparalleled in any other Hebrew ethical code; neither is there any parallel to the remarkable art of his parables. The shrewdness and sharpness of his proverbs and his forcible epigrams serve, in an exceptional degree, to make ethical ideas a popular possession. If ever the day should come and this ethical code be stripped of it's wrappings of miracle and mysticism, the Book of the Ethics of Jesus will be one of the choicest treasures in the literature of Israel for all time."

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

If Israel is known as the first born son of God, aren't they assured of eternal life?

No.

Why do they reject the Messiah?

So the heathen gentiles could receive salvation. That's part of it anyway. The rejection by the Jews opened the door of the Gospel to the gentiles in the Perfect Plan of YHWH. Before that the gentiles (pagans/ heathens/ other peoples besides Jews) were without YHWH, without Christ Jesus, and without hope in the world as peoples ..
(a few individuals sought YHWH through the Jews, and in the way instructed by YHWH)

What percentage of Jews became Christian?

None to some.

So believing in the Torah wont get you into Heaven?

No.
Believing in Jesus won't get you into Heaven either.

YHWH'S WAY requires trusting faith, relying on YHWH through Jesus, repenting and living a life He directs. i.e. in His Kingdom, now on earth, instead of being directed by the prince of the power of the air (the devil).

 

[Serving Zion]

At the risk of sounding highly ignorant, I'd like to know the following.
If Israel is known as the first born son of God, aren't they assured of eternal life?
Why do they reject the Messiah?
This must happen to a lot of people who start reading the Old Testament. We read about a Chosen People who ultimately reject the Saviour. It seems almost ironic to me. Covenant people who wont be making it to Heaven?
Jesus Christ was a Jew. What percentage of Jews became Christian?
So believing in the Torah wont get you into Heaven?

After the Babylonian Exile, the Jews regathered and tried to fortify their religion to make sure that they could not possibly break Torah. This has culminated even in the present day, very technical interpretations of law, for instance cheese and beef must not be consumed in proximity because it removes all potential for transgressing Exodus 23:19.

The institution of religion had become a very serious matter of how to operate a godly society, and those who had achieved status were highly honoured. For a lay-person carpenter to oppose them with very basic truths (Mark 7:8) and to be unstoppable (Mark 12:34, Matthew 22:15), they were provoked by jealousy (Mark 15:10). In their pride (Matthew 26:63-68), they chose to reject a very precious stone that God Himself had appointed (Matthew 21:42).

As for whether these ones will enter heaven, that is not our judgement to make (Jeremiah 17:10), while the reign of heavenly power cannot belong to them as long as they insist that it was right to spill His innocent and righteous blood in the name of God (Matthew 5:20, Matthew 27:25, Lamentations 4:12-13, Matthew 23) - same goes for any Christian who preaches that gospel.

Now our challenge is, how can we show modern Jews (who are ready to receive Jesus) that He is holy, when the nature of His followers is as Oholibah (Ezekiel 23) - and where does that leave us?

 

[Sketcher]

At the risk of sounding highly ignorant, I'd like to know the following.
If Israel is known as the first born son of God, aren't they assured of eternal life?

No, Jesus himself taught against that many times. Paul also did in Romans 9.

Why do they reject the Messiah?

They have many hundreds of years of tradition since the diaspora which further developed their beliefs on what the Messiah can and will be. Many also stick to tradition and believe that they would have to give up their Jewish identity if they were to follow Jesus, because they have a tradition-heavy understanding of their religion (for those of them that are religious at all - many are not and just keep various customs). And quite frankly, persecution by people who claimed Christ for over a thousand years spoils the very concept for many of them.

Dr. Michael L. Brown, a Jewish-born believer in Jesus, has written extensively on the subject. A primer for Christians is "60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices." He wrote five volumes of "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" which is written to a Jewish audience, but Christians can of course profit from them as well. This man has also publicly debated many rabbis on the matter.

This must happen to a lot of people who start reading the Old Testament. We read about a Chosen People who ultimately reject the Saviour. It seems almost ironic to me. Covenant people who wont be making it to Heaven? Jesus Christ was a Jew. What percentage of Jews became Christian?

We don't know the percentage who accepted him. But it was prophesied that he would be rejected to begin with.

So believing in the Torah wont get you into Heaven?

The Torah points to God's redemptive plan through Jesus the Messiah. But again, there are traditions that guide people away from that interpretation of the Torah, and those are the popular stances for traditional reasons.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

Dr. Michael L. Brown, a Jewish-born believer in Jesus, has written extensively on the subject. A primer for Christians is "60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices." He wrote five volumes of "Answering Jewish Objections to Jesus" which is written to a Jewish audience, but Christians can of course profit from them as well. This man has also publicly debated many rabbis on the matter.

thanks. I'll look it up.

 

[Winken]

At the risk of sounding highly ignorant, I'd like to know the following.
If Israel is known as the first born son of God, aren't they assured of eternal life?
Why do they reject the Messiah?
This must happen to a lot of people who start reading the Old Testament. We read about a Chosen People who ultimately reject the Saviour. It seems almost ironic to me. Covenant people who wont be making it to Heaven?
Jesus Christ was a Jew. What percentage of Jews became Christian?
So believing in the Torah wont get you into Heaven?

I've written a ton on this, Paul. I'll not provide it here. There isn't enough room at CF.

Suffice it to say that God's Chosen drifted away from God, then from the Abrahamic Covenant of Grace as He sought to restore them. God responded with the harder-than-nails Mosaic Law. No one could comply with that. It was an attempt to teach the Jews a lesson. The massive amount of rules and procedures, complicated by the Pharisees, were grievous. THEN God sent Jesus, THE provision of Grace for Jew and Gentile. The Apostle Paul sets out the parameters in his 13 letters, plus the Book of Hebrews. From the Grace that was there in the Garden, to the Grace that is there for us today. Those Jews who rejected Jesus, who denied that He was the Messiah, are eternally lost. Those who confessed Him as Savior by Grace through Faith will meet us in Heaven.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

Why do they reject the Messiah?

oh, also,

remember all the Apostles and disciples were Jewish, at first.

Many (though few in comparison) Jews accepted and followed Y'SHUA HAMASHIACH,
as many as loved HIM and were appointed according to YHWH'S PURPOSE.

And also , pertinent question: Why do they reject the Messiah?

Only this time, not Jews, but pagan, heathen gentile nations/ most people on earth ?

(This is answered in Scripture, by YHWH; including why so many are deceived by religion that has form but no power)

 

[Winken]

Believing in Jesus won't get you into Heaven either.

Run that by me again????

 

[2PhiloVoid]

At the risk of sounding highly ignorant, I'd like to know the following.
If Israel is known as the first born son of God, aren't they assured of eternal life?
Why do they reject the Messiah?
This must happen to a lot of people who start reading the Old Testament. We read about a Chosen People who ultimately reject the Saviour. It seems almost ironic to me. Covenant people who wont be making it to Heaven?
Jesus Christ was a Jew. What percentage of Jews became Christian?
So believing in the Torah wont get you into Heaven?

Well, Paul, if we read the Old Testament really closely, it indicates that God thought many of the people of Israel would reject much of what He commanded them in the Law and the Prophets. God knew many of them would turn their backs on Him; and they did. The rejection of Jesus by many in Israel can be seen as just another chapter of the same ol' song and dance they were doing before Jesus came along.

Sad but true.

 

[Godlovesmetwo]

 

[Steve Petersen]

Here we have a bunch of non-Jews telling us all what Jews believe and why. Why not go to Jewish sources for that information instead of relying on stereotypes from the New Testament? The Jewish Encyclopedia is free online. There are also numerous other sites that can explain these things as well, such as Jews for Judaism.