Question regarding 2 tim 1:16-18

[cheezit]

These verses, 2 Tim 1:16-18, are often used as one of many to substantiate the idea of purgatory. IE, they prayed to him after he was dead.

"2 Timothy 1

16 The Lord give mercy unto the house of Onesiphorus; for he oft refreshed me, and was not ashamed of my chain:
17 But, when he was in Rome, he sought me out very diligently, and found me.
18 The Lord grant unto him that he may find mercy of the Lord in that day: and in how many things he ministered unto me at Ephesus, thou knowest very well."

My question is very simple. Where in these verses does it say that Onesiphorus is dead? It seems more likely to me that Paul is talking about the fact that when he was in prison, Onesiphorus was the only one that actually sought Paul out and comforted him and was not ashamed of the chains that Paul was in. And Paul is just asking that Onesiphorus' family be blessed because of the love that he showed to Paul.

To be fair, I looked at various translations and none that I looked at said anything about him being dead. In fact, he in only mentioned 2 times in the entire Bible. These verses and in 2 Tim 4:19, where Paul is talking about greeting people of the church and he says Onesiphorus' household, which would, to me, also include Onesiphorus. It doesn't necessarily mean that he was dead.

Or did I miss something somewhere along the line?

 

[MissytheButterfly]

That's interesting Cheezit..but how do you know they use that particular passage to prove it ?

 

[Wolseley]

I think it's probably due to the fact that Paul is referring to Onesiphorus in the past tense, and he does not address Onesiphorus directly, but rather his household.

In 2 Tim 1:16, for example, if Onesiphorus were alive, Paul would be expected to say, "May the Lord grant mercy to Onesiphorus and his family", rather than what he does say: "to the family of Onesiphorus". Onesiphorus is excluded from Paul's benediction, as if he were not there; probably because Onesiphorus was deceased at the time. The whole passage from v.16 to v.18 speaks of Onesiphorus in the past tense.

In 2 Tim 1:18, Paul says "May the Lord grant him [Onesiphorus] to find mercy from the Lord on that day." Again, if Onesiphorus were alive, it seems more likely that Paul would address him directly: "May the Lord grant that you find mercy from the Lord on that day." Paul addresses boatloads of people in his epistles first-hand, but Onesiphorus he does not; again, another indication that Onesiphorus has died.

2 Tim 4:19 is much the same as 1:16; Paul greets Onesiphorus' family, but does not greet Onesiphorus. Apparently Onesiphorus is no longer there to greet.

2 Tim 1:18 is used as a defense of Purgatory because Paul is praying that God will show mercy to a man who is no longer on earth; perhaps that God will shorten Onesiphorus' stay in Purgatory. This interpretation makes sense if it is incorporated into everything else the Church teaches about Purgatory, in both Scripture and Tradition. Taken entirely on their own, however, various interpretations can be placed on these passages; that they refer to Onesiphorus' personal judgement, that they refer to the Last Judgement, that Onesiphorus isn't even dead.

In a way, the passages about Onesiphorus are a microcosm of the Sola scriptura vs. Scripture plus Tradition debate; the first will give you numerous interpretations, while the second gives you one.

 

[cheezit]

Originally posted by MissytheButterfly
That's interesting Cheezit..but how do you know they use that particular passage to prove it ?

Along with other verses, here:

http://www.christianforums.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=150692#post150692