Question re: Democratic Perspective - Trump free thread

[grasping the after wind]

The two groups are more or less the same.

Why do you think that? I am seriously curious to know why you believe what you believe about Trump supporters so if you could explain I would have a better understanding of your position. Could you explain why you think they are crypto-religious isolationists that want to turn America into a backwater? Also perhaps you have some idea of why they would want to make the country a backwater? Do they see themselves as crypto-religious isolationists that want to turn America into a backwater? If they don't , why do you think they don't see themselves that way and how do they see themselves?

 

[Speedwell]

Why do you think that? I am seriously curious to know why you believe what you believe about Trump supporters so if you could explain I would have a better understanding of your position. Could you explain why you think they are crypto-religious isolationists that want to turn America into a backwater?

Take a look at the "hot button" issues for Trump supporters:

No legal abortion
No "out" LGBTs
No gun control
No amnesty for Central American refugees
No action on global warming
No single-payer health care.
A misguided trade policy which will harm our economy in the long run
An isolationist foreign policy hostile to our traditional allies.

While we preoccupy ourselves with an internal "culture war" fostered by religious conservatives, the rest of the world is going on without us.

Also perhaps you have some idea of why they would want to make the country a backwater? Do they see themselves as crypto-religious isolationists that want to turn America into a backwater? If they don't , why do you think they don't see themselves that way and how do they see themselves?

I'm sure that they have convinced themselves that they are Making America Great Again.

 

[grasping the after wind]

Take a look at the "hot button" issues for Trump supporters:

No legal abortion
No "out" LGBTs
No gun control
No amnesty for Central American refugees
No action on global warming
No single-payer health care.
A misguided trade policy which will harm our economy in the long run
An isolationist foreign policy hostile to our traditional allies.

While we preoccupy ourselves with an internal "culture war" fostered by religious conservatives, the rest of the world is going on without us.

I'm sure that they have convinced themselves that they are Making America Great Again.

My problem might be that I am not understanding what you mean by crypto -religious and we don't seem to be on the same page when it comes to what constitutes isolationist. To be honest I can't see that those things you mention, even those things where I agree Trump supporters do advocate for ( there are some I think you are a bit mistaken about in that regard) , would lead me to the conclusion that Trump supporters are typically crypto- religious isolationists.

I guess you are saying that those Trump supporters don't actually want to turn America into a backwater though you believe that what they do want to do would make that happen. I suspect they have the same opinion about those that hold the beliefs about public policy that you hold.

 

[Speedwell]

My problem might be that I am not understanding what you mean by crypto -religious and we don't seem to be on the same page when it comes to what constitutes isolationist. To be honest I can't see that those things you mention, even those things where I agree Trump supporters do advocate for ( there are some I think you are a bit mistaken about in that regard) , would lead me to the conclusion that Trump supporters are typically crypto- religious isolationists.

Those are all apparently Christian issues, argued for on the basis of the Bible, including frequently in this very forum. There is a thread active right now in which single-payer health care is being argued against from a biblical basis. But it's not quite Christians v. everybody else, since there are Christians on both sides of the issues. It's more an ethno-Protestant cultural thing, wrapped up in Lost Cause mythology, which is why I call it "crypto religious."

I guess you are saying that those Trump supporters don't actually want to turn America into a backwater though you believe that what they do want to do would make that happen. I suspect they have the same opinion about those that hold the beliefs about public policy that you hold.

What do they expect to happen after erecting tariff barriers, a wall, and withdrawing from a position of world leadership?

 

[grasping the after wind]

Those are all apparently Christian issues, argued for on the basis of the Bible, including frequently in this very forum. There is a thread active right now in which single-payer health care is being argued against from a biblical basis. But it's not quite Christians v. everybody else, since there are Christians on both sides of the issues. It's more an ethno-Protestant cultural thing, wrapped up in Lost Cause mythology, which is why I call it "crypto religious."

Those are all secular issues as far as I can tell. Some may have overlapping religious implications but none of them are actually religious issues. I expect that those that have a contrary position to you on those issues probably do so out of a secular mind set rather than a religious one. I know people on both sides of those issues that are religious and it seems to me that they mostly come to their conclusions based upon their political POV and then try to find ways to fit that into their religious belief system. There are always a few that want to do the "God is on our side" thing but, when one looks at what really motivates people , their position comes from political ideology even if a few want to try to guilt people into compliance with their POV by referencing a religious belief. I have seen that tactic used on both sides of the issues you mentioned.

Additionally, when one looks at what motivates political ideology, it is often how a person individually looks at their own situation in the world and not how they are attempting to follow their religion. The Christian religion, which is the one you seem to be ascribing the crypto to, is mostly about how individuals treat each other and how they relate to God. One of two of the secular issues you brought up may elicit a visceral reaction based upon a religious belief but mostly people approach the issues you referred to through a political lens and not a religious one.

What do they expect to happen after erecting tariff barriers, a wall, and withdrawing from a position of world leadership?

I seriously doubt that the people that you are asking about think they advocate withdrawal from a position of world leadership. If you want to know what they expect ask one of them and listen carefully to the answer they give you. If you are a good listener you will be able to point out any reasoning you find faulty and any assumption they make that you find unwarranted. You also will gain an understanding of the way another human being thinks and processes information.

 

[SarahsKnight]

Hillary was probably the only serious candidate who could have lost to Trump the first time. Now his behaviour has been normalized to a degree it’s less clear this time around. Biden is a horrible pick and his gaffes could torpedo him before November, but he’s also so well know for saying stupid things and Trump has set the bar so low anyway, that I think Biden will win it.

Isn't that sad? That this is the best America is choosing to put forth for 2020?

 

[KCfromNC]

IF, please note 'if' - the election results were influenced by a large number of voters who were voting against the candidate and the administration policies, what do they think will happen when they run the former vice president, who was an architect to some of those very same policies?

From the polling numbers, it looks like he will do better than Clinton in several battleground states. I wonder why.

 

[hislegacy]

From the polling numbers, it looks like he will do better than Clinton in several battleground states. I wonder why.

How did those polls work for Clinton? What has changed that makes you believe they are any more accurate now, after they failed you last time?

 

[KCfromNC]

...didn't Clinton get many millions more votes then the other candidate? Because the OP seems to be saying she was less popular then the other candidate and that's why she lost, which isn't the reality. She lost because some States votes count more then other states.
tulc(just in case people have forgotten)

The whole point of the OP is to try and work against the polling showing that a large majority of voters are motivated by "he's not Donald" as the highest ranked consideration in who to vote for. So it shouldn't be a surprise that an OP premised in ignoring the facts ignores the facts.

 

[KCfromNC]

How did those polls work for Clinton?

Sorry, the OP asked not to compare candidates against Donald in this thread.

 

[hislegacy]

How did those polls work for Clinton? What has changed that makes you believe they are any more accurate now, after they failed you last time?

The whole point of the OP is to try and work against the polling showing that a large majority of voters are motivated by "he's not Donald" as the highest ranked consideration in who to vote for. So it shouldn't be a surprise that an OP premised in ignoring the facts ignores the facts.

 

[hislegacy]

Sorry, the OP asked not to compare candidates against Donald in this thread.

That is why I did not ask about him.

 

[KCfromNC]

Biden has to find a position that will keep the far left happy and at the same time appeal to independent voters. Joe Biden’s Hard-Left Turn: Will Americans Sign Up for Fundamental Transformation? | National Review

The polling data shows his appeal is strongly based on a factor which the OP declared off-topic in his first sentence.

 

[KCfromNC]

Are we aware that this is Mr. Biden's third attempt to become President?

Same with the incumbent. So?

 

[hislegacy]

M

 

[KCfromNC]

That is why I did not ask about him.

OK, fair enough. The polling accurately showed that she would get the largest number of votes and she did.

 

[KCfromNC]

Your point? I was discussing polling numbers from the guy you asked about.

 

[KCfromNC]

Here, I will simplify it:

What has changed that makes you believe they are any more accurate now, after they failed you last time?

You'll have to explain why you falsely believe that polls failed me for me to make any headway here. I'll try to help, but until we can identify the source of your misunderstanding I'm not sure how to move forward.

 

[hislegacy]

O

 

[hislegacy]

You'll have to explain why you falsely believe that polls failed me for me to make any headway here. I'll try to help, but until we can identify the source of your misunderstanding I'm not sure how to move forward.

LOL - That's Just too easy.

2016 General Election: Trump vs. Clinton - Polls - HuffPost Pollster

Notice nationally the polls have one person as a winner Use your mouse and see May 27th 2016 Clinton at a 4.5% advantage nationally.

Now compare the states won - Swing states especially -

Tell me what swing states followed the national polls?

Stay focused - don't change the narrative.