Question from a former Catholic

[UnmaskedHearts]

First of all, if this thread is in the wrong section, I'm sorry. I'm still trying to figure my way around this site. If it is the wrong forum, hopefully it'll be reported and placed in the correct one

Now, I have never gotten an answer from any priests or people who deal with apologetics, so I'm not sure if I'll get an answer here either, but here goes nothing.

If someone were to leave the Catholic Church and convert to another religion (in my case, Orthodox Judaism) according to the Church, do they go to hell? G-d bless y'all!

FYI Judaism doesn't believe in hell but I just want the Catholic perspective

 

[pdudgeon]

no one goes to hell on a permanent basis until they die.

The whole point here (briefly) is that God who loves us sees our heart and speaks to us every new day. He never gives up on us, and He never gives in.
Because He loves us without measure He gave without measure, that we might be resurrected from death and rescued from the penalty of our sins, and have an eternity with Him.

 

[UnmaskedHearts]

Thank you for responding But my question still isn't answered

 

[AvilaSurfer]

This won't help one bit, but - anyone who tells you that they know for sure who goes to Hell and who does not, is full of crap.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

First of all, if this thread is in the wrong section, I'm sorry. I'm still trying to figure my way around this site. If it is the wrong forum, hopefully it'll be reported and placed in the correct one

Now, I have never gotten an answer from any priests or people who deal with apologetics, so I'm not sure if I'll get an answer here either, but here goes nothing.

If someone were to leave the Catholic Church and convert to another religion (in my case, Orthodox Judaism) according to the Church, do they go to hell? G-d bless y'all!

FYI Judaism doesn't believe in hell but I just want the Catholic perspective

If you leave the Church with the full knowledge of Catholic teaching and reject Jesus, then your soul is in jeopardy. That being said, the Church leaves judgment to God.


From the Catechism:

1036 The affirmations of Sacred Scripture and the teachings of the Church on the subject of hell are a call to the responsibility incumbent upon man to make use of his freedom in view of his eternal destiny. They are at the same time an urgent call to conversion: "Enter by the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is easy, that leads to destruction, and those who enter by it are many. For the gate is narrow and the way is hard, that leads to life, and those who find it are few."618

Since we know neither the day nor the hour, we should follow the advice of the Lord and watch constantly so that, when the single course of our earthly life is completed, we may merit to enter with him into the marriage feast and be numbered among the blessed, and not, like the wicked and slothful servants, be ordered to depart into the eternal fire, into the outer darkness where "men will weep and gnash their teeth."619
1037 God predestines no one to go to hell;620 for this, a willful turning away from God (a mortal sin) is necessary, and persistence in it until the end. In the Eucharistic liturgy and in the daily prayers of her faithful, the Church implores the mercy of God, who does not want "any to perish, but all to come to repentance":621

Father, accept this offering
from your whole family.
Grant us your peace in this life,
save us from final damnation,
and count us among those you have chosen.622

 

[LivingWordUnity]

It depends on how much you knew about the faith when you left the Catholic Church and whether all of the conditions for mortal sin were met. If all of the conditions for mortal sin were met in you leaving, and if you die without repenting then your soul would end up in Hell. Did you make a diligent attempt to learn and understand all that you can about the Catholic faith before coming to the decision you made? Did you leave the Church because of pressure from someone else? Was your conscience bothering you but you left anyway? Since the time that you left do you miss being able to receive the Eucharist in Holy Communion? If you regret leaving, you can return by making an appointment with your local parish priest. And information and assistance is available at a website called Catholics Come Home. Was your reason for leaving that you are of Jewish ancestry? If so, I recommend a website called Association of Hebrew Catholics.

"Mortal sin requires full knowledge and complete consent. It presupposes knowledge of the sinful character of the act, of its opposition to God's law. It also implies a consent sufficiently deliberate to be a personal choice. Feigned ignorance and hardness of heart do not diminish, but rather increase, the voluntary character of a sin." - Catechism of the Catholic Church, 1859

The 4 Last Things: Hell - by Fr. Wade Menezes, CPM - YouTube


References:
Catholics Come Home
Association of Hebrew Catholics
Mortal Sin and Venial Sin
Pope St. John Paul II teaches about Hell

 

[Rhamiel]

Lets listen to the words of our Lord Jesus Christ

Luke 10:16
"Whoever listens to you listens to me; whoever rejects you rejects me; but whoever rejects me rejects him who sent me."


Jesus is the only one who can judge us, He knows the hearts of a person
if you are suffering from ignorance of true doctrine, Jesus will take that into account when you are judged
but if you reject His Church and Him that is very serious

your soul is at risk right now

I do understand that Orthodox Judaism is an attractive religion, but I would recommend learning more about the Church

 

[GoingByzantine]

UnmaskedHearts, may I ask why you left the Church?

 

[football5680]

If you converted from Catholicism to any other religion then you will go to hell if you do not change before you die.

but whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 10:33)

Orthodox Judaism denies Jesus so if you affirm this belief then you have accepted your fate.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

sorry to be a little unpolite but Yes, you may go to hell, for two reasons, first, You left the Church, and second and most important. because far from perhaps going to another christian denomination you have moved away from the Lord Himself, and you have killed the spirit in you:

Matthew 10, 28 - 33

28 'Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul; fear him rather who can destroy both body and soul in hell.

29 Can you not buy two sparrows for a penny? And yet not one falls to the ground without your Father knowing.

30 Why, every hair on your head has been counted.

31 So there is no need to be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

32 'So if anyone declares himself for me in the presence of human beings, I will declare myself for him in the presence of my Father in heaven.

33 But the one who disowns me in the presence of human beings, I will disown in the presence of my Father in heaven.

You have denied The Lord, and you have killed your soul to damnation.

About hell, It does exists, even in judaism,

Isaiah 66, 24

24 And on their way out they will see the corpses of those who rebelled against me; for their worm will never die nor their fire be put out, and they will be held in horror by all humanity.


Mark 9, 43 - 48

43 And if your hand should be your downfall, cut it off; it is better for you to enter into life crippled, than to have two hands and go to hell, into the fire that can never be put out.

45 And if your foot should be your downfall, cut it off; it is better for you enter into life lame, than to have two feet and be thrown into hell.

47 And if your eye should be your downfall, tear it out; it is better for you to enter into the kingdom of God with one eye, than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell

48 where their worm will never die nor their fire be put out.

 

[Basil the Great]

Conversion to another faith = automatic excommunication. However, it is still up to God to judge our immortal souls.

 

[UnmaskedHearts]

Alonso there is no concept of hell in Judaism. And please explain how you take that verse (Isaiah 66:24) as referring to a hell. If you say hell in the sense of the grave you would be correct. But Judaism does not teach hell.

Have you talked to a rabbi about

 

[StevenMerten]

Hello Unmasked,

You are correct in that Judaism does not believe in hell. As hard as it is for many Christians to believe, hell is introduced by Jesus and John the Baptist. I had a priest give a homily about how Moses was all hell, fire and brimstone and now Jesus countered that with 'love'. Well Moses taught love and Jesus quoted Moses on Love. Moses or any of Old Testament prophets never taught of the torment of burning in hell, hell is a new teaching of Jesus. Old Testament prophets taught of spiritual life and spiritual death after physical life, but there is no mention of the torment of burning in hell for all eternity. So you are right in that there is no hell in Jewish teachings.

As far as knowing Jesus and then rejecting Jesus, this did not go over well for the Jewish people of Jesus' day or in our day. Many of the Jewish Pharisees were baptized by John and followed Jesus. Jesus did not exalt the Jewish leaders as God's chosen few to inherit the 'Kingdom of God' above the repentant tax collectors and prostitutes. For this reason the Jewish leaders murdered and rejected Jesus. Thus we have the Catholic Church who did accept Jesus. Rejecting Jesus for any reason, whether it be the evil in the Jewish leaders hearts, or any other reason, is not the path to eternal life. To believe in Jesus Christ, the Messiah of the Jews, is the path to eternal life. Whether you believe that you will burn in hell for all eternity or not, you will not go to heaven outside of doing so through the blood of Jesus. You have rejected Jesus therefore, like the Jews of Jesus day, this puts you in a tough spot as far as going to heaven. And, yes, Jesus taught that if you reject Him and His teaching, you go to hell.

NAB2 MAR 8:38

Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this faithless and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

NAB2 LUK 10:8

Whatever town you enter and they welcome you, eat what is set before you, cure the sick in it and say to them, 'The kingdom of God is at hand for you.' Whatever town you enter and they do not receive you, go out into the streets and say, 'The dust of your town that clings to our feet, even that we shake off against you.' Yet know this: the kingdom of God is at hand. I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day than for that town. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would long ago have repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And as for you, Capernaum, 'Will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to the netherworld.'" Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." The seventy (-two) returned rejoicing, and said, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us because of your name." Jesus said, "I have observed Satan fall like lightning from the sky. Behold, I have given you the power 'to tread upon serpents' and scorpions and upon the full force of the enemy and nothing will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice because the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice because your names are written in heaven." ​

 

[catholichomeschooler]

Hello Unmasked,

You are correct in that Judaism does not believe in hell. As hard as it is for many Christians to believe, hell is introduced by Jesus and John the Baptist. I had a priest give a homily about how Moses was all hell, fire and brimstone and now Jesus countered that with 'love'. Well Moses taught love and Jesus quoted Moses on Love. Moses or any of Old Testament prophets never taught of the torment of burning in hell, hell is a new teaching of Jesus. Old Testament prophets taught of spiritual life and spiritual death after physical life, but there is no mention of the torment of burning in hell for all eternity. So you are right in that there is no hell in Jewish teachings.

As far as knowing Jesus and then rejecting Jesus, this did not go over well for the Jewish people of Jesus' day or in our day. Many of the Jewish Pharisees were baptized by John and followed Jesus. Jesus did not exalt the Jewish leaders as God's chosen few to inherit the 'Kingdom of God' above the repentant tax collectors and prostitutes. For this reason the Jewish leaders murdered and rejected Jesus. Thus we have the Catholic Church who did accept Jesus. Rejecting Jesus for any reason, whether it be the evil in the Jewish leaders hearts, or any other reason, is not the path to eternal life. To believe in Jesus Christ, the Messiah of the Jews, is the path to eternal life. Whether you believe that you will burn in hell for all eternity or not, you will not go to heaven outside of doing so through the blood of Jesus. You have rejected Jesus therefore, like the Jews of Jesus day, this puts you in a tough spot as far as going to heaven. And, yes, Jesus taught that if you reject Him and His teaching, you go to hell.

NAB2 MAR 8:38

Whoever is ashamed of me and of my words in this faithless and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of when he comes in his Father's glory with the holy angels."

NAB2 LUK 10:8

Whatever town you enter and they welcome you, eat what is set before you, cure the sick in it and say to them, 'The kingdom of God is at hand for you.' Whatever town you enter and they do not receive you, go out into the streets and say, 'The dust of your town that clings to our feet, even that we shake off against you.' Yet know this: the kingdom of God is at hand. I tell you, it will be more tolerable for Sodom on that day than for that town. "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty deeds done in your midst had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would long ago have repented, sitting in sackcloth and ashes. But it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the judgment than for you. And as for you, Capernaum, 'Will you be exalted to heaven? You will go down to the netherworld.'" Whoever listens to you listens to me. Whoever rejects you rejects me. And whoever rejects me rejects the one who sent me." The seventy (-two) returned rejoicing, and said, "Lord, even the demons are subject to us because of your name." Jesus said, "I have observed Satan fall like lightning from the sky. Behold, I have given you the power 'to tread upon serpents' and scorpions and upon the full force of the enemy and nothing will harm you. Nevertheless, do not rejoice because the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice because your names are written in heaven." ​

I think you are mistaken. Dennis Prager, a radio host and a Jewish theologian, definitely believes in Hell. I'm no expert on Judaism, but here is something I found related to this subject:

Heaven and Hell in Jewish Tradition - My Jewish Learning

 

[Autumnleaf]

First of all, if this thread is in the wrong section, I'm sorry. I'm still trying to figure my way around this site. If it is the wrong forum, hopefully it'll be reported and placed in the correct one

Now, I have never gotten an answer from any priests or people who deal with apologetics, so I'm not sure if I'll get an answer here either, but here goes nothing.

If someone were to leave the Catholic Church and convert to another religion (in my case, Orthodox Judaism) according to the Church, do they go to hell? G-d bless y'all!

FYI Judaism doesn't believe in hell but I just want the Catholic perspective

Only God knows and He hasn't been too vocal about it lately that we know of.

 

[UnmaskedHearts]

I think you are mistaken. Dennis Prager, a radio host and a Jewish theologian, definitely believes in Hell. I'm no expert on Judaism, but here is something I found related to this subject

I read the article you provided. Dennis himself states from the article "While the vision of Sheol is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgement or reward and punishment attached to it. In fact the more pessimistic books of the Tanakh, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Sheol, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man."

So by that description, no, hell as you believe it, is not real.

I had to take out the link until I get 50 posts.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

Alonso there is no concept of hell in Judaism. And please explain how you take that verse (Isaiah 66:24) as referring to a hell. If you say hell in the sense of the grave you would be correct. But Judaism does not teach hell.

Have you talked to a rabbi about

Perhaps you have to take into account that current judaism is Talmud based, not necesarily Torah Based, Talmud is an interpretation of torah according to some Babylonic jews who now constitute the majority, but Talmud didn't exist in the times of the Apostles, and Isaiah 66,24 is refered by Jesus as the eternal punishment after life.

 

[UnmaskedHearts]

Perhaps you have to take into account that current judaism is Talmud based, not necesarily Torah Based, Talmud is an interpretation of torah according to some Babylonic jews who now constitute the majority, but Talmud didn't exist in the times of the Apostles, and Isaiah 66,24 is refered by Jesus as the eternal punishment after life.

In your belief not mine. The Tanakh is the Jews scripture not the Christians. So I would think they know how to interpret their scripture.

 

[catholichomeschooler]

I read the article you provided. Dennis himself states from the article "While the vision of Sheol is rather bleak (setting precedents for later Jewish and Christian ideas of an underground hell) there is generally no concept of judgement or reward and punishment attached to it. In fact the more pessimistic books of the Tanakh, such as Ecclesiastes and Job, insist that all of the dead go down to Sheol, whether good or evil, rich or poor, slave or free man."

So by that description, no, hell as you believe it, is not real.

I had to take out the link until I get 50 posts.

I think it is clear that Jews and Christians have different views of the afterlife.

I don't think it would be entirely accurate to say that they don't believe in Hell, but that their view of Hell is different than that of Christians.

 

[Alonso_Castillo]

In your belief not mine. The Tanakh is the Jews scripture not the Christians. So I would think they know how to interpret their scripture.

That is why you may go to hell

And remmember, The Lord Jesus, Mary, John Baptist, St. Elizabeth, The 12 Apostles and the first christians were all of them Jews and they didn't know talmud because it didn't exist. Current jews have talmud as sacred as Tanakh, and talmud was written with all hate against Jesus, so there you have it, corrent jew base their faith not in Tanakh but in Talmud which was written well after The Gospels...