Question for Sabbatarians

[klutedavid]

We serve unleavened bread with communion. What you mentioned is a Jewish feast day---also called sabbaths. This is the Passover. I am not Jewish. Many Christian Jews keep this.

Exo 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exo 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

which is what Paul was talking about when he said:
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

He was talking about the Jewish fest days that are also called sabbaths. He was saying if you, as a Jew want to keep those days, it's OK--Gentiles do not need to. Christians do not follow the feasts that pointed to Jesus---those were the shadow of things to come.

Some Christian churches celebrate the Passover
and not just Jewish Christians (messianic).

Here is something for you to ponder.

Passover begins on the 15th day of the Jewish month of Nisan, which usually occurs in March or April.

Did you notice that in a lunar calendar the Passover always begins on the fifteenth day of the month. And that day will always be a Sabbath day.

In a solar calendar the Passover begins in one of two Roman months, i.e., March or April. This year Passover is on Friday, April 19th.

The lunar calendar has the fifteenth day of the Nisan month and is always the start of Passover.
Yet the solar calendar Passover is not on the fifteenth day of the month.

Do you see the difference?

Solar months and lunar months are not synchronized. The first day of a lunar month is always a Monday whereas the first day of a solar calendar can be any day of the week.

Now we know why the Passover moves around on a solar calendar from month to month. But on a lunar calendar the Passover never fails to start exactly at night on the fifteenth day.

The seventh day in a lunar calendar is not the same day as the seventh day in a solar calendar.

Lunar years are eleven days shorter than a solar years. Lunar months are shorter that solar months.

The Hebrew calendar was never a solar calendar.

 

[klutedavid]

We serve unleavened bread with communion. What you mentioned is a Jewish feast day---also called sabbaths. This is the Passover. I am not Jewish. Many Christian Jews keep this.

Exo 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exo 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

which is what Paul was talking about when he said:
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

He was talking about the Jewish fest days that are also called sabbaths. He was saying if you, as a Jew want to keep those days, it's OK--Gentiles do not need to. Christians do not follow the feasts that pointed to Jesus---those were the shadow of things to come.

You may like to read your post again and more carefully.

Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.

Did you spot this 'ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.'

So is this an eternal ordinance or is it not an eternal ordinance?

 

[mmksparbud]

You may like to read your post again and more carefully.

Did you spot this 'ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.'

So is this an eternal ordinance or is it not an eternal ordinance?

Yes--and Jews still keep it and always will for it commemorates the Day they were led out of Egypt. As I already stated in post #100 ( maybe you missed it in your frantic attempt to put me down)--- I AM NOT JEWISH. I would keep it if I were.

 

[klutedavid]

Yes--and Jews still keep it and always will for it commemorates the Day they were led out of Egypt. As I already stated in post #100 ( maybe you missed it in your frantic attempt to put me down)--- I AM NOT JEWISH. I would keep it if I were.

Catholics keep it also and they are not Jewish. I think there may also be other churches that observe it.

 

[klutedavid]

Yes--and Jews still keep it and always will for it commemorates the Day they were led out of Egypt. As I already stated in post #100 ( maybe you missed it in your frantic attempt to put me down)--- I AM NOT JEWISH. I would keep it if I were.

I asked you whether it is an eternal observance?

 

[klutedavid]

Lunar and solar months are different.

The seventh day on a lunar calendar is not the seventh day on a solar calendar.

Lunar months start when the new moon is sighted. That is why they are called lunar months. The days in a lunar month are always the same days every month.

In a solar calendar the days of a month roll on from the previous month. So the seventh day of the month in a solar calendar can be any day of the week. This is not the case in a lunar calendar, the seventh day is always exactly the same day.

 

[Semper-Fi]

Here is something for you to ponder.

Passover begins on the 15th day of the Jewish month of Nisan, which usually occurs in March or April.

You can prove from the bible
The Passover starts on the 14th
not the 15th.

 

[klutedavid]

You can prove from the bible
The Passover starts on the 14th
not the 15

Thanks for the reply.

Passover commences on the 15th of the Hebrew month of Nisan and lasts for either seven days (in Israel and for Reform Jews and other progressive Jews around the world who adhere to the biblical commandment) or eight days for Orthodox, Hasidic, and most Conservative Jews (in the diaspora).[11][12] (wikipedia)

The point is not so much which tradition you follow. The main point is that the Jewish Passover always falls on exactly the same day on the lunar calendar and that exact day is the fourteenth day (Exodus) of the lunar month.

It is only on a solar, papal calendar that the date of the Passover moves around.

Your missing the main issue, that the days in a lunar calendar are always exactly the same days every month.

The papal calendar is not the monthly calendar
that the Hebrews used.

Lunar and Solar Calendar Conventions
Most places around the world use a solar calendar rather than a lunar one. However, Muslims and Jews follow a lunar calendar. Islamic calendars, otherwise known as Hijri calendars, are based on the lunar cycle, and its year consists of 12 lunar months.
(wikipedia; The Difference Between Solar & Lunar Years - Sciencing)

The day count in any lunar month is not the same as the day count on a solar, papal calendar.

The fourteenth day or fifteenth day of Nisan is the same every year on a lunar calendar. This is not the case on the papal calendar.

 

[klutedavid]

You can prove from the bible
The Passover starts on the 14th
not the 15th.

The Aish Rabbi Replies:
Thank you for your interesting question. You are right that the Torah makes mention of a holiday on the 14th of Nisan. But interestingly, that is a separate holiday from Passover, which begins on the 15th. If you read Leviticus 23:5-6 carefully, you will see that there are actually two holidays at this time:

(a) “Pesach” – the slaughtering and eating of the paschal lamb (or goat) which begins the afternoon of the 14th with its slaughtering and continues that night with its consumption.

(b) “The Holiday of Matzot” – the seven day feast we refer to as Passover, which begins the night of the 15th.

Today, without our holy Temple, we do not bring the Passover offering. Thus, the only holiday relevant to us is Passover itself which begins on the 15th. Even so, the 14th is still considered a minor holiday – mainly in commemoration of the ancient holiday, where many have the custom not to work (beyond Passover preparations) and there is likewise a custom to study the laws of the Passover offering (Shulchan Aruch O.C. 46:8:1-3, Mishna Berurah 1).

Another relevant point is that although in most areas of Jewish law, a “day” begins the evening before, for Temple service the night follows the day. This is as the Temple offerings of the day would often be burned or consumed the night after (and many would become invalid the next day). Thus, the holiday of "Pesach" actually began the day of the 14th, ending the night of the 15th.

 

[mmksparbud]

I asked you whether it is an eternal observance?

I said yes--if your Jewish---read post #100 again.

 

[klutedavid]

I said yes--if your Jewish---read post #100 again.

What do you mean by saying if your Jewish?

Either Exodus was written for the Jews or it was written for all mankind?

How can one law apply and another law be abolished?

That is not something I have ever seen in the scripture. Nowhere does the scripture ever say that this law is valid, but this other law is abolished.

 

[klutedavid]

We serve unleavened bread with communion. What you mentioned is a Jewish feast day---also called sabbaths. This is the Passover. I am not Jewish. Many Christian Jews keep this.

Exo 12:12 For I will pass through the land of Egypt this night, and will smite all the firstborn in the land of Egypt, both man and beast; and against all the gods of Egypt I will execute judgment: I am the LORD.
Exo 12:13 And the blood shall be to you for a token upon the houses where ye are: and when I see the blood, I will pass over you, and the plague shall not be upon you to destroy you, when I smite the land of Egypt.
Exo 12:14 And this day shall be unto you for a memorial; and ye shall keep it a feast to the LORD throughout your generations; ye shall keep it a feast by an ordinance for ever.
Exo 12:15 Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.

which is what Paul was talking about when he said:
Col_2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days:

He was talking about the Jewish fest days that are also called sabbaths. He was saying if you, as a Jew want to keep those days, it's OK--Gentiles do not need to. Christians do not follow the feasts that pointed to Jesus---those were the shadow of things to come.

What you said does not make sense.

The Jews celebrate a seven or an eight day Passover. Your communion service is probably on one single day. That is not the same count no matter how you observe it.

The fifteenth day is a Sabbath day on the lunar Hebrew Calendar and that is the same fifteenth day every year.

I have no idea what you are talking about as it has nothing to do with the scripture.

 

[mmksparbud]

What do you mean by saying if your Jewish?

Either Exodus was written for the Jews or it was written for all mankind?

How can one law apply and another law be abolished?

That is not something I have ever seen in the scripture. Nowhere does the scripture ever say that this law is valid, but this other law is abolished.

What's so difficult to understand that Passover is a Jewish celebration of their release from the bondage of Egypt? If you want to keep it, by all means do so. It can be taken as a spiritual escaping from the bondage to sin. But circumcision and some feasts were specifically for the Jew. How many times do I need to ask that you read post #100? Paul explained it quite well.

What you said does not make sense.

The Jews celebrate a seven or an eight day Passover. Your communion service is probably on one single day. That is not the same count no matter how you observe it.

The fifteenth day is a Sabbath day on the lunar Hebrew Calendar and that is the same fifteenth day every year.

I have no idea what you are talking about as it has nothing to do with the scripture.

All I said was that we serve unleavened bread at communion---I did not say that it replaced Passover! Your question was about unleavened bread.

"Now who instructed Israel to eat unleavened bread, was that a Rabbi or God Himself?"
READ HEBREWS.
​

 

[klutedavid]

What's so difficult to understand that Passover is a Jewish celebration of their release from the bondage of Egypt? If you want to keep it, by all means do so. It can be taken as a spiritual escaping from the bondage to sin. But circumcision and some feasts were specifically for the Jew. How many times do I need to ask that you read post #100? Paul explained it quite well.

All I said was that we serve unleavened bread at communion---I did not say that it replaced Passover! Your question was about unleavened bread.

"Now who instructed Israel to eat unleavened bread, was that a Rabbi or God Himself?"
READ HEBREWS.
​

Why would you serve unleavened bread at communion, where did you get that idea from?

Why do refer to the breaking of the bread as communion, the word 'communion' is a Catholic concept from memory?

 

[klutedavid]

What's so difficult to understand that Passover is a Jewish celebration of their release from the bondage of Egypt? If you want to keep it, by all means do so. It can be taken as a spiritual escaping from the bondage to sin. But circumcision and some feasts were specifically for the Jew. How many times do I need to ask that you read post #100? Paul explained it quite well.

All I said was that we serve unleavened bread at communion---I did not say that it replaced Passover! Your question was about unleavened bread.

"Now who instructed Israel to eat unleavened bread, was that a Rabbi or God Himself?"
READ HEBREWS.
​

I disagree strongly with your interpretation of Paul's letter to the Colossian church. I don't like interpretations they distort the scripture.

 

[mmksparbud]

Why would you serve unleavened bread at communion, where did you get that idea from?

Why do refer to the breaking of the bread as communion, the word 'communion' is a Catholic concept from memory?

Take eat this is my body---my blood. No leavening was allowed at the Passover. We serve unfermented grapple juice. It is what Christ instituted at the last supper. Communion is the common name---Sunday is also a Catholic concept.

I disagree strongly with your interpretation of Paul's letter to the Colossian church. I don't like interpretations they distort the scripture.

Interpret it any way you like. I wrote what it says--not my interpretation.

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hello, it is God who work and rested..

Manna did not fall on the Sabbath because God rested on that day..so no manna fall from heaven...

This is where the Scripture clearly state that God commanded the 7th day Sabbath to be kept by man...Exodus 20:8..."Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy...

God does not need rest. So why did He command man rest. Why could the people not go out and collect other food?

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

Hello, is there any scripture to support that?

Read Genesis and then what Yeshua said

 

[Yeshua HaDerekh]

.

 

[pasifika]

God does not need rest. So why did He command man rest. Why could the people not go out and collect other food?

Hello, so why was there no manna on the 7th day? Yes God does not need rest, but He can stop working right?

The people couldn't go out and collect other food because they are in a desert called the "desert of Sin"..you can read that in Exodus 16...