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Question for Sabbatarians

Discussion in 'Sabbath and The Law' started by godenver1, Jul 10, 2019.

  1. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    And whoe doesn't know that? What has that got to do with the fact that Jesus created everything?
     
  2. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Very good post.

    You actually quoted the two commandments that we must obey.
    The apostles never said that the Gentiles must obey the ten commandments.

    God is love and He commanded us to love others as He loved us.
     
  3. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Do you follow the Hebrew lunar month or the papal, solar calendar?
     
  4. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Day to day by the country you're in. I observe Sabbath from sundown Fri to sundown Sat night.
     
  5. pasifika

    pasifika Active Member

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    God created everything through the Son...
     
  6. gospels

    gospels Active Member Supporter

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    If you choose to live all your days for the glory of God, you do well and will receive your blessings.

    Any particular day you choose to rest and dedicate it to the Lord, you do well and will receive your blessings.


    If you choose to keep sabbath and have God’s grace to be able to keep it, you do well and will receive your blessings.

    As we know from the scriptures, God blessed the seventh day and that number seven is special for Him. If you are able to follow sabbath and the biblical cycles, you will have a better understanding of certain things that God orchestrated and prophecies that are yet to come. You might even discover some secrets that are hid in the scriptures. God has set the times and all the universe runs according to the clock set by Him, and it is a great blessing to sync yourself to His clock.
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2019
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  7. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    If you would only think about what you write instead of parroting what you have heard you would realize that there is absolutely nothing in the 10 commandments about love. "Thou shalt not" does not connote love, They 10 were about duty to God and their fellow man.

    If you would do a thorough study about the covenants you would realize that the Sinai covenant was for only Israel. That covenant contained the Sabbath requirement. It pointed to the rest we now have in Jesus. The new covenant is not about keeping ritual days. God has not chosen to reveal to any other nation the need to rest on a certain day of the week. It is only churches like the Adventist church that insists we must observe a day given only to Israel. They insist so much that they spread the falsehood that if we don't keep it we will lose our eternal inheritance? Paul was adamant that salvation is not hinged on our works yet the SDA church makes works a salvational issue. Paul wrote that Christians are not under the Law. Why do SDAs and others not believe the words of Paul? Paul also wrote that we are not under the 10 commandments because they are "done away". Why is it SDAs would rather believe a prophet that has been proven over and over to be false?

    No, I am not free to do as I please. Jesus has made that quite clear, we are to believe and love others as Jesus loves us.

    The problem is that you have made a false premise of what God pleases.

    Which day it WAS. Jesus and the disciples were under the law the required the observance of the Sinai covenant, we are not. It is yours to prove differently.

    Thank you. Then stop telling us that we are going to Hell if we don't fall in line with what you believe.

    The difference is that God has not asked us to do what He asked Cain.

    That is correct, it is only a day just like any other day.

    If you feel like you must keep the 4th commandment then you need to take a look at the rest of the command that SDAs never touch on. "Six days thou shalt labor" to me would be just as important of a command as resting on one day yet SDAs use Sunday as a day of recreation. A good day for a round of golf, a cookout or a day at the lake instead of the command to labor that day. I thank the Lord that I don't have all that hanging over my head. I thank the Lord that He took all the old covenant ritual laws (yes, the Sabbath was a ritual law) away at Calvary and gave all mankind the Law of loving others as Jesus loves us. If we come close to observing that command He will say welcome home my faithful children.
     
  8. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    How very wrong you are!! The commandments show the character of God. He isn't just loving, He is love and His words are based on love. I never said anyone is going to hell unless they believe as I do.
    I've said over and over---you need not keep it---You can do as you please. I just prefer to do as God says. We are on here because the OP says we are teaching false doctrine and we prove biblically we are not and no one has yet to produce one single verse that says God changed the Sabbath to any other day. We do labor 6 days a week. Anyone who says they keep everyday holy would be called lazy for you can't refrain from working every single day. The command for Sabbath is not merely about not working on that day.

    Isa 58:13 If thou turn away thy foot from the sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the sabbath a delight, the holy of the LORD, honourable; and shalt honour him, not doing thine own ways, nor finding thine own pleasure, nor speaking thine own words:

    And most people who say they keep Sunday will still come home and mow the lawn and watch football--or do whatever they please after church.
    No one answers to any Sabbath keeper---we all answer to God.
    The law that was done away with is quite obvious, it was the Levitical laws that pointed to Jesus as the Sacrificial Lamb for He is the fulfillment of those and is now our High Priest. Unless God Himself says we are not to keep the Sabbath, then His word stands as far as I'm concerned. If you feel otherwise---do your own thing and stop telling us we are teaching false doctrines. We teach what the bible says.
     
  9. Bob S

    Bob S Well-Known Member Supporter

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    All you are doing is parroting your peers and the false prophet. The 10 commandments do not begin to show the character of God. That is a complete misnomer and it really makes me sick when that old cliche is used to identify God.

    Your opinion, read the commandments and show me one place where you think the commands are about love.
    You are a SDA are you not? Identifying yourself and spreading their doctrines places you as one who believes the remainder of us are going to Hell. Either believe as you do or face the consequences of the judgment.

    Actually, you are doing what the church says and not what God has given to Christians to obey. You have bought into a false teaching church just as I once did. Once you are there it is difficult to see the real truth.


    Hold on there partner. No one has to "prove" the changing of the day because there is no proof. There is no special day, so why would anyone try to prove different? Your question is unanswerable so don't go patting yourself on the back that you have proven something. What we do know that DSASs and others will not recognize is that the 10 commandments have been done away. Here is that proof: 2Cor3:
    7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:

    8 How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?

    9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.

    10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.

    11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.

    Paul was not mincing words when he wrote that the 10 commandments were the ministry of death and that they have been done away. What does done away mean to you? the weekly Sabbath was one of the laws contained in the 10 commandments written on stone. All 10 were done away and replaced by the Holy Spirit. Read that passage over and over and you too will be a changed person.

    Who are "we"? "We" certainly are not members of the SDA church.

    Are you serious?

    Right, it is also about working six days which very few do.


    Are you able to fulfill those commands? You would be the first.

    Please don't come across as being pious. You know in your heart that you have never met the requirements of Is 58.
    The fact is SDAs try to act pious. Most won't tell others that they have their own thoughts and seek their own pleasure. You may not mow the grass, but you surely do not meet the requirements of Is58. Saying such a thing would be hypocritical.

    Your statement proves you have not studied the New Testament and especially 2Cor 3:7-11.
     
  10. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Really? You think God approves of stealing? Does He approve of murder? How about covetousness? Is it OK to dishonor your parents? Is it in His character to lie? Is God happy when people take His name in vain?
    Is God going to let any murderer, liar, thief, blasphemer, or covetous person into heaven? It may make you sick to be around people who do not do these things, but it makes God sick to see people do these things. God is love--and His word is love. Sorry if you think otherwise. Do you think it is loving to do these things? Do we show love for God when we worship other gods? How is not stealing unloving? How does committing adultery show love?

    No one can change the word of God. God gave the Sabbath to mankind, and it is for our benefit. In His love God saw our need to stop our labor and spend time with Him. And you call that unloving? You call it a burden for God to want for us to take a day off from our labors and relax, enjoy His creation? That shows God is not love?
    It is quite obvious that the Levitical laws pointi9ng to the death of Jesus as our Sacrificial Lamb were done away with at the cross---there is no more need of them---is there no more need to treat our fellow man with love by not stealing, by not murdering? Do we no longer have to stay faithful to our spouses? Please quote the verse that states anyone who does these things without repenting will enter into His presence.

    Good grief---how hard is it to not work on the Sabbath? How difficult is it to worship God and take delight in His day? It does not take piety! How much piety does it take to set our troubles and labors aside for one day a week and relax our bodies and brains?


    Working 7 days a week is not what God wants for our health. Working six days does not mean you are working at a paying job---Doing our own things on those 6 days is not hard to do! I worked 4 days a week. I tended to housework and such during those 2 days off. It's easy to end up working 7 days a week and exhaust our minds and bodies--God very lovingly said to not do that.

    I absolutely have. All of it, not just the parts that seem to allow me to do whatever I want and sin against God. No sinner gets into heaven. Jesus did not die in vain. What God asks of you He enables us to do and His blood covers our sins which also means we must repent of those sins and repentance means to turn away from them. My God is able. Jesus died to give me the power to obey and have my sins washed away.

    Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
    Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.
     
  11. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    Hello mmksparbud.

    You quoted from the book of Revelation below.
    You stated that you are under the ten commandments so for example, if you covet your neighbor's oxen you will die.

    So please explain how being 'fearful' will condemn you, because being fearful is not in the ten commandments?

    How is a 'whore monger' guilty of a sin under the ten commandments?

    Why is 'sorcery' mentioned by John when we know that sorcery is not mentioned in the ten commandments?
     
  12. BNR32FAN

    BNR32FAN He’s a Way of life Supporter

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    Your not making any sense and it’s pretty obvious that your intent is to twist anything I say to it’s worse possible outcome even to go so far as to twist it into completely different topics. All I said was that Moses did not give the commandment to keep the Sabbath until 2,000 years after creation. Nowhere before Exodus 20 is there any mention of anyone keeping the sabbath. As for a commandment about murder who knows? It appears God spoke to Adam, Eve, Cain, and Able on a regular basis so it’s uncertain what all was said. Nobody seemed shocked when God spoke to them and Cain had the audacity to even smart off to God when he said “Am I my brother’s keeper?” I wouldn’t be the least bit surprised if God had already explained to them what sin was because He told Cain “Sin is crouching at the door and it’s desire is for you.” This would indicate that Cain had some level of knowledge of what sin is.
     
  13. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Obviously God had spoken to them--where there is no law there is no sin--sin is the transgression of the law. If Cain was not aware of what God had wanted him to do in worship, God would not have said sin lieth at the door.
    Jas_4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

    God is not going to accuse anyone of sin when they don't know it is wrong. I do not twist anything---facts are facts and denying them does not make them go away.

    The Sabbath was given at creation---who was it given to? Jesus plainly stated it was made for man-=--He did not say it was made for the Jew. You certainly are free to believe whatever you want. If you want to believe that God instituted a day set aside to worship him and for no work to be done and then didn't tell anybody about for 2,000 years----you are free to believe it. I certainly do not. He told the Israelites to "remember"---is was not new. Why is it so upsetting to you that there are people who want to do what God says and believe what the bible says? If we are wrong--all you have to do is quote the verse that says God has changed the Sabbath day to some other day----easy. You would never see another Sabbatarian defending their right to believe what God says.

    If you know what is right and do not do it--then it is sin ---can't get plainer than that---When you trust God there is no fear--God is love and that is what He brings into our heart.

    1Jn_4:18 There is no fear in love; but perfect love casteth out fear: because fear hath torment. He that feareth is not made perfect in love.

    We do not pick and choose what to read in the bible and discard what is inconvenient.

    Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
    Joh_14:21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
    Joh_15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
    1Jn_5:2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
    1Jn_5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
    2Jn_1:6 And this is love, that we walk after his commandments. This is the commandment, That, as ye have heard from the beginning, ye should walk in it.


    Mat 22:37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
    Mat 22:38 This is the first and great commandment.
    Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.
    Mat 22:40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.
    Joh 13:34 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
    Joh 13:35 By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

    To love God is to be willing to obey whatever He says. He doesn't ask anything that is impossible to do. He doesn't demand anything of anyone that He will not then enable them to do.
     
  14. klutedavid

    klutedavid Well-Known Member

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    You did not reply to my previous post regarding your quotation from the book of Revelation.

    How is a 'whore monger' guilty of a sin under the ten commandments?

    Why is 'sorcery' mentioned by John when we know that sorcery is not mentioned in the ten commandments?
     
  15. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Good grief---neither is blowing your nose on your sleeves! Seriously? You need to have no fornication as a commandment? There are many things not mentioned in the 10---those are the most important. The bible is taken as a whole not just Ex. 20!! Bikinis are not mentioned either. I don't suggest you go to work in one. Neither is putting a crying baby into a pot of boiling water---I guess because it didn't say not to, my friends' mother put her in one! The Holy spirit does lead when one is open to it's leading and willing to go where it leads. Look---you don't want to keep the 7th---THEN DON'T! The 10 will not save you---however, breaking them unrepentantly will get you lost.
     
  16. pasifika

    pasifika Active Member

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    Hello, just a quick note on your first sentence...the verse in Romans 4:15...where there is no law there is no transgression...meaning the law revealed the sins that lives in us which causes us to break it...

    second point, is about the 7th day Sabbath...the Sabbath of the Lord after His work in creating the heavens and the earth...Gen 1

    The Sabbath was given as a sign between God and the Israelites...so just as God created the heavens and earth and rested on the 7th day, so are Redemption work of Jesus Christ to bring salvation to His people..

    This day of rest was Not given to Man until the covenant in Mt Sinai...because it is from this people the Son of Man, the Lord of the Sabbath is revealed the One who made people holy..Heb 2:11...
    He is an Israelite from the tribe of Judah..Jesus Christ

    So, the sign that He is the Lord was spoken by Jesus Himself in Matthew 12:38-40..."A wicked and adulterous generation ask for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the Prophet Jonah.
    For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth...

    If you figure this out, Jesus also rested in the grave on the the seventh day after finishing His work of Redemption and salvation...
     
  17. mmksparbud

    mmksparbud Well-Known Member

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    Again---the Sabbath was given at creation and Jesus said it was made for man---He did not say it was made for the Jew. If you want to believe that God created a day of rest for mankind and then failed to tell anyone about it until over 2,000 years, you are free to think so. I don't think God creates what is useless nor that He is careless and forgetful. And yes, Jesus rested on the 7th day and He never mentioned to anyone that now we were to celebrate the 1st day of the week in honor of His resurrection. No harm in doing so---but only Jesus can change what He Himself sanctified and made holy.
     
  18. Yeshua HaDerekh

    Yeshua HaDerekh Men can dream of truth, but then cant live with it

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    Except in Exodus 16 :)
     
  19. LaBèlla

    LaBèlla ❤️ Supporter

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    Beautifully stated. I came to faith in a Jewish synagogue and found my way back to God and Christ in the process. And I’m Jewish.

    It is clear Adonai hasn’t forgotten us as some believe. It is evident He has a purpose for His people. And even though I didn’t hear the gospel I saw it exemplified by everyone around me.

    Replacement theology didn’t stop my homecoming. It didn’t lessen the gifts and talents He bestowed or the abundant fruit I’ve produced. It didn’t quench the Spirit. It can’t. :)
     
  20. Shimshon

    Shimshon Well-Known Member

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    I'd be interested in that testimony. :) I also found Messiah because I had turned my heart back to the God of our fathers. Not because of the church. I believe God is restoring Israel in ways that amaze both Jews and non Jewish believers.

    I was raised by my Jewish grandparents who came from eastern Europe. Their love and devotion to our God and our people, and others influenced me to this very day. And I know I will see them again, I know our Messiah did not leave them behind.

    I don't think many Christians understand why Jews are being reached and saved by Yeshua outside of church membership. Or even without ever identifying as what they term as a Christian.

    For a Jew God is far more concerned about his life, his devotion, and his humility than he is with churches and membership. Though I do not believe in forsaking fellowship at all.

    What many don't grasp is even in our unbelief God will honor his promise to us. God actually set up the covenants that way. Jews and Gentiles alike. The covenant of grace through Yeshua operates this way as well as the covenant of circumcision. Both were hinged on faith. Yet only one deals with our sin.
    Amen, we are not only a loved and cherished people with a future in God's kingdom, we have overcome the enemy by the blood of the lamb. Revelation is about our restoration you know!?:)

    The Return of the King is inextricably linked to the restoration of Israel and our people! Halleluyah
     
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