Question for Sabbatarians

[pasifika]

When the Jews left Egypt, they came a a great mixed multitude. Those were gentiles. All who came into the Jewish camp kept Sabbath.
"nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:"

The Jews were never to have kept their faith to themselves--God meant for them to take it to the world--they instead became exclusive.

Hello, any Foreigners who want to join the Israelites must be circumcise just like native born Israelites,
Genesis 17:12,13....Exodus 12:48
And to follow All the laws etc God gave the Israelites...

"nor thy stranger that is within thy gates"- Gentiles who became Israelites Not remain as strangers But just like a native born Israelites..(male must circumcise )

Of course they meant to take the Good news to the world...and they Did
Most of the authors of 66 books in the bible are written by people descendants of Israel...

 

[pasifika]

God does not need to rest. Also what Yeshua was doing, good works, are not prohibited on Shabbat.

Hello, yes God does not need rest But He can Stop or cease from work as He did in creation...

Yes good works, are not not prohibited on the Sabbath or any other day....

 

[Mercy74]

Hello, any Foreigners who want to join the Israelites must be circumcise just like native born Israelites,
Genesis 17:12,13....Exodus 12:48
And to follow All the laws etc God gave the Israelites...

"nor thy stranger that is within thy gates"- Gentiles who became Israelites Not remain as strangers But just like a native born Israelites..(male must circumcise )

Of course they meant to take the Good news to the world...and they Did
Most of the authors of 66 books in the bible are written by people descendants of Israel...

Yes indeed "circumcision on the 8th" is required even during Sabbath.

 

[mmksparbud]

You are only posting scriptures not explaining them as Paul the son of a Pharisee have done.

Yes, well I am not a Pharisee, and these do not need explaining.

 

[klutedavid]

I demonstrated it false back on
post #176, will try again to get through.

Negative, your converting the Hebrew lunar date into a solar calendar date and then concluding, that the Hebrew date occurs on different days of the week. This methodology of yours is not correct and stop doing the conversion.

Tammuz 7 is not always the 7th day of the week every year, all the time, converted to Gregorian.

Why are you changing the Hebrew lunar date into a Gregorian solar date?

The seventh of Tammuz is always the seventh day of the lunar month. For this reason the Hebrews always honored the Sabbath on the seventh day of each month.

There is no reason to alter the Hebrew lunar date and why anyone would convert that date. Into a Gregorian calendar date, I think clearly illustrates that there is a deeper motive involved.

Here I will explain it simply for you.

The seventh day on a lunar calendar is always a Sabbath day. Read it again; the seventh day on a lunar calendar is always a Sabbath day!

If you convert a lunar date into a solar date your changing calendars, your actually changing how months are reckoned. Your altering how weeks are reckoned and calculated.

On a solar calendar the weeks are all connected to one another. One continuous flow of weeks all through the year regardless of the start of any month. A solar calendar can break a week in two, a week on a solar calendar can bridge across two months.

With a lunar calendar the month starts when the new moon is sighted and then the week starts. This is not how weeks start on a solar calendar.

Everyone fails to see that the days of old were numbered entities, first day, second, e.t.c. The days were numbered from the start of the new lunar month. In any Hebrew month the week begins when the new moon is seen, the day count of a week is not continuous across a lunar months.

Once again this is clearly observed below.

Tammuz 7 is not always the 7th day of the week every year, all the time, converted to Gregorian.

On the lunar calendar Tammuz the seventh is exactly the same every year and is a Sabbath day. This is not true if one picks up a Gregorian calendar and attempts to convert the lunar date onto a Gregorian calendar. These two calendars are calculated differently, one has lunar months and the other has solar months.

The error is in the detail and I don't think many would notice that the conversion process corrupts the actual true lunar date.

When you convert a lunar seventh day of the month to a solar day what happens is the solar day will not be the seventh day of the solar month.

Everyone automatically views a Hebrew day of the month as a solar day and they lose the significance of the days within a lunar month setting.

In all honesty, one needs to determine when the Sabbath days occur in the lunar calendar month and then honor that day on that calendar. Forget the papal calendar even exists and stop corrupting the Sabbath.

 

[klutedavid]

God declared the days--and the seventh day was the day He stopped creating for it was finished. It was not a day and night---it was a night and day. The reason for the 8th day circumcision is that after the 8th day after birth, blood clotting factors kick in. God did not say at creation that the 7th day is after a new moon---He said the 7th day is because He finished creating and He is the one that gets to decide.

Incorrect.

The lunar month starts the day count, the lunar week starts on the first day of the lunar month.

Solar calendars have weeks connected straight across the start of any month. Solar weeks ignore the start of a month, so you can have the third day of the week occurring on the first day of the month.

Everyone should be able to see this and I am not sure why everyone misses this point.

A solar calendar is vastly different to a lunar calendar. Lunar weeks are not a line of connected weeks across the entire year. Lunar weeks are based on the start of the lunar month. The numbering of each day is different on the two calendars.

 

[Mercy74]

Yes, well I am not a Pharisee, and these do not need explaining.

I know you are not a Pharisee.

 

[mmksparbud]

Hello, any Foreigners who want to join the Israelites must be circumcise just like native born Israelites,
Genesis 17:12,13....Exodus 12:48
And to follow All the laws etc God gave the Israelites...

"nor thy stranger that is within thy gates"- Gentiles who became Israelites Not remain as strangers But just like a native born Israelites..(male must circumcise )

Of course they meant to take the Good news to the world...and they Did
Most of the authors of 66 books in the bible are written by people descendants of Israel...

No---the Israelites never took the message to the world---the Apostles did! And circumcision then became no longer needed as the sign for His people for
Rom_2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:
Gal_3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Col_3:11 Where there is neither Greek nor Jew, circumcision nor uncircumcision, Barbarian, Scythian, bond nor free: but Christ is all, and in all.

All 1st Christians were Jews. But as a nation the Jews did not deliver the message to the world---and they still do not. As a nation they rejected the Messiah and now only some Jews accept Him. More will do so.

 

[mmksparbud]

Incorrect.

The lunar month starts the day count, the lunar week starts on the first day of the lunar month.

Solar calendars have weeks connected straight across the start of any month. Solar weeks ignore the start of a month, so you can have the third day of the week occurring on the first day of the month.

Everyone should be able to see this and I am not sure why everyone misses this point.

A solar calendar is vastly different to a lunar calendar. Lunar weeks are not a line of connected weeks across the entire year. Lunar weeks are based on the start of the lunar month. The numbering of each day is different on the two calendars.

What part of this is so difficult to understand? God instituted the 7th day Sabbath---the 7th day after the 6 days of creation. God says at creation

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

Change whatever you want and do whatever you want---you can not change the will of God.

 

[Semper-Fi]

The Hebrews rested on the seventh of every Hebrew month.

The seventh day, the fourteenth day,
the twenty first day of the month, e.t.c.
This is true of every Hebrew month.

Again where is the bible verse to back this claim?
The Sabbath rest day was the 7th day of the week.

Without a verse for this in the bible, this is
wrong, and the burden of proff is on you.

Negative, your converting the Hebrew lunar date
into a solar calendar date and then concluding, that
the Hebrew date occurs on different days of the week.

Why are you changing the Hebrew lunar
date into a Gregorian solar date?

Just following what you told me to do.

If you convert the seventh day of any Hebrew month to a solar day of any solar month. You will end up with a Sabbath on every day of the solar week throughout the year.

So I did that and showed several months there that did not fall on the same day like you said it would.

Again a web link to show this idea is required now.
You have showed no evidence except your words.

This methodology of yours is not correct
and stop doing the conversion.

This methodology of yours is straight from
the Babylonians, it is not mentioned in the bible
for the Hebrews to observe or figure.

-
Days

"Counting from the new moon, the Babylonians
celebrated every seventh day as a "holy-day",
also called an "evil-day" (meaning "unsuitable"
for prohibited activities).
Babylonian calendar - Wikipedia

Is this the mystery Babylon religion
we see in the bible in the end time ?

Can you show in the bible anywhere how
to figure the weekly 7th day Sabbath?

 

[klutedavid]

Again where is the bible verse to back this claim?
The Sabbath rest day was the 7th day of the week.

Without a verse for this in the bible, this is
wrong, and the burden of proff is on you.



Just following what you told me to do.



So I did that and showed several months there that did not fall on the same day like you said it would.

Again a web link to show this idea is required now.
You have showed no evidence except your words.



This methodology of yours is straight from
the Babylonians, it is not mentioned in the bible
for the Hebrews to observe or figure.

-
Days

"Counting from the new moon, the Babylonians
celebrated every seventh day as a "holy-day",
also called an "evil-day" (meaning "unsuitable"
for prohibited activities).
Babylonian calendar - Wikipedia

Is this the mystery Babylon religion
we see in the bible in the end time ?

Can you show in the bible anywhere how
to figure the weekly 7th day Sabbath?

Here is a question for you.

Tell me what day of the papal calendar is indicated in the following verse?

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty; so Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

 

[Semper-Fi]

Here is a question for you.

Tell me what day of the papal calendar is indicated in the following verse?

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty; so Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

Why ? you do not answer my questions.
why ? the papal calendar was not even made yet.

God gave His people, specifically the tribe of Judah,
the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of
the correct day (Romans 3:2).

The Jews of our time have done this job well.
You seem to claim more knowledge then them.

There is no question as to which day is the Sabbath
day to a Jew.Yet, it is not a Jewish day!

Still waiting for web proof, also bible conformation about a 7th, 14th , 21st, 28th day Sabbath every Hebrew month.

 

[Kaon]

1. Why is the Sabbath the only one of the ten commandments that are said to be "throughout your generations", the usual phrase that indicates it was a temporary ceremonial law only for the Jews?

From Bible.ca



Christians are not under the Mosaic law (Galatians 5:18). The Ten Commandments, as given to Israel, were apart of the Old Testament convenant (Deuteronomy 4:13). We aren't under that covenant (2 Corinthians 3:6).

If you wish to claim modern day believers must observe the Seventh day sabbath as the nation of Israel did, the Bible is not on your side and you teach false doctrine.

Where in Exodus 20:9-11 does it list "throughout your generations"?

If you mean "dowr" in Exodus 31:13 - that means generations, but also perpetuity as implication. The gene(aeology) of the remnant will never go away.

Why are you trying to find a way out of what our Father tells us to do? Our Father's Law has never been amended for anyone who wants to be His child; find one place where the Most High God, or the Redeemer Himself has said any part of the Law is null, void or inert. Humans make doctrine that qualifies the Law of the Most High God.

The Sabbath was for us - when we were too ignorant to realize that as images of the Most High God we are owed and demanded to take at least one day off of servile work to commune with the Most High God just like He did when He created the entirety of existence.

 

[klutedavid]

Why ? you do not answer my questions.
why ? the papal calendar was not even made yet.

God gave His people, specifically the tribe of Judah,
the responsibility of preserving the knowledge of
the correct day (Romans 3:2).

The Jews of our time have done this job well.
You seem to claim more knowledge then them.

There is no question as to which day is the Sabbath
day to a Jew.Yet, it is not a Jewish day!

Still waiting for web proof, also bible conformation about a 7th, 14th , 21st, 28th day Sabbath every Hebrew month.

You have no idea what day of the papal week the following verse is indicating. The reason is simple; because you do not follow a lunar calendar and you cannot convert that day.

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty; so Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

In no uncertain terms are we told exactly the day of the week in the verse above. It was the second day of the week, the second day of the new moon.

That is the proof verse.

Unless you can convert that day into a papal calendar day, you have lost the argument.

You can be rest assured that on the seventh day of the new moon the Sabbath will take place.

 

[Semper-Fi]

You have no idea what day of the papal week the following verse is indicating. The reason is simple; because you do not follow a lunar calendar and you cannot convert that day.

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty; so Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

In no uncertain terms are we told exactly the day of the week in the verse above. It was the second day of the week, the second day of the new moon.

That is the proof verse.

Unless you can convert that day into a papal calendar day, you have lost the argument.

You can be rest assured that on the seventh day of the new moon the Sabbath will take place.

Absurd

Still nothing in scripture about that

 

[Semper-Fi]

"It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty; so Saul said to Jonathan his son,
“Why has the son of Jesse not come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

Because David knew Saul was trying to kill him.
Nothing mentioned about keeping a monthly 7th day.
Again what you claim is what the babylonians did.

"Counting from the new moon, the Babylonians
celebrated every seventh day as a "holy-day",
also called an "evil-day" (meaning "unsuitable"
for prohibited activities).
Babylonian calendar - Wikipedia

In no uncertain terms are we told exactly the day of the week in the verse above. It was the second day of the week, the second day of the new moon.

So it was the second day after a new moon, so?

How does that prove there would be
a required Sabbath on the 7th day?

You have still yet to show where the
7th day of the month was ordained.

 

[klutedavid]

Absurd

Still nothing in scripture about that

Not absurd as that is in the scripture.

The days were numbered from the new moon.

1 Samuel 20:27
It came about the next day, the second day of the new moon, that David’s place was empty; so Saul said to Jonathan his son, “Why has the son of Jesse not come to the meal, either yesterday or today?”

THE SECOND DAY OF THE NEW MOON.

Obviously you hold to some other method of counting the days. So you must ignore the verse above.

You know from the scripture that the Jews observed a new moon festival every month.
Yet you fail to see the connection between the day numbers and the occurrence of the new moon.

From new moon to new moon, i.e., from month to month. From Sabbath to Sabbath, i.e., from week to week.

 

[klutedavid]

Because David knew Saul was trying to kill him,
nothing mentioned about keeping a monthly 7th day

The second day of the new moon!

Obviously the seventh day of the new moon has a significance which you cannot see.

 

[Semper-Fi]

You know from the scripture that the Jews observed a new moon festival every month.
Yet you fail to see the connection between the day numbers and the occurrence of the new moon.

Yes a new moon festival every month . But
I fail to see [and you have not provided] in Gods commands to keep the 7th day , 14 day, 21 day,
and 28 day of every month as a Sabbath day.

The verse you posted only refers to the second day of the month, as the second day of the month,
nothing more, not a command to keep anything.

If I say I celebrated the 4th day of the month,
this does not make the 7th day holy.

New testament says [on the first day of the week]
everyone knows this refers to the day we call Sunday.

Everyone knows this happens once a week, just like
the 7th day Sabbath happens once a week[Saturday].

 

[Semper-Fi]

The second day of the new moon!

Obviously the seventh day of the new moon has a significance which you cannot see.

You are putting words into the bible.
The 7th day , the Sabbath day
is not in those verses.

So do you keep these Sabbaths?
And what is the significance to you?