Question for Non vax/selective vax parents.

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NO DEBATING ALLOWED!! THIS IS NOT A VAX VS. NO VAX THREAD!!!!!!

Ok now that I've got that out of the way, I have a question. What made you decide to non vax or delay vax instead of selective vax? DH have pretty much decided that we will selective vax, following (with some modifications) Dr. Sears selective vax schedule. But someone asked me why we are selective vaxing instead of just holding off for the first year. I didn't really have an answer other than I'm paranoid and I want some protection for the big ones. Also since my family lives in Canada we will be traveling outside of the country during the first few years.

So did you do some vaxes? If so which ones? Which ones did you omit? Or are you just not getting any and you're going to fly by the seat of your pants and see how it goes?
 

seamonster

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We chose to do the IPV, DTaP, and Hib vaccines for my son's 1st year. For us, the chances of him getting pertussis were too high to not get the vaccine. My parents live in a low-income area where a lot of people don't vaccinate, and a LOT of people get whooping cough. Since we wanted to visit, as well as do other traveling, it was important for us to get that one. Traveling is also why we chose to get the IPV. While the chances of Polio are basically zip, we live in Hawaii and there are a lot of foreign tourists and a lot of weird diseases here that don't usually affect people in the midwest (TB "goes around" here...), so we wanted to get that one. The IPV has been around long enough for me to feel comfortable giving it to my child. Basically, we followed the suggested vaccination schedule from 1991 (as per my nursing and medical texts...).

We opted out of the HepB vaccine since my son is not exposed to other people's blood, but will get him that vaccine when he is a bit older. We chose not to get the Pneumoccocal vaccine since it hasn't been out long enough for me to be comfortable with, and I haven't been able to find enough information on possible long-term side effects. We also decided against RotaTeq since the FDA put out a warning about it in February 2007 that the vaccine could possibly cause intenstinal damage. Two other rotavirus vaccines have been pulled for the same reason. My son ended up catching rotavirus from the doctor's office at 6 weeks old and got pretty sick, but he was too young for the vaccine at that point for it to matter.

I'm sure you've already read it, but "What Your Doctor May Not Tell You About Children's Vaccinations" by Stephanie Cave is a great resource. She's not anti-vaccine in any way, but gives a lot of good information about both the ups and downs regarding shots.
 
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Yeah I've read that and Dr Sears vaccine book.

Sounds like we are going to be doing the same vac'ing as you... Thankfully our pedi follows Dr. Sears selective/delayed vax schedule so I'm really comfortable with that except he does not do the RotaTeq (Dr Sears recommends it) and he does not do teh HPV at age 12 (thank goodness).
 
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jgonz

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Sorry, this got long...

My oldest kids (25.5, 24, 18, 16) got all their vaccinations (although there were half as many back then as there are now). The only thing I was determined to change at that point in time, was to wait until 2 for the MMR. I think probably because the ped we had back with my oldest told me it wasn't safe to give a baby younger than 2 yrs old. So we waited until 2 with all the kids.

My 14 yr old was the one who changed my view on vaccinations. He was the only one to get the HepB at birth & 2 wks old, then his full set of shots at 2 months. He had a Terrible reaction to his shots and nearly died. (He stopped breathing several times the second night after his shots. I had to shake him 3 of those times to get him to breathe again~ if we weren't co-sleeping he would have died in the other room.) My ped denied that it was the shots, and I, like an idiot, believed him. So, my son had the rest of his shots, with the MMR at 2 yrs. I think if I had had him tested, he would place low on the Autism scale. He has problems focusing, his social skills aren't very good, etc. I've had him on a vaccination detox homeopathic formula, Virgin Coconut Oil, and Cod Liver Oil, and he's doing MUCH better now than he did a few years ago. But I still blame myself for not listening to my gut and believing my ped.

With the next 3 kids (10, 8, & 6), we selectively vaxed on My schedule (we did DT (no P), polio shot (not oral), HIB with one of them, something else with another one... I can't remember now). My youngest (6) got fewer than the other two, and None of my kids have gotten boosters in over 13 yrs.

The baby (3 mos) hasn't gotten anything yet and I'm still undecided as to what and when with him....

My oldest DD (25.5) is now pregnant with her first baby and has been told she's not immune to Rubella. So the MMR was POINTLESS to begin with. She can get a booster after the baby is born, but now we know that the Rubella shot is cultured in fetal cell tissue, and it's a live virus shot, so she's turning it down.

One thing I learned through all of this is that you Have to go with your gut, you have to research, and you have to stick up for what you want to do. If you have Any doubt in yourself, your ped/doctor is going to pick up on that and argue with you.

I finally changed pediatricians because I was tired of the confrontation every single visit (that and the fact that he was becoming extremely popular and the wait time was getting close to 2 hrs!) I had one long conversation with my new ped, he respects my decisions, and doesn't push. He just asks me what I'm doing about vaccinations and leaves it alone after I answer him. lol With the new baby he suggested I go to the health clinic to get the shots (because I thought I wanted special ones and his practice is too small to be able to afford specialized shots). So I may not do any for awhile... I would imagine the health clinic people are hardline and I am not up for a fight right now.

I got Dr.Sears' The Vaccine Book and while I disagree with some of it, I thought it was a good compromise. I may follow some of his ideas.
 
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Thanks jgonz :hug:

I agree on the Dr. Sears book- there are some that I disagree with and will modify as I see fit. I am so, so thankful that our pedi follows Dr. Sears recommendation with 1 modification (I believe it's the Roto, but I can't remember). So I will not have to deal with putting up a fight with a doctor.

I do have a question though, I thought the DT was less important than the P... now I am seeing other people say the opposite (including a friend I talked to this morning...) Maybe I need to go back through mybooks and read up on that one again.
 
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jgonz

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I thought the DT was less important than the P... now I am seeing other people say the opposite (including a friend I talked to this morning...)

I'm not doing the P (pertussis) because the potential side effects of the vaccination are higher. From doing a ton of reading, I came to the conclusion that it was the P or a combination of the P and the HepB that caused the breathing problems (or lack thereof) for my son.

Now a days they have the Accelular pertussis (DTaP or something) and it's supposedly a "killed" version of pertussis and "safer" than the old pertussis vax. I'm skeptical, but that's just me.

From everything I've read in the past few years, the number of cases of whooping cough (ie pertussis) are Higher in the vaccinated population~ not the other way around like you'd think. At any rate, I'm not comfortable with that one, so we're not doing it anymore. I think Dr.Sears says that it's more important than the DT.

Oh, back to your original question~ (which shots don't we do) we also don't do the rotavirus one, chickenpox, or MMR. There are some other newer ones that I can't remember right off the top of my head that we don't do either.
 
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gracepaints

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The catch 22 in my estimation of the selective/delayed vax issue is that many of the vaxes really aren't necessary after the first year because the diseases are less of a threat. For us, it was do it now or do it never.

Here is our schedule. We do our vaxes one at a time to watch for reactions and so as not to overload his system. We also waited until 4 months so that he was outside the prime SIDS window

4 months - Pc
5 months - DTaP
6 months - Pc
7 months - DTaP
8 months - Pc
9 months - DTaP

(If we were to do it again, I think I might switch and start with DTaP instead, but anyway).

I'm contemplating doing IPV (polio) at 10, 12 and 14 months and then Hib at 18 months. I'm still undecided about the 15 month booster for Pc.

As far as MMR - I *think* we are going to put it off until he is 4 or 5, do a single dose and then titer. We might split them up into the individual vaccines, but I'm not thrilled about him getting multiple pokes. The MMR is a nasty vax IMO, so I am still on the fence about it.

ETA:I can go into more detail about why I chose what vax, but I'll let you ask what you are interested about. Otherwise, I'll be writing a book...
 
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katelyn

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My answer for the question of why selective vaxing is that it's a personal choice and everyone deserves the right to make an informed decision to try to do what is best for theirchild. For example, a SAHM who nurses might delay or not do vaccines that a mom who has to put her child in daycare would want. Seamonster's case of getting different vaccines based on where she lives is another good example.

Personally, we only wanted to do Hib and DTaP, but ended up doing Hib/HepB combo because that was all that was available at our dr's office at the time that we started Noelle's vaccines (although at her latest one they didn't even have the combo shot and we had to do them separately...argh).
 
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Green Orchid

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Ah vaxes, that's one issue I wish I could just avoid thinking about. :swoon:

Zac will be one this week and he still hasn't had any vaccinations. Partly because I wanted to wait until he was a bit older and partly because I just can't make up my mind. :doh:

I've read Romm's and Dr.Sears' book, plus stuff on the web.

Here are my conclusions:

DTaP: I really wish we could give P alone, because I would at 2,4, and 6 months when it's most life-threatening. The P vax doesn't exist alone, and because of the possible connexion between DTaP (more DTP before) and SIDS, we chose not to give it at all.
For future babies, I'm thinking dh, me and ds will get the vax to protect the baby against us giving him P. So that means Zac will be getting DTaP at some point in the next year or two.

Polio: If/When we will travel, ds will get it.

HIB: Not giving it because ds is bfed and not in daycare, so it's not very risky.

Flu: No way.

Pc: I would've considered this one if I didn't read in Sears' book that 96% of Pc infections are NOT included in the vaccine - that was a dealbreaker for me. Also, not very risky for a bfed baby not in daycare.

Meningitis: Here it is given at 12 months. Not sure yet about this one because although it's approved in Canada, it's not in the US, so it's a very recent vaccine with probably unknown side effects. It is known to be highly reactive, so it bothers me. But meningitis is serious, so I don't know.

MMR and Varicella: Will do a titer test when ds is 10 years old. If not immune, will vax.

Hep B: Might vax when ds is around 12 (time at which it is possible - please no! - to be sexually active).

Good luck in your decisions, I know it's not easy!
 
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You don't HAVE to do anything. They cannot make you. You can sign waivers, you have rights.

As for the Hep B... if I were going to eliminate only ONE vax, it would be the Hep B vax. Unless you have Hep B, I don't suspect your infant will be sharing dirty needles or having unprotected sex with multiple partners??/

Oh there I go, breaking my own no debate rule :D
 
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Leanna

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My answer for the question of why selective vaxing is that it's a personal choice and everyone deserves the right to make an informed decision to try to do what is best for theirchild. For example, a SAHM who nurses might delay or not do vaccines that a mom who has to put her child in daycare would want. Seamonster's case of getting different vaccines based on where she lives is another good example.

I agree.


Ya know I asked my mid-wife about vaccinations and here in FL. it's gainst the law to not get certain ones. Kids have to be vaccinated before going to school. At birth she will have to get a Hep B shot.

That's what they want you to think, but that's not true.
 
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jgonz

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SOFB and Leanna are 100% right~ NO shot is mandatory. They can not Make you do any shot. You can still put your child in daycare &/or public/private school without getting shots. It's not "against the law" to not do vaccinations. AND, you can do some and not others. It is not breaking the law to delay, selectively vax, or refuse all.

Every single state has waiver forms. There are philosophical, medical (hard to get), and religious waivers. Each state has their own way of handling this, but all Do have waivers.

Here is a site that has each state info & waivers: http://www.vaclib.org/exemption.htm
 
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Hadassah

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Here's what we decided:

Absolutely, positively no more vaccines or oral "vaccines" until 1 year. Twice we did the Vitamin K before we really knew what all was in it, and the way it was explained to us was basically we couldn't argue it because we had a boy.. yadda yadda (it was done around 6 days old due to him being a little yellow and his numbers taken from his foot -- DUH I know now..) and the next at his first Pediatric well baby visit at 4 weeks.


After two months of reading and studying really hard in my down time + the sporadic studying in the last 2-4 months of pregnancy, I feel pretty confident in my decision.

We talked with the pediatrician on our last visit, and he seemed really impressed with my homework and with our choices. He was iffy about our not wanting the Hib vaccine, but he understood my reasons. I explained that I found on the insert and on the medical websites back home (CDC and the like) that it raises the baby's IgE and IgA levels. Now, we are already gluten free and he is prone to celiac disease --- but I know he already has issues with gluten as he's reacted to disposable diapers, and that was before I knew there was gluten in them (I didn't know until his 7th week or so).

So, in one year we will discuss vaccines again and begin scheduling them. I don’t look for him to have completed any of the “normal rounds” until 4 years of age. I want to split the MMR completely and remove Rubella unless we can find an alternative to the current vaccine which contains aborted fetal cells.

Rotavirus: This was not a vaccine when any of the family or cousins had their rounds of vaccines. We actually (in my family) never caught this one until we lived in Spain. I was 12, my brother was 9 and my sister was 7. It hit us pretty bad, but from my reasearch, it was better to get the rotavirus and build up an immunity rather than having a live oral vaccine or the vaccine that has just been put out.
Per the CDC website/package inserts, this is a vaccine that is not reccommended for children who have a history of intestinal disorders (incl familial). This is one that the CDC/FDA have recalled two times, and even after re-release has reports on the VAERS website that there is a history of intussception with some individuals and even death.

My eyes got really big reading that and I figured "eh no". Reason 1: He is not around other individuals other than the family (mil, fil, me, dh) and is not in daycare or playgroups or around other babies. Reason 2: Our history of bowel diseases and other issues (chron's, IBS, Gluten sensitivity and Celiac Disease). Reason 3: Not tested enough before release to the public, especially for the age group reccommended -- and no long term studies.


We were also reccommended the Pneumococcal vaccine for this last visit, and I found from the package insert and CDC, this one is not reccommended for children under the age of 2. I just asked them to ask us again around age 2, when I have had a chance to study it more and weigh the options. (I think we likely will not do this one)

Hepatitis B -- we decided when he plays sports or works with large farm animals (if he does) we will go for this, otherwise we'll wait until he heads off to university or medical school (;)). There's no need to have this one if a child is not in day/afterschool care or in a medical/3rd world setting....

Polio -- we asked that we hang off on this one until 1 year. We felt it important.
The Dr said it is really an illness that one doesn't need to be vaccinated against unless you are travelling to 3rd world countries where it is not completely irradicated. If one were going to travel to the US (to visit my family) or to Canada and back to Germany, there's no need to really have it. And, for now, it is only in the combination vaccines.

We decided on no Pertussis, regardless. We're considering the Diptheria and Tetanus together... it seems they don't do them seperate here. In that case, I had found that in Japan the population had great results in the 70s, 80s and 90s giving this one (DTaP) to children over 2 years of age, and the risks to the group and side effects were next to nil. So, we asked if we can hold that one off until 2.

Next year we will discuss MMR, which we will likely delay until he is 2 or 3 if we can. 3 is when he'll likely start Kindergarten here (that's when Kindergarten starts), so he will need to either have vaccines or a sign off for none altogether by that time.
We figured that Measles and Mumps were pretty important things to have, but Rubella is a fetal-cell harvested vaccine and I cannot justify that one since I am not pro-choice. The whole way that one came about was just totally wrong imho, and I can't rightfully bring that to my son and say "well, you needed the vaccine honey, I had to".

Varicella is a no. The reason behind that is that it offers little to no immunity, and children are catching the chickenpox at a time that it is really damaging to their systems (around puberty or after it) due to being "immune" for a while, and the immunity running out. you have to get several boosters for this one.
Personally, it's best to catch the chickenpox young, than when you are older.

Meningitis, I am waiting until he's at an older age where he is at more risk. (College age, that is -- if he goes off to college rather than doing as my DH did) By then I think enough research should have been done. We'll see on that one.

We plan on eliminating or severely spacing out any combinations, since every child in my extended and immediate family have had horrid reactions (and no, I doubt they were reported to VAERS) to the vaccines. Three of the boys of the family have changed after the MMR and DTaP vaccines (brother, and two cousins)... so I have that to consider too.

There's a lot of chemicals and allergens in certain vaccines, so imho, I feel it's up to me as the nursing mother to investigate what is in it, how much, and then weigh whether the good outweighs the bad of the vaccine.... and if there are food allergens in them, to avoid those allergens in my diet while breastfeeding, or if I am feeding solids to avoid them in his diet, so he doesn't go into either refractory sprue or develop additional food allergies. It's bad enough I can't have onion or garlic (I used to be able to have dried) in my diet. I can't imagine removing nuts entirely, since that's one of the only ways I can get my omega-3s...
 
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Green Orchid

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I don't know if the following is considered debate, so please let me know if I should remove it!

Ya know I asked my mid-wife about vaccinations and here in FL. it's gainst the law to not get certain ones. Kids have to be vaccinated before going to school. At birth she will have to get a Hep B shot.

I would really urge you not to accept the Hep B vaccine at birth. :) Like SOTFB said, Heb B is contracted through high risk behavior, which begins much later in life. Dr.Sears recommends giving it around 12 years old. Giving Hep B at birth is a big marketing push unfortunately. :sigh: Plus, I think it's a major overload on the system of a newborn.
 
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llghoney

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Why in the world when I told the mid-wife can I refuse the shots she said yeah you can but eventually if you don't get them they will hunt you down?? Hmmm this is soo confusing. And it seems that it IS a law to get the Heb B shot here. Gaw now I'm freaking out over this.
 
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Hadassah

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not so fast... http://www.vaclib.org/exempt/florida.htm


...[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Birth Exemptions:

For those who are planning a hospital birth but want to evade invasive routine post natal procedures such as a Hep B shot, vitamin K injection, newborn screening, or the application of silver nitrate in the newborn's eyes, a very specific birthing plan must be submitted to the hospital in advance of the birth. Hospital staff must be informed, in advance, of your needs, wants and desires where your baby and birthing experience are concerned. The same applies to midwives.

Sample Vaccine Letters From this website... http://www.vaccines.bizland.com/letters.htm [/FONT]


....[FONT=Arial, Helvetica]Fla. Stat. Ann. 29 § 383.14 includes an exemption to newborn screening requirements when parents or guardians of the child object. The law requires that a written statement of such objection be presented to the physician or other person whose duty it is to administer and report tests and screenings under this section. The law also requires that the department maintain a confidential registry of cases. 383.14
(4) OBJECTIONS OF PARENT OR GUARDIAN .-- The provisions of this section shall not apply when the parent or guardian of the child objects thereto. A written statement of such objection shall be presented to the physician or other person whose duty it is to administer and report tests and screenings under this section.
http://www.flsenate.gov/statutes/in...ute&Search_String=&URL=Ch0383/SEC14.HTM&Title

http://www.ncsl.org/programs/health/screeningprivacy.htm
[/FONT]
 
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