Question for LDS/Mormons

[Wrigley]

I find this entire line of discussion regarding the strictness of the mission rules most odd. A mission is much like the military. Upon entering into service, one voluntarily elects to give up certain rights--with knowledge aforethought. Yes, the rules are very strict, but one enters into the service knowing this fact and accepting the same. Thus, what is the issue here?

The issue is the typical mormon response that
1. Those rules on that site are nothing but lies.
2. Some are lies, some are true, (with the inability to say which are true, which are false.
3. Your answer. Which to put it another way is to say "its no big deal and why do you care?"

We've heard those all here.

And to say this much for you, your answer has been the most honest. Good job.

 

[skylark1]

I find this entire line of discussion regarding the strictness of the mission rules most odd. A mission is much like the military. Upon entering into service, one voluntarily elects to give up certain rights--with knowledge aforethought. Yes, the rules are very strict, but one enters into the service knowing this fact and accepting the same. Thus, what is the issue here?

Hi Ammon,

Welcome back.
It has been a while since I have seen you post.

For me, I guess that I am just curious. Since I already knew that the rules for LDS missionaries were strict, I was a little surprised when a poster claimed that these rules were "nothing but lies." So, if there are lies, then I would think that LDS would want to clear that up. And if there are not lies, then I would hope that LDS would be honest and just say so, and perhaps explain their point of view of why so many rules are needed.

 

[AMMON]

The rules are needed, in part, because 19-21 year-olds tend to have a wild side that is easily exploited by the temptations of the world. The best analogy is that which I gave above, i.e., the mission is like the military. Both organizations have exceedingly strict rules in order that their overall purposes might be achieved. The current rules of both organizations are the product of years of trial and error in which the leaders thereof learned what rules should be in place to ensure that the organizations' objectives are accomplished.

Mission rules exist to ensure that missionary work is done with the greatest efficacy and efficiency, and statistics show that that the current rules have had a direct effect on the success of missionaries, who are seeing conversion rates at nearly unprecedented levels. As to the litany of rules, it is long. I'm not sure what rules have been discussed herein, but I would imagine that if they rules discussed seem almost oppresively strict, they are probably right on target. But, again, missionaries, just like U.S. Service People, wholly accept this fact of their own free will before putting on the uniform and engaging in the work. I did it; it was brutally difficult, but I'm very glad I did. It taught me discipline, order, and focus. My college GPA skyrocketed after my mission, a fact that I attribute directly to the skills and benefits incurred through the strict adherence to mission rules.

 

[RainMaker]

I find this entire line of discussion regarding the strictness of the mission rules most odd. A mission is much like the military. Upon entering into service, one voluntarily elects to give up certain rights--with knowledge aforethought. Yes, the rules are very strict, but one enters into the service knowing this fact and accepting the same. Thus, what is the issue here?

Ammon,

For those who aren't part of the LDS faith, the rules on the afore mentioned webpage seem strict, and to be quite frank, strange. Becoming a missionary for a Christian church is not similar to joining the military, at least as far as the strictness of the rules is concerned. This is why some here are curious about the rules.

 

[RainMaker]

Wrigley,

I will get a copy of the Mission rules and report back here on how the earlier webpage measures up. I too am curious about the rules, as I have heard varying accounts.

 

[Wrigley]

Wrigley,

I will get a copy of the Mission rules and report back here on how the earlier webpage measures up. I too am curious about the rules, as I have heard varying accounts.

That would be excellent. Thanks in advance.

One would think that there would be an eager attempt to refute that website. I can't understand some mormons here not willing to take the opportunity to set the record straight.

 

[MormonFriend]

I think that it is obvious that the person who wrote the article is no longer LDS. He was honest enough to make it clear that he added his own sarcastic remarks in italics. Whether he thinks it is a game or not should not have any bearing on whether the rules that he listed are true, or false. I realize that it is likely that the rules are not given in the form of "thou shalt not....." I already know that missionaries follow a stringent list of rules governing their behavior. LDS here on this board have stated that these rules are given for a good reason. What specifically is false in the non-italicized portion of his list?

Thanks.

Perhaps others will take interest in itemizing these rules and making the clarifications you ask for. I do not see any purpose for it to be worth the time spent. (unless you can give me a specific reason for your curiosity, your questions are important to me.) Ammon pretty well summerized the issue.

Obviously the work is progressive at a rate that is to be admired, so maybe the rules should be taken seriously by other denominations.

 

[AMMON]

I have now read the rules on the website referenced above, and other than a few exaggerated and sarcastic clauses, that list is pretty close to accurate. And missionaries are supposed to study and understand that list BEFORE accepting their assignment. Thus, I see no issue here.

 

[skylark1]

I have now read the rules on the website referenced above, and other than a few exaggerated and sarcastic clauses, that list is pretty close to accurate. And missionaries are supposed to study and understand that list BEFORE accepting their assignment. Thus, I see no issue here.

Ammon,

Thank you for honestly responding to the question.

Could you explain why missionaries are required to always be with their companion, even on their preparation day, even to the extent of it being a rule that they must sleep in the same room, get up, and go to bed, at the same time as each other?

Thanks.

 

[Fit4Christ]

In Matthew 6:6, doesn't it teach us to pray alone? Why can't a missionary be alone to pray?

 

[Frankie]

You lost the point of this portion of the discussion. Faith is a principle, no matter to what it is applied, the principle is constant. Faith is in degrees, from a grain of mustard seed to a saving faith, depending on how we master it.

You have faith that the alarm clock will awaken you tomorrow morning, so you make the effort to set it.

You have faith that by denying yourself of unnecessary foods and proper exercise, you can loose weight. And you do so, ... that is if your desires are truley to loose the weight. (Therein lies the test of what is really most important to us.)

You have faith that you can overcome the world by believing in Christ. And you do so, .... that is if your belief and desires are truley for Christ. "Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?" (1 John5:5) (Therein lies the test of what is really most important to us.)


Faith is the moving and motivating power, responsible for everything accomplished. Faith is a gift from God. It dies without our works. Faith grows stronger, even to a "saving faith," when we exercise our faith with obedience to God's word. Salvation is by grace through faith. Is that faith a dead faith or a faith that is well exercised and strong?

I disagree that faith is "in degrees". One either has faith, or they don't. To what extent we follow God's will for our lives can be done in degrees but saving faith is not something that you work towards in degrees. You have it or you don't. It's that simple.

Frankie

 

[Fit4Christ]

Oh, and 1 other question, Ammon (or anyone else): these companions - are they someone assigned from the local area ward or are they also from another part of the state/country/world? To clarify, if the missionary is from Maine, but is serving in Mesa, AZ, is his/her companion from Mesa area or somewhere else?

Just curious, thanks!

 

[Frankie]

Nothing but lies..

Krystina, are you saying they are all lies? I think there are some RM's that would disagree with you.

Frankie

 

[MormonFriend]

Krystina, are you saying they are all lies? I think there are some RM's that would disagree with you.

Frankie

It is common to portray a lie by telling truth. An example would be: "The Russian newspaper TASS reported on the Olympics, stating that the Americans finished an important race second to last, and the Russians finished that race in second place." What they failed to report is that there were only two competing in that race.

I came to the conclusion that this articles was all lies too, and I only read the first paragraph. That is all I needed to discern the intent of this writer.

 

[skylark1]

I came to the conclusion that this articles was all lies too, and I only read the first paragraph. That is all I needed to discern the intent of this writer.

Funny. Ammon actually bothered to read the list and concluded that the list was essentially accurate.

I have now read the rules on the website referenced above, and other than a few exaggerated and sarcastic clauses, that list is pretty close to accurate. And missionaries are supposed to study and understand that list BEFORE accepting their assignment. Thus, I see no issue here.

 

[Wrigley]

Funny. Ammon actually bothered to read the list and concluded that the list was essentially accurate.

I hoped someone else caught that.

 

[AMMON]

Ammon,

Thank you for honestly responding to the question.

Could you explain why missionaries are required to always be with their companion, even on their preparation day, even to the extent of it being a rule that they must sleep in the same room, get up, and go to bed, at the same time as each other?

Thanks.

Unfortunatley, there are some missionaries who hit moments of weakness and succumb to temptations--and as a missionary there are MANY temptations. When I was on my mission, a number of people informed me that Penthouse Magazine had recently conducted a national poll among various college women as to the sexiest group of men in America. Mormon missionaries were no. 2 on the list. And, based on the number of times I was hit on as a missionary, I believe it. I would get calls from girls at my apartment--and they weren't wanting to discuss the gospel. At 19-21 years of age, one must be exceptionally strong to reject this attention.

Thus, missionaries must stay with their companions to avoid getting into trouble. Almost all sexual sin that occurs in the mission field occurs when a missionary leaves his companion, and it is often for only a small amount of time. For example, in our mission two missionaries were eating dinner at someone's home. One of the missionaries went to use the bathroom when one of the attractive, older, teenage daughters in the home jumped in the bathroom just before he closed the door and began to get all over the poor guy. He was weak and did some things he ought not have done. It happens that fast.

Some missionaries get hit on repeatedly by some very attractive and persistent women. If such missionary's companion goes to bed, leaving that missionary alone that missionary might take off in a moment of weakness to met up with one of these women, and these women do not want to just hold hands and gaze into the missionary's eyes. A few sororities in Florida have been known to require their pledges to sleep with a Mormon missionary to gain admission. It's a real problem, all over the World. Thus, the rule is very strict for a very good reason.

 

[skylark1]

Unfortunatley, there are some missionaries who hit moments of weakness and succumb to temptations--and as a missionary there are MANY temptations. When I was on my mission, a number of people informed me that Penthouse Magazine had recently conducted a national poll among various college women as to the sexiest group of men in America. Mormon missionaries were no. 2 on the list. And, based on the number of times I was hit on as a missionary, I believe it. I would get calls from girls at my apartment--and they weren't wanting to discuss the gospel. At 19-21 years of age, one must be exceptionally strong to reject this attention.

Thus, missionaries must stay with their companions to avoid getting into trouble. Almost all sexual sin that occurs in the mission field occurs when a missionary leaves his companion, and it is often for only a small amount of time. For example, in our mission two missionaries were eating dinner at someone's home. One of the missionaries went to use the bathroom when one of the attractive, older, teenage daughters in the home jumped in the bathroom just before he closed the door and began to get all over the poor guy. He was weak and did some things he ought not have done. It happens that fast.

Some missionaries get hit on repeatedly by some very attractive and persistent women. If such missionary's companion goes to bed, leaving that missionary alone that missionary might take off in a moment of weakness to met up with one of these women, and these women do not want to just hold hands and gaze into the missionary's eyes. A few sororities in Florida have been known to require their pledges to sleep with a Mormon missionary to gain admission. It's a real problem, all over the World. Thus, the rule is very strict for a very good reason.

Ammon,

I appreciate you responding to my question. I don't doubt that you were told that Mormon missionaries were voted by college women number 2 on a list of sexiest men in America, but I find this poll very hard to believe. Do you think that it is possible that this could be a story that spread to missionaries as a warning to help them to be on guard against getting involved with someone?

I also find it very hard to believe that a sorority would require their pledges to sleep with a Mormon missionary to gain admission. If this story is true, and I doubt that it is, what does this say about the women who are already admitted to the sorority? That they all slept with Mormon missionaries? It wouldn't reflect very well on the missionaries either, if the story was true. Again Ammon, I do not doubt that you were told this, I just doubt that the story is authentic.

 

[MormonFriend]

I disagree that faith is "in degrees". One either has faith, or they don't. To what extent we follow God's will for our lives can be done in degrees but saving faith is not something that you work towards in degrees. You have it or you don't. It's that simple.

Frankie

Please explain:
19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting. (New Testament | Matthew 17:19 - 21)

 

[MormonFriend]

Funny. Ammon actually bothered to read the list and concluded that the list was essentially accurate.

Please see my post #127. Did you have a specific reason for your request? I am a slow reader, and my writing is not much faster. I try to focus attention to topics that have purpose, and/or which I may be better capable to respond to. I have great confidence that Ammon has assessed the article well. I still say that the first paragraph in that article reveals the worth of the whole of it.

Ammon, was it worthwhile?