Question for LDS/Mormons

Wrigley said:

Hmmm. Let's think about that one. I seem to recall a verse from one of your works that ends with "....after all that we do." If that doesn't explicitly say that you need more than grace to save you, I'm not sure how it can be said clearer.

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I seem to recall a verse that you should believe that says "by grace through faith." If that doesn't explicitly say that you need more than grace to save you, I too am not sure how it can be said clearer.

fatboys said:

FB: I can't remember what the stats are for Utah as in the ranking, but Utah is about 60% LDS now. And for those LDS who get married outside of the Temple, it is about the National average. For those married in the Temple it is about 12%. I could be wrong, my memory is a bit hazy on this.

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I think that an estimation of 60% LDS for the population of Utah seems like a very low estimate. Could that number have instead been for SLC?

I think that you are trying to make a point that you believe that the divorce rate for LDS married in an LDS temple is lower than it is for non-LDS. Even though no clear and reliable statistics have been offered, wouldn't it make more sense to compare the number to Christians, rather than the general population? And perhaps against Christians who are actively involved in their churches?

fatboys said:

The Lord through a prophet said that every worthy young male should go on a mission. If they were not worthy, to make themselves worthy. Of course this was already stated in the D&C, but I believe every most prophets have reiterated it as a call to server the Lord. So I don't think it would be necessary to place it into the canon. It is already there, and Prophets just remind us.

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I asked this in an earlier post:

Is this commanded in the D&C, or not?

skylark1 said:

I asked this in an earlier post:

Where in the D&C is it commanded that every "worthy" LDS male serve a mission?

I am curious because some LDS that I know seemed to imply that while they think that it is good to serve a mission, that it is a personal choice, not a commandment.​

Is this commanded in the D&C, or not?

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FB: That is a good question and you caught me. My personal opinion is that it is a commandment because a prophet of God said it to be so, which affirmed my own personal belief. But in reality it was a request in the stongest terms of a request. I have two of my own sons which will not be going on a mission. I had to struggle with this internally because I believe so strongly about it. My dear wife has had to calm my troubled heart, and what a blessing she has been in my life. She has helped me see that not all men are going to go on missions. In order to go one has to have a desire. In Sec. four of the D&C, this is the stated purpose. My zeal from receiving a witness from God that a restoration took place, and that so many more blessings are now available to man to make this journey in life so more enjoyable, that I want my own sons to realize the same happiness I have. When my second oldest son came to me and said he did not want to go on a mission, I was so let down. I did not show this to him, but he knew. I told him that he was not going to hell because of it, and that a person can be good and not go on a mission. I told him I respected his descion, and that was the end of it. Little did I know the true reasons for his not wanting to go. I will not go into it but to say that his reasons were justified. I did not find out for several years after. It had nothing to do with the church or him not being worthy. That is all I can say.

I forgot to say that Sec four teaches that if ye have desire to serve God then you are called to the work. In other words the desire has to be there. There are many reasons why a desire would not be there. For example, even if my father had been active in the church and believed to the utmost, he would have never went on a mission. He suffered from agorrophobia, or fear of crowds. I remember when he went to baptisms and blessings, he would literally be soaking wet from sweat. My brother who went on am mission late, 21, suffered from it also. Not to the extreme my father did, but he has served on the High council and in three bishoprics and he says when he ash to conduct, he is wringing wet when it is over. My Father would have never stood up in front of people.




So in the long run, the Prophet Spencer W. Kimball(my cousin and claim to fame) said that every worthy male should go. It was not a revelation, but a request. A reminder that if one believes the church to be a restoration of Christ's ancient church, that there are billions of people who are waiting to hear about it. Many have been waiting for so long to learn of it.

Krystina661 quote:

Wrong. LDS believe ALL will have salvation through the Grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

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Yes, including no-believers, thiefs, idolaters, fornicaters, liars, and those who love a lie. All those receive a kingdom, except those who commit the unforgiveable sin. Of course, they will have to go to spirit prison and pay off their debt, and then they get the "get out of jail free card".




Not very biblical is it?





I figured my debt out once. It came to.......theres not enough gold in the world to cover it. But, by making 17 cents an hour, at an interest rate of 153%, compounded semi-secondly......someday.......maybe someday......if I work hard enough....


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daneel said:

Yes, including no-believers, thiefs, idolaters, fornicaters, liars, and those who love a lie. All those receive a kingdom, except those who commit the unforgiveable sin. Of course, they will have to go to spirit prison and pay off their debt, and then they get the "get out of jail free card".




Not very biblical is it?





I figured my debt out once. It came to.......theres not enough gold in the world to cover it. But, by making 17 cents an hour, at an interest rate of 153%, compounded semi-secondly......someday.......maybe someday......if I work hard enough....


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FB: I am curious as to why you would believe that those who are wicked will get a out of jail pass. If they do not accept the gospel of Christ, they have to pay the debt themselves. That means loss of eternal life.

skylark1 said:

I think that an estimation of 60% LDS for the population of Utah seems like a very low estimate. Could that number have instead been for SLC?

I think that you are trying to make a point that you believe that the divorce rate for LDS married in an LDS temple is lower than it is for non-LDS. Even though no clear and reliable statistics have been offered, wouldn't it make more sense to compare the number to Christians, rather than the general population? And perhaps against Christians who are actively involved in their churches?

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FB: Well yes and no. That would be a interesting study. I think the percentage of LDS in Utah was right at 70% a few years ago, but I think it declines as and I read where it was in the 60% range. I do think your right about SLC, it is at 60% or even lower. But out in these little communities we are getting more non LDS. I mean in my little town it has always been about 99%. But it is about 90%. I jokingly say that we either baptise them or drive them out.

Here is another funny you may enjoy. My daughter is engaged to a liberal Democrate. He asked once, in a chiding way if there were any democrates where I live. I said a couple, but they are still hunting for them in the mountains. He took me serious for about two seconds.

MormonFriend said:

I seem to recall a verse that you should believe that says "by grace through faith." If that doesn't explicitly say that you need more than grace to save you, I too am not sure how it can be said clearer.

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If faith were a work, then you would have a point. But since faith is not a work, you have no point.

Wrigley said:

If faith were a work, then you would have a point. But since faith is not a work, you have no point.

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Have to disagree with you there. Faith is definitely a work. Why do you set the alarm clock in the morning? a) because you have faith there will be a tomorrow; b) because you have faith that you have a job to go to tomorrow; c) because you have faith that if you don't go to work on time tomorrow, you may lose your job; d) because you have faith that if you lose your job, you could lose your house, etc...etc....etc.

You could argue that you "know" there will be a tomorrow based on past experience (dawns always follows night), but there is the possibility it might not, therefore you act (work) in Faith.

My religion is the same way. I pray to Heavenly Father because I have faith he is there to answer my prayer. I try not to yeild to temptations because I have faith God will reward me and I have faith that my trangressions are displeasing to him, but through the act of repentance, I have faith that God will forgive me and I can continue to enjoy a close relationship with Him.

Trin

PS - in regards to the non-LDS not wanting to live with LDS comments - Everyone needs to learn to take a joke!! Non-LDS seem so eager to jump all over LDS comments even if they are made in jest.

trinity2359 said:

Have to disagree with you there. Faith is definitely a work. Why do you set the alarm clock in the morning? a) because you have faith there will be a tomorrow; b) because you have faith that you have a job to go to tomorrow; c) because you have faith that if you don't go to work on time tomorrow, you may lose your job; d) because you have faith that if you lose your job, you could lose your house, etc...etc....etc.

You could argue that you "know" there will be a tomorrow based on past experience (dawns always follows night), but there is the possibility it might not, therefore you act (work) in Faith.

My religion is the same way. I pray to Heavenly Father because I have faith he is there to answer my prayer. I try not to yeild to temptations because I have faith God will reward me and I have faith that my trangressions are displeasing to him, but through the act of repentance, I have faith that God will forgive me and I can continue to enjoy a close relationship with Him.

Trin

PS - in regards to the non-LDS not wanting to live with LDS comments - Everyone needs to learn to take a joke!! Non-LDS seem so eager to jump all over LDS comments even if they are made in jest.

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Wrong.

trinity2359 said:

Have to disagree with you there. Faith is definitely a work. Why do you set the alarm clock in the morning? a) because you have faith there will be a tomorrow; b) because you have faith that you have a job to go to tomorrow; c) because you have faith that if you don't go to work on time tomorrow, you may lose your job; d) because you have faith that if you lose your job, you could lose your house, etc...etc....etc.

You could argue that you "know" there will be a tomorrow based on past experience (dawns always follows night), but there is the possibility it might not, therefore you act (work) in Faith.

My religion is the same way. I pray to Heavenly Father because I have faith he is there to answer my prayer. I try not to yeild to temptations because I have faith God will reward me and I have faith that my trangressions are displeasing to him, but through the act of repentance, I have faith that God will forgive me and I can continue to enjoy a close relationship with Him.

Trin

PS - in regards to the non-LDS not wanting to live with LDS comments - Everyone needs to learn to take a joke!! Non-LDS seem so eager to jump all over LDS comments even if they are made in jest.

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Right.

trinity2359 said:

Have to disagree with you there. Faith is definitely a work. Why do you set the alarm clock in the morning? a) because you have faith there will be a tomorrow; b) because you have faith that you have a job to go to tomorrow; c) because you have faith that if you don't go to work on time tomorrow, you may lose your job; d) because you have faith that if you lose your job, you could lose your house, etc...etc....etc.

You could argue that you "know" there will be a tomorrow based on past experience (dawns always follows night), but there is the possibility it might not, therefore you act (work) in Faith.

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"Trin,"

I don't think that anyone will argue will you that when we have faith in something, we will act on it. I have heard faith in God defined as trusting God.

My religion is the same way. I pray to Heavenly Father because I have faith he is there to answer my prayer. I try not to yeild to temptations because I have faith God will reward me and I have faith that my trangressions are displeasing to him, but through the act of repentance, I have faith that God will forgive me and I can continue to enjoy a close relationship with Him.

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When I pray, I also have faith that God will answer my prayers according to His will. The reason that I try not to yield to temptations is NOT based on anticipation of a reward. It is because the Holy Spirit convicts me, and because I want to please God. It isn't based on faith that I will obtain a reward. It is based on conviction.

Wrong! Right! Why don't you guys look at the statement again. Knowing tomorrow would come is faith there is no work involved in it. However setting the clock is the work that justifies the faith that tomorrow would come. Faith without the work is dead period

FB quote:

FB: I am curious as to why you would believe that those who are wicked will get a out of jail pass. If they do not accept the gospel of Christ, they have to pay the debt themselves. That means loss of eternal life.

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No, that is your terrestrial (?) or telestial (?) world. Whose glory is like the moon.(?) Sorry, am at work and don't have my notes with. Whichever, it is the lowest kingdom according to your (lds) beliefs, as explained at lightplanet.com. Eternal life is there.

supposedly.


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mawuvi said:

Wrong! Right! Why don't you guys look at the statement again. Knowing tomorrow would come is faith there is no work involved in it. However setting the clock is the work that justifies the faith that tomorrow would come. Faith without the work is dead period

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Agreed! I have faith tomorrow will come because God created night and day and until He says otherwise, it will happen. No work involved there! I set my alarm clock because I don't have faith that I will wake up in time for work...

Fit4Christ said:

Agreed! I have faith tomorrow will come because God created night and day and until He says otherwise, it will happen. No work involved there! I set my alarm clock because I don't have faith that I will wake up in time for work...

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FB: You have faith that your clock will work and wake you up. You don't know for sure, but the odds are in your favor that it will work. Faith is a work. In order to have faith you have to desire it. From that it must grow into a faith. Nephi in the Book of Mormon describes it well. Faith is like a seed.

daneel said:

No, that is your terrestrial (?) or telestial (?) world. Whose glory is like the moon.(?) Sorry, am at work and don't have my notes with. Whichever, it is the lowest kingdom according to your (lds) beliefs, as explained at lightplanet.com. Eternal life is there.

supposedly.


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FB: In your belief when someone is sent to hell, do the live for eternity?

FB: In your belief when someone is sent to hell, do the live for eternity?

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They would exist eternally in the Lake of Fire.
I would'nt call that living.

Of course, today, if Jesus was'nt in my life, I would'nt call that living either.

Rev 20:12 And I saw the dead, the small and the great, stand before God. And books were opened, and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life. And the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
Rev 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead in it. And death and hell delivered up the dead in them. And each one of them was judged according to their works.
Rev 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the Lake of Fire. This is the second death.
Rev 20:15 And if anyone was not found having been written in the Book of Life, he was cast into the Lake of Fire.


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fatboys said:

FB: You have faith that your clock will work and wake you up. You don't know for sure, but the odds are in your favor that it will work. Faith is a work. In order to have faith you have to desire it. From that it must grow into a faith. Nephi in the Book of Mormon describes it well. Faith is like a seed.

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How is having faith that my alarm clock will function correctly and be able to wake me up a work? Faith in of itself is not an action; it's an accumulation of actions that leads me to believe in something. Because that annoying little buzzer goes off each time I set my alarm, and I wake up because of it, I have faith it will wake me up again. What you are describing is growing your faith. If you really want to know about growing faith, try Matthew 13 in the Bible.

fatboys said:

FB: You have faith that your clock will work and wake you up. You don't know for sure, but the odds are in your favor that it will work. Faith is a work. In order to have faith you have to desire it. From that it must grow into a faith. Nephi in the Book of Mormon describes it well. Faith is like a seed.

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Faith=seed, a seed is a noun. It is not work, PLANTING a seed is work.