Question for LDS/Mormons

[calgal]

I wasn't sloppy, I was saying that most of the Mormons I know are this way and that happens to be true. I never quoted statistics or anything, and it has not only been in my area, I have lived in NYC, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and have been to Utah numerous times. So, FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, and who I have known, most the families are very well off.

Three words Los Angeles Stake. The LA 1st ward is in Inglewood. There are also quite a few stakes in So Cal which service the poorer neighborhoods besides LA Stake. San Diego Sweetwater; Santa Ana; Long Beach and Hemet come to mind immediately. If you do not see poor folks, I would guess you never left the Benches or Avenues (Utah) or the West Side (LA). Many families I knew were lower middle class to middle class (and the latter were living on credit). Does that mean ALL mormons are poor folks? Not even close.

 

[Rescued One]

President Young only said he wanted every man in the land older than 18 to take a wife. It was Elder George Q. Cannon, an LDS Church apostle, who said in 1878: "I am firmly of the opinion that a large number of unmarried men, over the age of 24 years, is a dangerous element in any community."

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/1,1249,510041976,00.html

 

[Frankie]

I wasn't sloppy, I was saying that most of the Mormons I know are this way and that happens to be true. I never quoted statistics or anything, and it has not only been in my area, I have lived in NYC, Los Angeles, Las Vegas, and have been to Utah numerous times. So, FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, and who I have known, most the families are very well off.

krystina, where exactly do you live? I only ask because every city and state has more than it's fare share of poor and unwealthy people even in Utah, which is promantly LDS. What about all the small towns that are full of lds people that are not financially well off? What about all the lds converts in Southern America that are very poor and those in Africa?

In the beginning, you did not state it as your observation but rather as "how it is" for "most" lds.

I have lived in many different states and have also known lds in all of those states and I think your statement that most lds men have college educations and are financially well off in providing for their family, is wrong.

I think it is fair to say that lds men, just like any other group of people have some that are well off financially and have college educations and there are many that don't. I think it is rediculous to say that most lds men have college educations and can financially provide well for their families. I also know for a fact that many lds women have to work to help support their families so they can make ends meet.

I would be willing to bet a years income that there are a whole lot more "hard working blue collers" in the lds church that just get by then there are financially well to do people. Being lds does not mean that you are going to be better off than other people, nor does it mean a college education and financial security.

Also, not drinking coffee, tea, alcohol, smoking cigarettes, etc. does not make for a better financial lifestyle. To believe that would be to believe that the most wealthy of people don't drink, smoke or have a morning cup of coffee or any of the other things you listed.

 

[MormonFriend]

....And, I am sure you would be very upset if I made the generalization that mormons nationwide need some type of anti depressant because of the high level of those pills perscribed in Utah.

That is a good point!

Have you seen that cute Christian comment on a bumper sticker that reads the Lord's words: "I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it!" ?

Are you familiar with that major condition of salvation which reads: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved?
(New Testament | Matthew10:22)

How about being stretched to your capacity with temptation?
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able;.....(New Testament | 1 Corinthians10:13)

Living the life that God has designed for us is no bowl of cherries. It can get quite hot!
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: ...

(Old Testament | Zechariah13:9)


Are there any other clues as to what can cause a great deal of stress, even depression in the life of a person living the fullnes of a Christian life?

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

(New Testament | Revelation2:9 - 10)


There is alot of pressure in being a Mormon. I suppose that if our faith were stronger, we might handle the stress without depression, but how does one develop faith? By overcoming the trials that God sends our way.


My people must be tried in all things, that they may be prepared to receive the glory that I have for them, even the glory of Zion; and he that will not bear chastisement is not worthy of my kingdom.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section136:31)



He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.



(New Testament | Revelation2:11)



What about the lower divorce rate in Utah! Do you think that LDS people have perfect marriages? Or when troubles arise, do they stick it out instead of bailing out?

I do not prescribe anti-depressants as a solution, but you are correct that it does indicate something is different among the LDS.

 

[skylark1]

What about the lower divorce rate in Utah! Do you think that LDS people have perfect marriages? Or when troubles arise, do they stick it out instead of bailing out?

MF,

Do you have a reference that shows that the divorce rate is lower in Utah? The only statistics that I have read about this are from 1998. Massachusetts was the lowest, while Nevada came in at number 50. Utah ranked near the middle, at number 27.
http://www.divorcemagazine.com/statistics/statsUS2.shtml

 

[Rescued One]

What about the lower divorce rate in Utah! Do you think that LDS people have perfect marriages? Or when troubles arise, do they stick it out instead of bailing out?

Deseret News, 4 June 2001
By: Brent Barlow
The fact is that the divorce rate in Utah has usually been closer to "average" than "above average."
In addition, divorce rates are lowest in the eastern United States and highest in the Western states.

 

[Krystina661]

I just love how some of the people on here take one sentence and run with it, ignoring the rest of the posts.. Amazing.. This is why I never try to get into debates around here..

 

[fatboys]

MF,

Do you have a reference that shows that the divorce rate is lower in Utah? The only statistics that I have read about this are from 1998. Massachusetts was the lowest, while Nevada came in at number 50. Utah ranked near the middle, at number 27.
http://www.divorcemagazine.com/statistics/statsUS2.shtml

FB: I can't remember what the stats are for Utah as in the ranking, but Utah is about 60% LDS now. And for those LDS who get married outside of the Temple, it is about the National average. For those married in the Temple it is about 12%. I could be wrong, my memory is a bit hazy on this.

 

[Rescued One]

I just love how some of the people on here take one sentence and run with it, ignoring the rest of the posts.. Amazing.. This is why I never try to get into debates around here..

Ah, but this place is for the purpose of discussion and debate. How did you find it?

 

[Rescued One]

An Associated Press article (27 December 1999,Salt Lake Tribune) reported that Utah ranks last among all states in the proportion of young men and women signing up for military services (according to military figures).

 

[Wrigley]

That is a good point!

Have you seen that cute Christian comment on a bumper sticker that reads the Lord's words: "I never said it would be easy, I only said it would be worth it!" ?

Are you familiar with that major condition of salvation which reads: And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved?
(New Testament | Matthew10:22)

How about being stretched to your capacity with temptation?
There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able;.....(New Testament | 1 Corinthians10:13)

Living the life that God has designed for us is no bowl of cherries. It can get quite hot!
And I will bring the third part through the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried: ...

(Old Testament | Zechariah13:9)


Are there any other clues as to what can cause a great deal of stress, even depression in the life of a person living the fullnes of a Christian life?

I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

(New Testament | Revelation2:9 - 10)


There is alot of pressure in being a Mormon. I suppose that if our faith were stronger, we might handle the stress without depression, but how does one develop faith? By overcoming the trials that God sends our way.


My people must be tried in all things, that they may be prepared to receive the glory that I have for them, even the glory of Zion; and he that will not bear chastisement is not worthy of my kingdom.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section136:31)



He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.



(New Testament | Revelation2:11)



What about the lower divorce rate in Utah! Do you think that LDS people have perfect marriages? Or when troubles arise, do they stick it out instead of bailing out?

I do not prescribe anti-depressants as a solution, but you are correct that it does indicate something is different among the LDS.

What's your point? Life is tougher as a mormon?

 

[skylark1]

I just love how some of the people on here take one sentence and run with it, ignoring the rest of the posts.. Amazing.. This is why I never try to get into debates around here..

Kristina,

Sometimes I repond to an entire post, and sometimes there is only a small portion that I want to respond to. I think that happens to all of us. Since I live in Utah, I was curious about the statistics. I really don't think that is so "amazing."

 

[MormonFriend]

I just love how some of the people on here take one sentence and run with it, ignoring the rest of the posts.. Amazing.. This is why I never try to get into debates around here..

Ah, but this place is for the purpose of discussion and debate. How did you find it?

You missed her point Gwit. I believe she was referring to my post about Wrigly's remark of anti-depressants. I made a point as to why it might be as he suggested. Then one sentance was commented on that had nothing to do with my point.
Skylark's comment was appropriate, as she was correct. And she was not the person to whom my comments were addressed. So I see her as just making an observation. But in so many other posts, this same tactic is repeated, where avoidance is applied by going off on a tangent. Especially in Roman's thread, "In the Beginning."

Krystina is correct that debate and discussion is not pleasant when this happens.

 

[MormonFriend]

MF,

Do you have a reference that shows that the divorce rate is lower in Utah? The only statistics that I have read about this are from 1998. Massachusetts was the lowest, while Nevada came in at number 50. Utah ranked near the middle, at number 27.
http://www.divorcemagazine.com/statistics/statsUS2.shtml

I stand corrected. (Although I am sitting at the moment.) I was referring to Temple Marriage to apply my point. Speaking of which, I need to tell Wrigly just what my point was. I thought it was obvious.

 

[MormonFriend]

What's your point? Life is tougher as a mormon?

My point was that life is, and was meant to be tougher for the persons who live and grow in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Although another potential crossed my mind about the higher use of anti-depressants in Utah. Maybe it is the non-LDS population that is depressed living with all them Mormons!

 

[Wrigley]

My point was that life is, and was meant to be tougher for the persons who live and grow in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Although another potential crossed my mind about the higher use of anti-depressants in Utah. Maybe it is the non-LDS population that is depressed living with all them Mormons!

Its depressing living among mormons? Here I thought you guys are all wonderful people and neighbors? Are you implying that you guys don't treat non-mormons the same way your treat mormons? That how you treat non-mormons would lead those people to need anti-depressants?

(But really, since the population of SLC is mostly mormon, and there is a high level of anti-depressants used there, it stands to reason that a lot of mormons are using anti-depressants.)

 

[Wrigley]

My point was that life is, and was meant to be tougher for the persons who live and grow in the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Although another potential crossed my mind about the higher use of anti-depressants in Utah. Maybe it is the non-LDS population that is depressed living with all them Mormons!

Makes sense that you would believe that, as your church requires more for salvation than just the Grace of Jesus Christ.

 

[Krystina661]

Makes sense that you would believe that, as your church requires more for salvation than just the Grace of Jesus Christ.

Wrong. LDS believe ALL will have salvation through the Grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

 

[Wrigley]

Wrong. LDS believe ALL will have salvation through the Grace of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

Hmmm. Let's think about that one. I seem to recall a verse from one of your works that ends with "....after all that we do." If that doesn't explicitly say that you need more than grace to save you, I'm not sure how it can be said clearer.

And to take it a step further. I know you mormons are basically univeralist salvation believers. So when you say that ALL will be saved, you are technically correct. But in order to finish the though of mormon salvation, the fact that there are 3 differnet levels of heaven that people can be saved into and what does ultimate salvation entail, you need your works to help.

I, as a Christian, will not get to the highest level of heaven in your construct. The best I can hope for is the second level, but more than likely, since I totally reject the gospel according to smith, I'll be in the lowest heaven.

 

[MormonFriend]

My point was that life is, and was meant to be tougher for the persons who live and grow in the gospel of Jesus Christ

Makes sense that you would believe that, as your church requires more for salvation than just the Grace of Jesus Christ.

And the real reasons that I posted, which are scripture and that you supposedly believe, what doesn't make sense to you that I would believe that "...life is, and was meant to be tougher for the persons who live and grow in the gospel of Jesus Christ."?

Another instance of Krystina's observation that "I just love how some of the people on here take one sentence and run with it, ignoring the rest of the posts.. Amazing.."