Question for LDS/Mormons

[Doc T]

I know what your views are.

MF, I believe the word they use for those views is "distorted".


Doc

~

 

[Frankie]

FB: Ask for it

If a missionary asks for their passport, will they right away hand it over to him, or will they stall on it?

 

[Frankie]

FB: Frankie most mail is delivered directly through through the mail service. There are places where it is sent by pouch because of theft. My Son went to Argentina, and we never sent it directly to him if there was something of value in it, or it had to get to him. If he needed socks, we would send one sock at a time, or one shoe at a time. If we sent it pouch, it took to long to get to him at times. But we sent both ways. The church does not go through a persons mail. It is false, got it?

I just find it hard to believe that so many different people would claim otherwise. Are you saying that everyone who says their mail was gone through, before they recieved it, is lying?

Frankie

 

[Frankie]

I have heard that Mormon missionaries have been threatened to be sent home for things such as becoming attacted to a young lady or for kissing or holding hands with a lady they have fallen in love with on their mission. I have also been told that if this happens, they transfer the boy missionary to another "zone" . This seems more than a little odd to me. How does kissing, holding hands with, or falling in love with a person while you are on a mission distrupt the work of the holy spirit to bring people to Jesus? Why do the lds consider this a sin that someone could be sent home for?

 

[Wrigley]

If a missionary asks for their passport, will they right away hand it over to him, or will they stall on it?

I still can't get over the fact that no mormon has refuted that the passports are indeed taken from the mishies.

 

[MormonFriend]

I still can't get over the fact that no mormon has refuted that the passports are indeed taken from the mishies.

There is nothing to "get over". Mine was intrusted to the mission office in Argentina 30 years ago. It was mission policy. I had no problem with that. I committed myself to the Lord for 2 years. I knew that the Mission Pres. was called by the Lord. I had no use for it during that time. I did not feel "captive" at all. I never heard another missionary complain about that policy.

I attribute that to the high success rate of the Church's growth. A very high majority of its very young missionaries are devoted to serve and keep the mission rules, which rules serve to make the mission most effecient.

 

[MormonFriend]

I have heard that Mormon missionaries have been threatened to be sent home for things such as becoming attacted to a young lady or for kissing or holding hands with a lady they have fallen in love with on their mission. I have also been told that if this happens, they transfer the boy missionary to another "zone" . This seems more than a little odd to me. How does kissing, holding hands with, or falling in love with a person while you are on a mission distrupt the work of the holy spirit to bring people to Jesus? Why do the lds consider this a sin that someone could be sent home for?

It is hardly a threat when the missionary already knows that being sent home is the policy for such behavior. A missionary cannot give his all to the Lord when such a very strong diversion is competing.

You are talking about a time when the hormones of a young man are off the scale. If romantic pursuits were not bridled, many would perhaps choose the encounter over the mission, or worse yet, fall into transgression. Also, 100% of the missionaries focus and efforts are to the Lord. It is a small sacrifice.

 

[Frankie]

It is hardly a threat when the missionary already knows that being sent home is the policy for such behavior. A missionary cannot give his all to the Lord when such a very strong diversion is competing.

You are talking about a time when the hormones of a young man are off the scale. If romantic pursuits were not bridled, many would perhaps choose the encounter over the mission, or worse yet, fall into transgression. Also, 100% of the missionaries focus and efforts are to the Lord. It is a small sacrifice.

Where does the belief that this is nessesary come from? Is it in lds scripture some where?

I have to wonder why the lds church thinks that young men on missions are not mature enough to "bridle their passions" but are encouraging these same young men to go out for 2 years on these missions. They hold their passports, they tell them what they can and can't read, how they can and can't act,, where they can and can't go. It seems that the lds church does not have much faith in the individual behaviors of these men. Young people, all over the world go on "missions" for the Lord, all the time and they bring people to Christ through the Holy Spirit, without the constraints of the LDS rules.

Still no one has answered my question.... why do lds consider it a sin for these young men to fall in love, hold hands with or even a quick kiss when they are serving a mission for the Lord. It seems to me that I person who would loose sight of God and bringing people to Jesus, just because they have fallen in love, really shouldn't be on a mission anyway. One does not have to give up real life to serve the Lord and bring people to Christ. If real life gets in the way of sharing God with others, I think it is time to investigate your (anyone's) faith and see if you really have any to begin with. The Holy Spirit is not some flighty, leave at the drop of a hat, God.

Frankie

 

[Wrigley]

Where does the belief that this is nessesary come from? Is it in lds scripture some where?

I have to wonder why the lds church thinks that young men on missions are not mature enough to "bridle their passions" but are encouraging these same young men to go out for 2 years on these missions. They hold their passports, they tell them what they can and can't read, how they can and can't act,, where they can and can't go. It seems that the lds church does not have much faith in the individual behaviors of these men. Young people, all over the world go on "missions" for the Lord, all the time and they bring people to Christ through the Holy Spirit, without the constraints of the LDS rules.

Still no one has answered my question.... why do lds consider it a sin for these young men to fall in love, hold hands with or even a quick kiss when they are serving a mission for the Lord. It seems to me that I person who would loose sight of God and bringing people to Jesus, just because they have fallen in love, really shouldn't be on a mission anyway. One does not have to give up real life to serve the Lord and bring people to Christ. If real life gets in the way of sharing God with others, I think it is time to investigate your (anyone's) faith and see if you really have any to begin with. The Holy Spirit is not some flighty, leave at the drop of a hat, God.

Frankie

Simple answer. Because the mormon church says so.

 

[MormonFriend]

Where does the belief that this is nessesary come from? Is it in lds scripture some where?

Probably from experience. The program is working very well, so we are doing it right.

I have to wonder why the lds church thinks that young men on missions are not mature enough to "bridle their passions" but are encouraging these same young men to go out for 2 years on these missions. ...

But obviously the church does think that they are potentially mature enough, or they would not send them out. One must consider that Satan can pour it on with temptation, as well as ease back. Satan eases back when the individual eases through life, and he pours it on when the individual gives his all to the Lord.

So why not avoid the potential for temptation by staying away from the very source of temptation? If an alchoholic is recovered, should he still go into the bar just to visit his friends?

They hold their passports, they tell them what they can and can't read, how they can and can't act,, where they can and can't go. It seems that the lds church does not have much faith in the individual behaviors of these men. Young people, all over the world go on "missions" for the Lord, all the time and they bring people to Christ through the Holy Spirit, without the constraints of the LDS rules.

That rules are constraints is a misnomer. Do you imply that the success of our missionaries is done through the Holy Spirit? ... I didn't think so. Respectfully, I think the same concerning the missionaries you referred to. Again, Satan is going to devote his greatest resources to those who he sees doing the greatest good. Rules are a guide to keep us free, not constrained.

Still no one has answered my question.... why do lds consider it a sin for these young men to fall in love, hold hands with or even a quick kiss when they are serving a mission for the Lord.

It is not considered a sin. Such behavior would indicate that the missionary has desires greater than his mission if he cannot sacrifice these desires for a short period. (Admittedly, it seems an eternity at the time.)

It seems to me that I person who would loose sight of God and bringing people to Jesus, just because they have fallen in love, really shouldn't be on a mission anyway.

To bring people to Jesus is to know of His Love and teach it to the people. One cannot teach that Love if one does not comprehend that Love. Have you noticed that there is a degree of sacrifice associated with the degree of Love?
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John15:13)

Have you noticed that obedience is associated with the attainment of Love?
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John15:10)

Commandments are rules. They seem constraining to the unregenerated. They are proven to be liberating by the converted. They empower the missionary to do his job well.

The Holy Spirit is not some flighty, leave at the drop of a hat, God.

Frankie

I agree! But people are flighty, and leave God at the drop of a hat, simply by rebelling over the rules.

Thank you for bringing these things up. I believe it illustrates the "basics" which we must comprehend before we graduate from "kindergarten," and go on to the meat of the gospel.

 

[Frankie]

Probably from experience. The program is working very well, so we are doing it right.

But obviously the church does think that they are potentially mature enough, or they would not send them out. One must consider that Satan can pour it on with temptation, as well as ease back. Satan eases back when the individual eases through life, and he pours it on when the individual gives his all to the Lord.

Satan temps everyone, not just lds missionaries. It is when you do live in the real world and still reject Satan that you grow in your walk with God.

So why not avoid the potential for temptation by staying away from the very source of temptation? If an alchoholic is recovered, should he still go into the bar just to visit his friends?


That rules are constraints is a misnomer. Do you imply that the success of our missionaries is done through the Holy Spirit? ... I didn't think so. Respectfully, I think the same concerning the missionaries you referred to. Again, Satan is going to devote his greatest resources to those who he sees doing the greatest good. Rules are a guide to keep us free, not constrained.

Are you saying that the LDS missionaries do the greatest good and therefore Satan is going to work harder on them than Christian missionaries or anyone else for that matter?

It is not considered a sin. Such behavior would indicate that the missionary has desires greater than his mission if he cannot sacrifice these desires for a short period. (Admittedly, it seems an eternity at the time.)

Since when did falling in love = not willing to do what it takes to serve God? If this were the case then no one should ever marry because their "desires" would get in the way of serving God and bringing people to Jesus.

To bring people to Jesus is to know of His Love and teach it to the people. One cannot teach that Love if one does not comprehend that Love.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that only lds missionaries really comprehend the love of Jesus? Are you saying that one can not comprehend the love of Jesus if they don't give their lives over to the rules of the lds church like it's missionaries do?

Have you noticed that there is a degree of sacrifice associated with the degree of Love?
Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends. (John15:13)

Have you noticed that obedience is associated with the attainment of Love?
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love. (John15:10)

I don't always do everything that my God would have me do, never the less, I always love Him. My husband doesn't obey me and I love him, my kids don't always obey me and I still love them. Just because I fall short, does not mean that I don't love God and it certainly doesn't mean that God stops giving His love to me.

Commandments are rules. They seem constraining to the unregenerated. They are proven to be liberating by the converted. They empower the missionary to do his job well.

Where is the proof that God has commanded that his missionaries have the rules that the lds missionaries do?

Also, I find it extremely offensive for you to suggest that I, and all Christians like me are unregenerated because we view the lds rules as constraining.

I agree! But people are flighty, and leave God at the drop of a hat, simply by rebelling over the rules.

One does not leave God just because they rebell. They allow their flesh to take over for a time but they do not leave God. To leave God, after you have been indwelled with the Holy Spirit, you would have to flat out deny that God and tell him to leave you, which in itself is a contradiction. One does not "leave" God just because they make a mistake. There is nothing that can seperate a believer from the love that is in Christ Jesus for the God of a believer will NEVER leave or forsake that believer, even if the believer falls short. We are human and we make mistakes, that does not mean that we leave God.

Thank you for bringing these things up. I believe it illustrates the "basics" which we must comprehend before we graduate from "kindergarten," and go on to the meat of the gospel.

Thank you for insinuating that all non-lds are still in kindergarten. You have not proven that the lds missionaries rules have anything to do with God's command or that he has put those rules in place. God calls all believers to be deciples and to teach his word and the HOly Spirit works through believers to bring people to Christ without the "constraint" of the lds mission rules. YOu have not shown how the lds mission rules make for "better" missionaries to spread the Word of the Lord.

Frankie

 

[fatboys]

I have heard that Mormon missionaries have been threatened to be sent home for things such as becoming attacted to a young lady or for kissing or holding hands with a lady they have fallen in love with on their mission. I have also been told that if this happens, they transfer the boy missionary to another "zone" . This seems more than a little odd to me. How does kissing, holding hands with, or falling in love with a person while you are on a mission distrupt the work of the holy spirit to bring people to Jesus? Why do the lds consider this a sin that someone could be sent home for?

FB: Your kidding? When I went on my mission my focus was on serving the Lord. If a missionary is distracted by women and not what he is there to do, then he should be sent home and go on with his life. But we sacrifice two years to the Lord in teaching the gospel. Dating is forbidden. We know this before we go and is part of the rules. If we did not agree to this, then we should not go. Plain and simple.

 

[calgal]

FB: Your kidding? When I went on my mission my focus was on serving the Lord. If a missionary is distracted by women and not what he is there to do, then he should be sent home and go on with his life. But we sacrifice two years to the Lord in teaching the gospel. Dating is forbidden. We know this before we go and is part of the rules. If we did not agree to this, then we should not go. Plain and simple.

Here is a thought for you: Why send teenage boys (19 is still a teen) on a mission if their hormonal state is a distraction? Why not send them at 21 or 22? Just curious (the starting age NEVER made sense to me)

 

[fatboys]

Here is a thought for you: Why send teenage boys (19 is still a teen) on a mission if their hormonal state is a distraction? Why not send them at 21 or 22? Just curious (the starting age NEVER made sense to me)

FB: From your posts it appears this is not the only thing that did not make sense to you. If 21 or 22 was the age they were sent at, you would say why not send them at a earlier age, say 19?

 

[skylark1]

Why are girls not allowed to go on a mission until they are 20, while boys can go when they are 19?

 

[MormonFriend]

Satan temps everyone, not just lds missionaries.

Agreed. But does Satan tempt some more that others for strategic reasons?

It is when you do live in the real world and still reject Satan that you grow in your walk with God.

I agree again. But I thought that you would consider that a work, unless growing in our walk with God is not related to salvation. Help me here.

Are you saying that the LDS missionaries do the greatest good and therefore Satan is going to work harder on them than Christian missionaries or anyone else for that matter?

Whoever is doing the greatest good is who Satan is going to focus his heaviest artillery. Please don't try and make this a contentious issue. The principle is true in any combative situation. If the Pope is doing the greatest good for God's Kindom on earth, that is where Satan's greatest forces will be to stop that work. I believe that the LDS missionaries are doing major good for the Kingdom, and that is where I believe much of Satan's forces are. If you believe we are doing opposite to God's will, then Satan will not try to discourage that. The stategy of Satan and temptation is what I was trying to communicate.

I don't understand what you are saying here. Are you saying that only lds missionaries really comprehend the love of Jesus? Are you saying that one can not comprehend the love of Jesus if they don't give their lives over to the rules of the lds church like it's missionaries do?

I am saying that the Love of Jesus is not comprehended by anyone until they have learned to make sacrifices themselves, as Jesus gave example and taught. The sacrifices that missionaries are asked to do, LDS or Christian, teach them a better level of love which improves their qualificaitons to teach the Love of Christ. I believe that Mother Teresa was very highly qualified to teach Love.

I don't always do everything that my God would have me do, never the less, I always love Him. My husband doesn't obey me and I love him, my kids don't always obey me and I still love them. Just because I fall short, does not mean that I don't love God and it certainly doesn't mean that God stops giving His love to me.

I suppose we have a different concept of love. It seems that your concept is either on or off, you do or you don't.
I see love as in degrees like a light dimmer. We are bright or dim, or anywhere inbetween. If we don't do all that God asks of us means that we are not as "bright" as our potential would allow us because of our mis-use of free will. God does not stop loving us, I agree. But the love He gives us is hindered, not fully received when we sin.

Where is the proof that God has commanded that his missionaries have the rules that the lds missionaries do?

If God sends out missionaries, it is through His prophets.
Surely the Lord GOD will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets. (Amos3:7)
I don't know what prophet has sent out Christian missionaries, or if they are sent by a prophet, so I cannot speak for them. But LDS missionaries are under the direction of a prophet, which is where the rules come from.
So what you need is proof that Gordon B. Hinckley is a prophet. Sorry, I cannot prove that for another. I have proved it for myself.

Also, I find it extremely offensive for you to suggest that I, and all Christians like me are unregenerated because we view the lds rules as constraining.

Didn't I say "commandments of God?"

One does not leave God just because they rebell. They allow their flesh to take over for a time but they do not leave God.

It would seem to me that during this time of "take over" that they have allowed the evil spirit to take over for that time. Is the mind off limits to that spirit? Could the views and beliefs have been manipulated like a computer program? A virus can affect the whole computer, including a malfunction of its self diagnostic program. Why not a soul's mind?

To leave God, after you have been indwelled with the Holy Spirit, you would have to flat out deny that God and tell him to leave you, which in itself is a contradiction.

Actually, I see that potential. That would be the unpardonable sin. This is why I believe that God will not indwell us with the fullness of His Spirit, until we have lost the propensity to sin. That is for our own protection.

One does not "leave" God just because they make a mistake. There is nothing that can seperate a believer from the love that is in Christ Jesus for the God of a believer will NEVER leave or forsake that believer, even if the believer falls short. We are human and we make mistakes, that does not mean that we leave God.

Love is the key. We don't have the brightest level of love if we still make mistakes contrary to knowledge we have. We cannot be separated froma love that we never had. It is possible to think we have that love, only because we have not yet experienced the greater love and cannot yet distinguish it.

Thank you for insinuating that all non-lds are still in kindergarten.
Frankie

No offense intended. I see that concept as a taught principle in scripture. Many LDS are still in kindergarten. I was not pointing a finger at anyone intentionally. If you think the principle is false, lets discuss it. I am open to correction. I do not exempt myself from being in kindergarten according to the application of this principle, if your doctrines are correct.

 

[fatboys]

Why are girls not allowed to go on a mission until they are 20, while boys can go when they are 19?

FB: I think it is 21. If a girl has the desire to go on a mission, then they can. But it is not a commandment as it is with the boys.

 

[calgal]

FB: From your posts it appears this is not the only thing that did not make sense to you. If 21 or 22 was the age they were sent at, you would say why not send them at a earlier age, say 19?

May I suggest getting help dealing with the anger you are expressing here? It is not healthy to be this mad.

 

[skylark1]

FB: I think it is 21. If a girl has the desire to go on a mission, then they can. But it is not a commandment as it is with the boys.

Ok, why the difference in age for a mission between boys and girls? Does the LDS Church believe that a 21 year old girl has the same level of maturity as a 19 year old boy?

Also, if a mission is a commandment for boys, why did the LDS Church "raise the bar" for missionaries recently? Why prevent some from going, if they are commanded to go?

 

[MormonFriend]

Why are girls not allowed to go on a mission until they are 20, while boys can go when they are 19?

I do not know for sure. Perhaps you could write the Missionary dept. at the Church Office Bldg, and ask that one.

This I do know. I value the Sisters abilities, maturity, and knowledge. They are wonderful to work with, as I have done much over the years as a Stake / Ward Missionary.