Question for Christian old-earth evolutionists

Many of you have said you feel that the scientific evidence for evolution is convincing, and therefore you believe it. I believe the idea is that G~d could have started life and then used evolution to get life where it is today.

On what scientific evidence do you base your belief that G~d created life? Why don't you believe in abiogenesis?
 

Didaskomenos

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Originally posted by npetreley
Many of you have said you feel that the scientific evidence for evolution is convincing, and therefore you believe it. I believe the idea is that G~d could have started life and then used evolution to get life where it is today.

On what scientific evidence do you base your belief that G~d created life? Why don't you believe in abiogenesis?

What's your point here? I do not believe there is scientific evidence for everything I believe in. Does that prohibit me from believing anything with a scientific basis? Does believing something with a scientific basis preclude my having any non-empirical beliefs? You believe certain things established by science (gravity), but that doesn't invalidate your spiritual beliefs.

I believe your point is the slippery slope, "where do you draw the line" argument. My answer: I am a Christian. I have faith in my Creator, based on and consistently proven by my relationship with him. I believe he is responsible for the book we call the Bible - it points to Truth (sometimes more obliquely than others). But so does the book we call nature. We Christians are supposed to hope after Truth, seek it always, and have faith in it. I have a problem with those who approach their interpretation of the Bible as the end-all and be-all fountain of Truth: they can really live their whole lives without ever needing real faith in the Creator as the source of Truth ("for who hopes for what he already has?"). What faith is involved in being able to consult the answer book for every fact?
 
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jon1101

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Originally posted by npetreley
Many of you have said you feel that the scientific evidence for evolution is convincing, and therefore you believe it. I believe the idea is that G~d could have started life and then used evolution to get life where it is today.

On what scientific evidence do you base your belief that G~d created life? Why don't you believe in abiogenesis?

In my case, I am still trying to learn of evolution and thus abiogenesis has taken a back-seat. I would guess that, in the end, I'll most likely take the stance of "God did it, but God's acts resulted in some tangible, physical happenings so science should go about studying them."

I tend to leave teleology to theology or philosophy and let science deal exclusively with what physically, tangibly happened. If philosophy would like to take scientific findings and include them in a teleological argument, more power to them. Regardless of this, however, science does not, as I understand it, make such claims.

For example, I believe that God created life; but instead of saying that God magically through some dust in the wind to create Adam, I would submit that he used an incredibly intricate process called evolution. Science deals with the process, philosophy deals with the teleological statement, if any such statement is made.

Did I answer your question or am I just rambling?

-jon
 
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Chris†opher Paul

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Faith and science can not contradict each other Nick.

God created science...or rather, all the physical material in the Universe and the laws that govern them, in order to create a stable atmosphere for His beloved Humans.

Science is wonderful, and it doesnt contradict faith.
 
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Originally posted by s0uljah
Faith and science can not contradict each other Nick.

God created science...or rather, all the physical material in the Universe and the laws that govern them, in order to create a stable atmosphere for His beloved Humans.

Science is wonderful, and it doesnt contradict faith.

I agree, but I think it's safe to say others don't.
 
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Stormy

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I agree that Science is good. Man should work to learn all that he can about this Universe and its life. Science has been a great benefit to mankind.

I think at least some of the Atheist think Science and God can not co-exist. That is wrong. I can acknowledge the worth of Science without turning from my Faith in God.

My Faith in God is Strong.

But I really marvel at the Faith some Atheist have that there is not a God.

They can actually believe in the supposed spontaneous origination of living organisms directly from lifeless matter.

Now that I think of it. :scratch:
That is a part of my Faith.

God made life from dust. :bow:
 
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Chris H

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Originally posted by npetreley
Does scientific evidence contradict anything you believe in? Which takes precedence, a scientific statement or your faith?

Science helps my faith. I believe the universe had an origin. I also belive that it had an intelligent cause. However, Teleology is philosophy not Science. Plus, I think the evidence for common descent is overwhelming.

Chris
 
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Originally posted by Chris H
Science helps my faith. I believe the universe had an origin. I also belive that it had an intelligent cause. However, Teleology is philosophy not Science. Plus, I think the evidence for common descent is overwhelming.

Chris

You still haven't answered the question. You state that you believe in an intelligent creator, but not why.
 
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David Gould

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When I was a Christian of the liberal stripe I believe that God created the universe.

Did how he did it matter to me?

No.

Big Bang was what science was pointing to at that time, although now the thinking is that that was simply the start of this part of the multiverse so all we have done is push it back a little.

There was no conflict for me with evolution and God.

I had not even heard that such a conflict existed for others - I only heard about YECism after becoming an atheist.

The Bible was written in the main by people trying to explain their interpretation of God. That was obviously filtered through the scientific knowledge of their time.

We now have a better understanding of science. Does that make their insights less valid? It depends what you look at them for. If you look at them for science, then they have zero validity. If you look at them for the idea of the human connecting in some fashion with the divine, then they are as valid today as they were when they were written.

 

That is my old views, of course. Now I am an atheist it no longer matters to me. But the thing is, it didn't matter to me when I was a christian. Evolutionism did not make me lose my faith - it did not even conflict in any way with my faith.

As to why I believed in God it was because I felt a connection with him and to the person, Jesus, described in the New Testament. Maybe this is what is meant when people talk about it being a relationship.

 

Now of course I know that there was never anything there except my own wishful thinking.

A question for you, Nick: if evolution was proven to you to be completely true, would you lose faith in God? That seems to be the logical conclusion but it seems odd to me. Salvation hardly rests on belief that the world is young.
 
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Originally posted by David Gould
When I was a Christian of the liberal stripe I believe that God created the universe.

Why? And why won't anyone answer this question?

A question for you, Nick: if evolution was proven to you to be completely true, would you lose faith in God?

IMO that's a meaningless hypothetical. First, it can never be proven true. Second, my faith is a gift from G~d, not the product of science or intellect.
 
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Chris H

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Actually, I don't belive that God created the universe for any real scientific reason. I believe in God because I belive that he works in my life.

I belive in evolution because of the evidence.

Put 2 n 2 together.

I see NO scientific way to argue any kind of a creationist belief.

Chris
 
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Sinai

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Originally posted by npetreley

On what scientific evidence do you base your belief that G~d created life? Why don't you believe in abiogenesis?

Personally, I don't base my belief that God created life upon scientific evidence. I believe it because that's what the Bible says and because there is no evidence to the contrary. But even if abiogenesis were proven to be the way life began, it would not change that, since it would still not be contrary to the Bible. The only times the Hebrew word bara' (indicating that God created something out of nothing or that God created something where no matter had existed previously) are used in the creation account is once for the creation of the universe and twice when telling of God's creation of the neshama (or nishmath)--man's soul or capacity for special eternal fellowship with God. The rest of the time, God apparently used existing matter to make or fashion what he wished--but the Bible does not say how God did it. Science tends to be more interested in determining the when and the how, while the Bible tends to be more interested in telling us the why and the Who.....
 
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