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Featured Question about the Rosary and Hail Mary

Discussion in 'Traditional Theology' started by Erik Nelson, Jul 11, 2019.

  1. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Luminous (Without Distractions)

    [​IMG]

    3) Say three Hail Marys for Faith, Hope, and Charity: “Hail Mary, full of grace. The Lord is with thee. Blessed art thou amongst women, And blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, Pray for us sinners, Now and at the hour of our death. Amen.” – 3 times​

    Original Greek is Theotokos = bearer of God (cp. "Bearer of Good news")

    so can you say the Rosary using those words instead?

    "Holy Mary, bearer of God..."
     
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  2. Lost4words

    Lost4words Like a puppy, i need guidance. Supporter

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    I think this thread be better moved to the Catholic section for obvious reasons!
     
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  3. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    Two answers:

    1. If you are not a Catholic, you can use whatever prayers you want. The rosary began as a simple counting device and you can use it that way yourself, just as many non-Catholics do.

    2. If you are a Catholic, you have an obligation to use the rosary as the church approves and as it has ordered. It was the Roman Catholic Church itself that ordered that the words you are referring to be added to the Hail Mary prayer. The RCC has altered the rosary in many ways over the centuries.
     
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  4. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    How do you say the rosary in Latin?
     
  5. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I suppose that if you know Latin, there is no reason you cannot use it when saying the rosary, but the Church doesn't prefer Latin to be used and I have never met anyone who actually does pray the rosary in Latin.
     
  6. Dave G.

    Dave G. Well-Known Member

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    There are a few youtube videos of the rosary in Latin, How To Say, Gregorian etc......
     
  7. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Hello Erik! It's been a while. Good to read your words.

    Depending on the reason for saying it that way I don't think it would be a sin or anything. It does though fall so far short of the whole picture of God entering a family and having Himself raised up by a human mother.

    Mary's motherhood is what makes her a unique and exclusive source of the mysteries of Our Lord.
     
  8. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    Change your thinking about the Trinity. It's not God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. As long as you use this formulation your mind is going to try and auto-correct "Holy Mary, mother of God" to "Holy Mary, mother of God [the Father]" which creates a lot of theological angst.

    It's God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit. The "mother of God" concept bothered me a lot as I moved out of the Baptist faith into liturgical circles until I realized the source was the casual way I had come to think of the Trinity.
     
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  9. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    Why say "bearer" when you could just say "mother"?
     
  10. Tigger45

    Tigger45 St Francis Supporter

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    You could replace 'mother of God' with 'mother of my Lord' like from

    Luke 1:43

    But why am I so favored, that the mother of my Lord should come to me?
     
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  11. GreekOrthodox

    GreekOrthodox Psalti Chrysostom

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    The Eastern Orthodox version of the Hail Mary:

    Θεοτόκε Παρθένε, χαῖρε, κεχαριτωμένη Μαρία, ὁ Κύριος μετὰ σοῦ. εὐλογημένη σὺ ἐν γυναιξί, καὶ εὐλογημένος ὁ καρπὸς τῆς κοιλίας σου, ὅτι Σωτήρα ἔτεκες τῶν ψυχῶν ἡμῶν.

    Theotokos Virgin, rejoice, Mary full of grace, the Lord is with You. Blessed are You among women, and blessed is the fruit of Your womb, for You have borne the Savior of our souls.
     
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  12. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    "Theos" is "God", not "Good News". I 'spect "Bearer of God"is fine, but then it means the same thing as "Mother of God", doesn't it?
     
  13. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    Sancta Maria mater Dei?
     
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  14. Newtheran

    Newtheran Well-Known Member

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    Once again, the Orthodox show to all the wisdom retained in the Church founded by Jesus.
     
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  15. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    mother implies active creator and origin of, whereas bearer emphasizes passive vessel carrier of Divine Presence
     
  16. Knee V

    Knee V It's phonetic.

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    No one who uses the term "mother of God" understands "mother" to mean that, nor thinks that Mary caused the eternal Logo's to come into existence.

    The only kind of person who bears another human in its body is a mother.
     
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  17. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    I understood that concern from what was written in the OP, and you would be the one using the rosary and doing the praying.
     
  18. Jipsah

    Jipsah Blood Drinker

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    The Blessed Virgin wasn't simply "carrier of Divine Presence", was she? She was the mother of God Incarnate. Somehow I don't think most folks grasp the concept of the Incarnation very well.
     
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  19. tz620q

    tz620q Regular Member Supporter

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    You might want to ponder on what it means when we say "Christ wrapped himself in our humanity" or "Christ became flesh to redeem us". This does sound as though Christ was the active creator; but in truth that paradigm is rooted in this thought that God creates everything without human involvement. It places us as passive recipients of God's acts. I think that this is one pitfall that can come from TULIP, the thought that we are powerless, predestined either to hell or heaven. As a good parent, God wants us to stand on our own two feet and choose him as a personal act of faith. This is what Mary did. She made an active choice to become Christ's mother and to participate in the wondrous mystery of the Incarnation. Isn't the thought that God, Himself, choose to become man in all ways, even to being grown as a baby inside a woman taking on her flesh, a more glorious idea than Mary somehow being only a surrogate of a preconceived fetus that shared none of her humanity?
     
  20. Erik Nelson

    Erik Nelson Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Mary bore / carried the Word of God in her womb

    she did not carry The God The Father in her womb, "no man may see The God The Father and live", God God remains transcendent & remote and interacts into Creation only through His Word and His Spirit

    The God The Father has never manifested in our created space-time, not in the Incarnation, not ever -- only His Word and His Spirit have manifested in our creation

    Mary was the bearer of God's WORD incarnate (not GOD HIMSELF), John 1
     
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