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Question about the book of Job! ( first post, be nice :)

Discussion in 'Exposition & Bible Study' started by Chantale Perron, May 21, 2019.

  1. Chantale Perron

    Chantale Perron New Member

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    First things first, I'm Chantale from the French part of Canada, Quebec. Hello everybody!
    I was reading the book of Job, and I came into a verse that made me cringe, like most similar verses that have an aggressive tone to it. I'm a pacifist...

    “The righteous will be happy to see the wicked destroyed, and the innocent will laugh in contempt.
    Job 22:19 NLT"
    But, didn't Jesus said to love our enemies, and never rejoice in someone else's sorrows?
    Even the righteous have misfortunes and pain, just like the wicked. Good and bad people. Nobody is spared.
    That's always what leaves me pouting when I read the Bible, such content about people being destroyed and God clapping hands ( as they make it sounds) up there, rejoicing.
    Help me out!
     
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  2. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Different era of covenant with God. Job wasn't even under the Mosaic Covenant.

    We are under the Covenant of Jesus. We do what He told us to do.
     
  3. Halbhh

    Halbhh The wonder and awe of "all things" Supporter

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    In this particular moment it is Eliphaz speaking, one of Job's 'friends'. Later God will interrupt all of them in chapter 38, and you will notice God's first words there --
    “Who is this that obscures my plans
    with words without knowledge?"
    We sense that God is speaking not only to one alone (though He interrupts Elihu possibly), but to them all. All 5.

    Later we find out in chapter 42 that these 'friends' were so far in the wrong they needed to offer sacrifices only acceptable if Job prays for them, so far in the wrong were they! It's just a good caution to notice who is speaking at any moment in Job, that it may be some more of the many "words without knowledge".

    But, that doesn't mean God tolerates evil forever, without ever ending it. He loves us, therefore He cannot simply allow evil to continue unabated forever, because evil amounts to harming others, and he loves those who are being harmed by any particular evil also.

    So, God is slow to anger, but there isn't an indifferent infinite amount of patience, as if harm to people, evil, doesn't matter. It will one day be ended.

    When evil is ended, the innocent victims, and the repentant too, will rejoice at the end of evil.

    We all will be so happy to see evil ended.

    In the bible hyperbole is very often used to help emphasize something that is hard to imagine.

    It's hard to imagine how happy we will be to see evil finally ended.

    So, it's an occasion for hyperbole, to help suggest how great the happiness will be to see Justice end evil.

    Another of many passages on this --
    Malachi 4 ESV
    (this is connected to John the Baptist in Luke chapter 1 also. Now, the hearts of the parents have been turned to love their children, and the world is spared, for a time)
     
  4. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    God's Ways are not man's ways,

    God's thoughts are (while always right) as high above our thoughts as heaven is above the earth.

    NO ONE (I know of) is teaching God's Ways nor God's Thoughts.

    Except God and His Word, of course.

    God's Wrath is about to swiftly executed over the whole earth - billions will die, most forever. No mercy for those.
     
  5. pescador

    pescador Newbie Supporter

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    There is a lot of wickedness and intolerance in => The Old Testament <= and Job is a very difficult book to understand. Think of the saga of Noah, when God destroyed everyone on Earth (except Noah and his family) because of the evil being practiced, or Sodom and Gomorrah, evil cities (and their inhabitants) destroyed by God, or the plagues of Egypt (including the killing of the firstborn).

    As Christians, born into an entirely New Covenant, we are told to love God with all our hearts, souls, and minds, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. Punishment is up to God!

    There is a real danger in taking one verse in one "book" and extrapolating doctrine from it. Live your life as a Christian to the best of your ability and leave the rest to God. :amen:
     
  6. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

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    First it is important to get the context and situation going on.

    Who is talking in chapter 22?

    verse 1
    "Then Eliphaz the Temanite answered and said,"

    You will notice for a good portion of this book Job is basically confronting his supposed friends about his situation and God, and the likes.

    You will also notice at the end of the book God rebukes Jobs friends because they are are not close to even know what is going on.

    I think you need to focus on who is talking and what is going on. That is where you might have gotten confused.
     
  7. Sam91

    Sam91 Child of the Living God Supporter

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    Proverbs 3:5-6

    Trust God. Seek Him and grow in Him. He will teach, through life and through His word.

    @Halbhh had a good point that it was one of Job's friends doing the talking and that they were found to be in error.

    As God reveals Himself to us, we grow in Awe at different aspects of His character in ways which are right for us. He moulds and shapes our understanding over time.

    Also, welcome to CF :)
     
  8. Acts2:38

    Acts2:38 Well-Known Member

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    As a separate side note, even though God loves us, peoples disobedience and "rebellion" against him will surely separate themselves from God thereby leading them to eternal destruction as the righteous get eternal life.

    2 Thessalonians 1:8-9
    Isaiah 59
    Revelations 22:16-19

    It would be wise to not let pacifism put a wedge between you and God. Like someone else said and along with what scripture says, His ways are higher than ours, who are we to question His judgement?
     
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  9. dqhall

    dqhall Well-Known Member Supporter

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    God sent Jesus because the Hebrew Bible alone was not good enough.
     
  10. yeshuaslavejeff

    yeshuaslavejeff simple truth, martyr, disciple of Yahshua

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    In the Apocalypse, the righteous (beheaded martyrs) pray to the Almighty to QUICKLY EXECUTE HIS VENGEANCE upon those who shed innocent blood.
    The Almighty tells them, "wait a little while"

    " AFTER the LAST MARTYR has been executed,

    "THEN I will act quickly and execute vengeance upon the earth for all the blood shed since Abel"

    'aggressive' ? Perhaps.

    Just? Perfectly.
    Right? Perfectly.
    Righteous? Perfectly.
    Correct? Perfectly.

    All ACCORDING TO GOD'S PLAN, HIS WORD, HIS PURPOSE, IN SALVATION IN CHRIST JESUS !
     
  11. paul1149

    paul1149 that your faith might rest in the power of God Supporter

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    Who's doing the talking in Job, and whether he was later generally declared to have error, I don't think is pertinent, because you can find similar sentiment to these verses in the Psalms and Proverbs. What does matter is that we are under a "better covenant", as Hebrews says, one of spirit not letter (2Cor 3). In instructing us to love our enemies, Jesus teaches us to distinguish between the sin and the person. "Love the sinner; hate the sin."

    This was clear from the outset, when Jesus quoted Isaiah 61 to inaugurate His ministry:

    "The Spirit of the Lord GOD is upon Me, Because the LORD has anointed Me To preach good tidings to the poor; He has sent Me to heal the brokenhearted, To proclaim liberty to the captives, And the opening of the prison to those who are bound; To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD... -Isa 61:1-2
    He stops just short of including, " And the day of vengeance of our God". Of course the full counsel of God includes that wrath is coming on the disobedient, but Jesus' purpose on Earth was to seek and save the lost, those who are willing. That was His emphasis (John 3.16-17), and it should be ours too, because it reflects the heart of God better than the covenants in the Old Testament.
     
  12. Chantale Perron

    Chantale Perron New Member

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    Oh...I like your advice pretty much, and friend, thats I exactly intend to do.
     
  13. Chantale Perron

    Chantale Perron New Member

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    I'm ready for the molding! You guys are sweet and helpful. Thank you, I feel very warmly welcomed.
     
  14. Chantale Perron

    Chantale Perron New Member

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    Very clear answer, you brought all together with the others great food for my heart and mind. I must brace myself for the rest of my reading.....I'm not done with conflicting feelings in the O.T. Love is what is leading me, has been all my life, and I accept judgement for my blue flower nature. I was in a church where people played the game of " who's a real Christian and who's not". Now, I'm on my own and I have the best relationship with God I ever had in my life. I'm happy.
     
  15. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    A pastor about a hundred years ago said, "We find a button and weave an entire coat behind it."
     
  16. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    Also John 12:

    If anyone hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world. There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; the very words I have spoken will condemn them at the last day.
     
  17. Sam91

    Sam91 Child of the Living God Supporter

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    Hi, your quote is slightly incorrectly written. You've made a positive negative.

    EDIT: It was me who was mistaken! :confused:
     
    Last edited: May 22, 2019
  18. RDKirk

    RDKirk Alien, Pilgrim, and Sojourner Supporter

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    It was a cut and paste. Do you have a version that says the opposite?
     
  19. brinny

    brinny everlovin' shiner of light in dark places Supporter

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    Hello Chantale. What came to mind for me as i read your OP is the question about "aggressiveness", and the question regarding Jesus, and if Jesus was ever "aggressive".

    Was He?

    The next question which follows is:

    Is "aggressiveness" a "sin"?

    Welcome to CF. :wave:
     
  20. Sam91

    Sam91 Child of the Living God Supporter

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    Yes, I googled it after seeing the first sentence being incorrect.

    EDIT. My apologies, I was wrong. I looked again at the verse. That was weird, forgive me. I am fatigued this week and was travelling on public transport earlier.
     
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