Question about the 1000 year reign - rapture

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Ted
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Hi sk,

Davey wrote:
Open up your Bible, pray for understanding, and get down to doing your OWN Bible study. Get some Bible study software tools, like from BibleSoft. You need at minimum some Bible cross-reference tools like a Strong's Exhaustive Concordance and The Treasury of Scripture Knowledge, and maybe a couple of Bible dictionaries (I recommend a Smith's as a simple one).

I fully agree with that advice. We can each one individually come to understand all that God has revealed to us in His Scriptures, but it does require some diligent study to understand many of the deeper things of God. We need to understand that God did cause the Scriptures to be written to man that man might understand Him and all that He has done, is doing and will do to bring about the final culmination of His plan of the salvation of men.

Because of the symbolism that fills much of the writing of the Revelation of Jesus it may well be that God wants us to have some awareness of these things that are written to us, but possibly not come to full understanding as to exactly how it will be worked out in the reality of life on the earth until the events actually begin to happen. Then the one who has diligently studied God's word will be able to recognize what is happening as the events unfold.

The Revelation tells us of a day that the sun will turn black as sackcloth and the moon red as blood. Many people try to tie this account to some historical event that has already happened. However, there may actually come a day upon the earth when all the people of the earth look up and marvel that the sun somehow seems to be black and the moon is sitting off to the side of it red as blood. For the one who has studied the Scriptures, he will know what's going on and what's about to happen. But we won't any of us likely really know what that day is going to be like until it actually comes upon us.

The Revelation tells us of a beast that will rise up out of the sea. The 'sea' is generally understood to be a symbolic description of all the people living on the earth. So, the day may well come when we recognize some person or power that has risen up out of the people of the earth that fits the description of this beast to a tee. For the one familiar with the Scriptures, he will be able to know and understand what is happening and resist the temptation of worshiping the beast while it seems that the whole world around him is just following along and praising and worshiping this beast.

Some day, because God has warned those who are His of this great beast coming up out of the people of the earth, will we not see and understand as that beast begins to rear it's ugly head? Again, yes, there are those who believe they have pinpointed who the beast is, but upon careful inspection, so far to me, none have really met all of the description we are given of that beast.

Just as with the final Antichrist, many try to pin it down to some person living in their lifetime. Some have made the claim that President Obama was the Antichrist. Some have claimed that it's one pope or another or some other world leader, but I believe that for the one familiar with the Scriptures, he's going to recognize the final Antichrist when he comes to power. He's going to be able to say, "Aha!!!! That's the one that we were warned was coming."

So, I believe that much of what we read in the Revelation, especially as regards events that are still yet to unfold, will bring about some 'aha' moments in the born again believer's life. A moment in time when a believer living at the time a particular person or event unfolds will understand perfectly what the Scriptures have warned us of. So, we study the Revelation, in part, to be aware and on the look out for certain events to take place that we may not fully comprehend now, but we will when it makes it's appearance in the world.

God bless,
In Christ, ted
 
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Ronald

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For example when Jesus is removing the bindings of the scroll of God's judgment and he opens the seventh seal, the Scriptures tell us that there was silence in heaven for 'about half an hour'. Are we to understand that as it's really going to be 30 minutes?

As I said, Jesus opened the Scroll long ago. Actions did not start to happen. This 30 minute pause after the seventh seal was John's concept of time that represented a separation from the the seven trumpets. Remember 1 day is like 1000 years ...
But here is the key to understand the content and purpose of the seals:
Rev. 6:1 "Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, "COME AND SEE".
vs. 3 "...COME AND SEE."
vs. 5 " ... COME AND SEE." and so on.
John was given a vision of Jesus opening the scroll but then, the angel said come and see with each seal that is opened to find out what it represents - bringing him to another vision another location and time.
Therefore, the scroll is the playbook. The actions within it don't start until the stage is set and the actors are on stage and the trumpets start to blow. God sees the end from the beginning. John for a glimpse of this mystery as well.

I also agree that the opening of the seals began shortly after Jesus was slain, but as with any activity there is the passage of time going on as the activity is happening.

Once the GT begins, the passage of time is 3 1/2 years to include all the events.

There was a great earthquake. Ok, the world has experienced several of what we would call 'great' earthquakes, but is this supposed to allude to some relatively local earthquake?

"Therefore I will shake the heavens,
And the earth will move out of her place,
In the wrath of the LORD of hosts
And in the day of His fierce anger." Is. 13:13
(the earth moving out of her place means a worldwide earthquake where it shifts off it's axis.
What if it was caused by and asteroid and it pushed the earth closer to the sun - just minutely, that would explain people being scorched by the sun when the fourth bowl is poured out. ?

"The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and the moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness." Joel. 2:10
(Here we see stars not falling, but diminishing their light as well as the sun and moon "grow" dark.) Whatever the cause of this massive earthquake (which I believe is a worldwide quake), an asteroid, super-volcanic eruption, or God just supernaturally causing it, it will cause mountains to fall, islands to sink, all the tall buildings in every city to crumble and as you can see in the next verse, 7,000 die just in one city.

"In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake, seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven." Rev. 11:13 (This just prior to Rev. 11:15, the last trumpet)
Read Rev. 6:12 and then read Rev. 16:18 - (very possibly the same quake), which would prove my view of the trumpets and bowls falling within the scroll and the idea of God showing us different vantage points, an extra-dimensional sphere of events.

The sun turns black as sackcloth and the moon turns red. Is there a time in earth's history to date that we can see this event has happened?

As the scripture above suggests, the sun and the moon "grow" dark as well as the stars because of 1/3 of the planet being on fire and if not dust from super-volcanic explosions, asteroids, etc.

Then the stars fall to the earth like figs fall from a fig tree when shaken. Is there some event such as that, that has happened already in history?

Well, even if God at this point destroyed the stars, they would not fall to the earth. So it must be something else. Maybe a meteor shower or missiles in WWIII. And of course angels are referred to as stars. Fallen angels are cast upon the earth. So we have a couple to choose from.

The heavens recede like a scroll being rolled up. The only other time we read of something like this happening is just prior to God's judgment.

This one is a description of a nuclear explosion. If you watch a video of one, the clouds roll up and looks like the sky is receding like a scroll.

Some believe that rider is the Antichrist, but I'm more inclined to believe that this is the spreading of the gospel. The white horse rider is Jesus and his gospel of salvation begins to spread across the earth conquering the hearts of men. This

Jack Hayford, whom I greatly respect, wrote a book called, E·QUAKE. I learned a bit about Revelation, which my view is partially based on. In it, he also thinks Jesus is the First Horsemen. I used to think so too. John MacArthur said he is only wearing one diadem (crown), whereas when Jesus returns later with His angels, He is wearing many diadems. This White Horseman had a bow (as Satan does, who shoots his arrows at us ) and he is set out to conquer ... that doesn't sound like spreading the gospel.
Aside from this, these horsemen do harm to the earth. It is very likely that these four horsemen are the same angels in Rev. 9:14, 15. In vs. 16 we see with them are 200 million horsemen coming up out of the Abyss as demon locusts to torture mankind for 5 months. They are instructed to kill 1/3 of mankind.

Personally, I have never been convicted that the beast is a reference to Islam. I can see how some might come to that conclusion because Islam has been the greatest thorn of false religions against Christianity and Judaism. However, one of the passages of Scripture that give me pause is that we are told that all the earth, whose names are not written in the Lamb's Book of Life, will worship the beast. This doesn't yet seem to apply to Islam at this point in time and may or may not ever. We are told that the beast is given his authority by Satan, but truth be told, all false religions likely find their source in Satan. There is some further discussion of the beast, but I'll save that for another time.

Right, all unbelievers take the mark of the Beast and worship him. Why? There are over 1 billion Muslims, so why would Buddhists, Hindus, atheists suddenly believe this is truly god? Remember God sends out a strong delusion so that they will believe a lie. But also, this Anti-Christ possesses the power of Satan to call down fire from heaven and perform super-natural things so that the world won't doubt him, not to mention apparently getting healed by a deadly wound.

"And I saw one of his heads as if it had been mortally wounded, and his deadly would was healed. And all the world marveled and followed the beast." Rev.13:3
Remember, the Beast has seven heads and tens horns. The heads are nations and the horns are the kings/leaders, 3 of which are plucked and one little horn emerges out of the seven, who becomes the eighth. My understanding is that Satan possess a person and empowers that person,

"And in the latter time of their kingdom,
When the transgressors have reached their fullness,
A king shall arise,
Having fierce features,
Who understands sinister schemes.
His power shall be mighty but not by his own power.
He shall destroy fearfully,
And shall prosper and thrive;
He shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people." Daniel 8:23, 24

"He shall speak pompous words against the Most High,
Shall persecute the saints of the Most High,
And shall intend to change times and law.
Then the saints shall be given into his hand
For a time and times and a half a time." Daniel 7:25
(3 1/2 years)
 
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Ronald

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Do you remember the movie the Beautiful Mind? Russell Crow played a genius who thought the government hired him to decipher codes. Then later you saw his work room with this delusional stuff on the wall. He was secretly, (in his own mind), meeting with imaginary people and coming up with all this imaginary top secret stuff, which only he was able to see. I think he had multiple personality disorder/ schizophrenia . Well, it ended well. He realized his insanity and figured out how to differentiate between his hallucinations/ imaginary people and mission with reality. His wife stuck with him till the end and he was able to finally contribute to society and the university once he was stable.
I kind of feel like some people try to decipher Biblical scripture in the same way sometimes.:scratch:
 
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Revealing Times

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I attended a small group on Thursday and the topic was Antichrist and end times.

The leader explained something I never heard about before yet I’ve grown up hearing something different. He was explaining how during the rapture, Christians go with God and he casts Satan away. Then we come back with God on white horses and come back to “earth”, for 1000 years. God releases Satan where he’s allowed to try and deceive us again. And those Christians who he’s able to deceive will be cast out and the ones who remain will then go to the new earth that is described in the Bible.

But... I have never heard before that After we die or are raptured, that Satan would be allowed to have another go at us? I always thought/believed that once we die and if we accepted Christ into our hearts, that was it. That we would then be in heaven with God forever. So, is it really true that after we die, we’ll be subjected to Satan’s deceitfulness for another 1000 years and that God would cast us out then if any choose to be deceived by Satan?
The Church is Raptured pre-tribulation. We go to Heaven, Marry the Lamb and return as Conquerors with Jesus thus the "White Horse Symbolism" which is why the Anti-Christ is seen as on a White Horse, it has ZERO to do with imitating Christ Jesus, hes a Conqueror going forth to conquer and taking Peace from the world is the Red Horse.

The Beheaded under the Alter in Seal #5 are told they must wait until their fellow brothers are killed in like manner as the were, so they do not go to Heaven and are not seen in Rev. 7:9, that is the Church in Heaven that came out of the Great Tribulation Period as in 2000>7. The Church Age was Tribulation also, and 2000 is Greater than 7, men confuse the scriptures, not God.

Those Beheaded in Rev 20:4 who DID NOT TAKE THE MARK of the Beast live and rule on earth for 1000 years, not those of us who were Raptured to Heaven. I assume we go back to help complete the New Jerusalem, thus we are in New Jerusalem as it descends thus its called the Bride as it Descends.

Those that Satan tempts are the off spring of Humans, not those of us who have already Married the Lamb and received White Robes/NEW Bodies.

The Wicked TARES are Killed (bundled into graves) where they will be Judged in 1000 years at the Second Resurrection (Death). The Wheat is Israel who grow together with the Wicked until the end. God will gather them unto his barn and Jesus then rules from Jerusalem for 1000 years. These MEN have to be tempted to see where their loyalties lie, we can't have further rebellion in heaven.
 
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BABerean2

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The Church is Raptured pre-tribulation.


Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

.
 
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Revealing Times

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10 Commandments times 10 Commandments times 10 Commandments = 1000
(Exodus 32:19, Exodus 34:28, Joshua 8:32 = Deu. 17:18-20)

That is not the language God uses, humanity is not designed to understand God, humanity is designed only to identify with God's Will at best, that is the purpose of the gospel's program. Were not equipped, designed to, or facilitated in this universe and its dimensions, to co-relate hyperdimensional tables of light, to field and dimension, in the scale of articulation in complexity. (Regardless of your disposition that is the gospel's law).

(This is a better Answer from God's Law about the figure of "1000")

DANIEL 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Time = 70 Generations of God
Times = "70x7" Generations from God
Half a Time = 50 Generations for God as a Witness
(This is "a day for 1000 year, a 1000 years for a day, in God's Eyes)

70 x 7 x 50 = 24500 (yes? , the answer is no, God modified the Law)

70 x 7 x 0 (ZERO not 50) = 0, not 1000 years, but instead Zero!
(God invalidated the 50 Generations by Destroying Sodom and G. with Fire)

The 42 Generations of Matthew's Genealogy is not a substitute for God, "1000 Years", doesn't mean anything at all with God, it is only a parable about his discernment, nothing at all more then that.

(God did call, or, refer to the Contradictions of the Gospel's Law as "1000", but that can be true of anything. The Literal Answer is, it has no value, "Joseph the Blessing's" or "True Unified "Field" is not natively apart of this Universe or its Dimensions, that is an argument God removed, or designed out, or designed without this argument, so you can understand now? What God is referring to, his use of "Joseph the Blessings" in his discernment, in a variety of ways, or simply as a reference to the 10 commandments, 10 tribes stolen or accusation of stealing, and 10 wise/foolish virgins) (Nothing more, nothing at all)

(your other question, your pride and pleasure is not a answer for God, regardless of how much pain you are allowed for violating me, it doesn't mean anything, it only represents what you are allowed to do to me, in how much pain God is allowing you to feel, in "pain for pain", if you want to get down to it, "1000 years" doesn't mean anything, its a conviction of the dead, its only a parable, nothing more)



(once seven or so more billion lives are euthanized, gone, done away it, things will become clear for the very small geographic population, genetic population, left living, and it isn't much, without a sign of divorce, the discernment for God is at default, that is the city of philadelphia only. right now, the best argument I can understand is still, t-minus 2300 days from 12/21/2017, according to the bible, prophecy, and the ancient generations without sin)

? (SEALS, don't denote 1000 years, if 1000 years has no value at all)
(this is probably a more christian answer, but remember this, the numeral values in the gospel's law, most of them don't have literal value, but things can be said about them) (if that is true, then.......) (Mass Murder in Parenthesis)

1. God sent Abraham into Captivity (in Canaan)
2. Egypt took the Jews into Captivity
3. Babylon took the Jews into Captivity
4. Rome took the Jews into Captivity
5. Jesus taught Divorce and Circumcision (no more jews and gentiles)
6. God uses his Angels to Witness for 42 Months (Parable)
7. God uses Moses and the Saints to Witness for 42 Months (Parable)

God doesn't use a "people" specifically in the New Testament, if you believe God is only using the jewish people or jerusalem, then you need to think about that, if that position is christian or something else.......................You can understand the SEALS OF GOD, based on the Giving of the Gospel's Law, and the completion of that law. This doesn't have to be a fancy argument, just the clear and simple truth.

(God removed 50 Generations, and 42 Generations are not a substitute, because that is true, God is still the Witness, but a "sign or a vision" is not a requirement or prerequisite of the Gospel's Law, you are not entitled to a judgment from God for 70 years, nor are you entitled to a judgment from God for 7 years, you are not entitled to a Cosmic Shift, or a Pole Shift, or a Magnetic Field shift ......................... you are only entitled to the instant death of billions and 5 months of judgment as apart of the seed population for a small geographic area)

(because God views "Generations" more then God views kingdoms, as in years or reigns, 2000 Years form Jesus Christ, does not measurement the length of a SEAL effectively in God's Eyes........................remember this earth and universe, is not very old at all, God has no need for it, for these low dimensions, or for your pride and pleasure, but God has need for prayers and the faithful, because that is the design of the gospel's law, for your judgment)

(tomorrow 10 hours walk in the city of philadelphia for public safety and for the humane remedy of life process until God completes the action, for this earth, you should be grateful for that, grateful that god has not allowed those genetic lines to prevail against me, and complete your euthanasia, but be grateful, for any force used against me, as we continue to see what is necessary in terms of euthanasia)
Unintelligible !!
 
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Ronald

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That is not the language God uses, humanity is not designed to understand God, humanity is designed only to identify with God's Will at best, that is the purpose of the gospel's program. Were not equipped, designed to, or facilitated in this universe and its dimensions, to co-relate hyperdimensional tables of light, to field and dimension, in the scale of articulation in complexity. (Regardless of your disposition that is the gospel's law).

We are made in the image of God. This means we have a soul and a spirit. Our soul is composed of mind, will, emotions, and personality ( which is a range of habits). God adds to this talents, abilities unique with each individual. His WORD was given to man in order for us to understand who we are, who He is and what His will is for us. He is the Designer and to say that He designed us inadequately is false. Now, we are all born in sin, therefore blind to God spiritually and need to be quickened, 'BORN AGAIN'. When He draws us to Himself, He calls us, opens our eyes so we can see -- He enables us spiritually to understand Him.

DANIEL 12:7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which [was] upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that [it shall be] for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these [things] shall be finished.

Time = 70 Generations of God
Times = "70x7" Generations from God
Half a Time = 50 Generations for God as a Witness
(This is "a day for 1000 year, a 1000 years for a day, in God's Eyes)

70 x 7 x 50 = 24500 (yes? , the answer is no, God modified the Law)

All scholars agree that a time (1 year) + times (2 years) + 1/2 time (1/2 year) = 3 1/2 years.
At this point I have to tell you, you need to drop your numerology or whatever you call this abstract view! It is very disturbing and damaging, pulling you away from God not closer to Him!
I do take back the Beautiful Mind analogy, you are not a genius!
Find a good church, a good pastor and put aside all this weird stuff! Sit back and listen, take notes, for a few years ... and pray.
*** But before you do that. I think it's best to consider your salvation.
Are you saved?????????? Did the Holy Spirit confirm this with you?
Do you believe that Jesus died for your sins, rose on the third day according to the scriptures (not numbers)?
Have you been washed with the blood of Christ. Did He forgive your sins?
It is very crucial that one is saved before he can understand scripture, for all scripture is spiritually discerned. Just throw away all this numbers and equations -- they don't mean anything!


The 42 Generations of Matthew's Genealogy is not a substitute for God, "1000 Years", doesn't mean anything at all with God, it is only a parable about his discernment, nothing at all more then that.

This is unintelligible. Some advice: Pick one topic, maybe just a few verses and talk only about them and leave your abstract numbers out of it!

(God did call, or, refer to the Contradictions of the Gospel's Law as "1000", but that can be true of anything. The Literal Answer is, it has no value, "Joseph the Blessing's" or "True Unified "Field" is not natively apart of this Universe or its Dimensions, that is an argument God removed, or designed out, or designed without this argument, so you can understand now? What God is referring to, his use of "Joseph the Blessings" in his discernment, in a variety of ways, or simply as a reference to the 10 commandments, 10 tribes stolen or accusation of stealing, and 10 wise/foolish virgins) (Nothing more, nothing at all)

Contradictions of Gospel's Law ... 1000??? Joseph the Blessings?? Where did you get this off the wall abstract stuff?

(tomorrow 10 hours walk in the city of philadelphia for public safety and for the humane remedy of life process until God completes the action, for this earth, you should be grateful for that, grateful that god has not allowed those genetic lines to prevail against me, and complete your euthanasia, but be grateful, for any force used against me, as we continue to see what is necessary in terms of euthanasia)

How strange. You think God will annihilate 7+ billion people in the Great Tribulation.
Newsflash: The remnant of those written in the Book of Life is 1/3 of the world population. Currently, there are 2.42 billion Christians - that's just about 1/3 or 7.4 billion. We are close. Please, find a good Church, GET SAVED and you find some sanity and peace ... AND DROP THE NUMBERS GAME.
 
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Revealing Times

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Rev 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.


Rev 12:11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.

.
I don't usually reply to you because I see you as entrenched in positions and most of them just not based in what I perceive as reality, then, from my experience you like to tag team with your buddy and mock anyone's position that goes against yours, and since I see you as wrong on just about everything its not worth my time fighting upstream against an entrenched believer, I let them go their merry way.

But I want to point this here out as one of the chief reasons you do not get things right. You put everything in scriptures on the back burner for scriptures you take out of context. The DEAD that will be Judged are the Beheaded who die during the Tribulation, the ones who missed the Rapture because they were not right with the Lord, and the dead who will also be Judged 1000 years later. They will be killed and bundled into graves to be Judged in 1000 years.

Rev. 11 is about the Two-witnesses ministry, it starts at the 1335 and runs for 1260 days, the two-witnesses die, then there is 75 days left until Jesus returns. Thus the 1335 is the Two-witnesses turning Israel back unto God.

Rev. is not in Chronological order.
 
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BABerean2

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The DEAD that will be Judged are the Beheaded who die during the Tribulation, the ones who missed the Rapture because they were not right wit the Lord, and the dead who will also be Judged 1000 years later. They will be killed and bundled into graves to be Judged in 1000 years.

You seem to be saying that when the text of Revelation 11:18 says it is "the time of the judgment of the dead", the text does not mean what it says.

Christ spoke of the bodily resurrection and judgment of all the dead in John 5:27-30.

How many judgments of the dead do you find in the New Testament?

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;




We do agree on one point.
The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.
 
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Marilyn C

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I attended a small group on Thursday and the topic was Antichrist and end times.

The leader explained something I never heard about before yet I’ve grown up hearing something different. He was explaining how during the rapture, Christians go with God and he casts Satan away. Then we come back with God on white horses and come back to “earth”, for 1000 years. God releases Satan where he’s allowed to try and deceive us again. And those Christians who he’s able to deceive will be cast out and the ones who remain will then go to the new earth that is described in the Bible.

But... I have never heard before that After we die or are raptured, that Satan would be allowed to have another go at us? I always thought/believed that once we die and if we accepted Christ into our hearts, that was it. That we would then be in heaven with God forever. So, is it really true that after we die, we’ll be subjected to Satan’s deceitfulness for another 1000 years and that God would cast us out then if any choose to be deceived by Satan?

Hi sk,

God`s word tells us that when the Body of Christ comes to maturity by the Holy Spirit, then we shall be caught away and taken to the third heaven, (angelic realm) where we shall rule and reign with Christ. During the Tribulation we shall be judging fallen angels and the world system.

The millennium is the Lord`s rule through Israel who have been promised that they would rule the world. That was what they should have done, but obviously didn`t. The Lord will enable them to do so. This period of time, without Satan, will be blessed but people`s carnal natures still cause many to rebel. Thus man has been given every opportunity to obey God. The final rebellion will be quickly dealt with.

God purpose is for Christ to rule in every realm. And in those realms will be those who have been promised that inheritance. This is how it will be in the New heavens and New Earth.

The third heaven - the Body of Christ.
The Universal realm - the New Jerusalem, the OT saints.
The earth - Israel ruling over the nations.

regards, Marilyn.
 
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Revealing Times

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You seem to be saying that when the text of Revelation 11:18 says it is "the time of the judgment of the dead", the text does not mean what it says.

Christ spoke of the bodily resurrection and judgment of all the dead in John 5:27-30.

How many judgments of the dead do you find in the New Testament?

2Ti 4:1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom;




We do agree on one point.
The Book of Revelation is not in chronological order.

.

The 1st Resurrection are the Dead in Christ and the living who are taken to Heaven to marry the Lamb and return with him in Rev. ch. 19 which is a Parenthetical Citation unto itself about the Marriage and Marriage Supper (Armageddon carnage).

It is also the Dead under the Alter in the 5th Seal who are Judged in the Rev. 20:4 Judgment. That is what Rev. 11:18 means. It goes past the 7th Vial. It is the Rev. 20:4 Judgment, and its also speaking about the coming Judgment of the Wicked in 1000 years, in other words, the wicked are KILLED at Armageddon and they then await the Second Resurrection, or judgment of the wicked dead.

Rev. 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The Bride of Christ comes back from Heaven with Jesus. The Prophets and the Saints of Israel are RAISED and stand in their lot as God told Daniel in the end times.

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up (At the 1260), the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We know these are the Old Testament Saints, we also know the Wicked will be raised in 1000 years, but their fate is of course sealed, as are the Wicked Tares who God/Jesus destroys when he returns to Armageddon.

Jesus RESCUES Israel, that's why the Old Testament Saints are raised when Jesus lands on Mt. Zion, the Church Marry the Lamb, the Old Testament Saints are already married to God the Father or El Shaddia Jehovah. They will be raised when Jesus returns. The Bride of Christ still has to be Married unto the Lamb. God protects us in Heaven, and the Israeli Bride in Petra for 1260 days. Both come to be justified by God in the exact same way, Faith !! That is what it means that all Jews and Greeks/Gentiles are the same, we must all come to God BY FAITH ALONE, nothing we can do will ever justify us, we are justified by believing upon Christ Jesus. Abraham believed in the COMING SEED (Jesus). Jesus brings the 144,000 with him, but that 144,000 is actually ALL ISRAEL, the justified in Faith.

The Bride is with him also. The biggest mistake people make is not understanding, God the Father has a bride (Israel), and so does Jesus Christ the (Church).
 
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Marilyn C

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The Bride is with him also. The biggest mistake people make is not understanding, God the Father has a bride, and so does Jesus Christ.

That is so wrong RT, it is actually nutty. There is no marriage in heaven, as Jesus said.

The word `bride` is a SYMBOL` of the city the New Jerusalem, made up of the righteous OT saints.

Israel is referred to as the wife of God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). God is their husband - the meaning in Hebrew is MASTER.

Marilyn.
 
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Revealing Times

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That is so wrong RT, it is actually nutty. There is no marriage in heaven, as Jesus said.

The word `bride` is a SYMBOL` of the city the New Jerusalem, made up of the righteous OT saints.

Israel is referred to as the wife of God, (Father, Son and Holy Spirit). God is their husband - the meaning in Hebrew is MASTER.

Marilyn.
You are reading the scriptures wrong on this sister. Rev. 19 clearly says the Church Marries the Lamb in Heaven. The New Jerusalem comes down with the Bride in it. Only the Beheaded (Rev. 20:4) stay on earth and serve with Jesus for his 1000 year reign, I think that means the Bride returns to Heaven and thus descends in the New Jerusalem, you don't really think Jesus marries a inanimate object do you?
 
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(just some thoughts)

1st SEAL = 1260 or 42 months
2nd SEAL = 1260 or 42 months
3rd SEAL = 1290 Jews in Egypt (Joseph the Blessings Removed)
4th SEAL = 1335 Jews in Jerusalem (there place) under Rome
5th SEAL = Jesus is 1000, that was revealed
6th SEAL = 2300 Days (Seven Years of Revelation)
7th SEAL = "Three Days and Half" (maybe not literal but close)

That is almost 30 years when added together. You don't really understand what these numbers mean do you sir?

The 1st Seal actually happens at the 1260 Mark or in the middle of the Week, but all of the other 7 Seals and the 7 Trumpets and 7 Vials happen in the next 3.5 years.

As per the 1335, that is the BLESSING (Happiness) of Israel, God sends Elijah and (Moses?) back before the Great and Dreadful (1260) Day of the Lord, Gods Wrath starts as Jesus opens the First Seal. So the Two-witnesses show up 75 days before the 1260 (First Seal/Anti-Christ RELEASED), which is when the power of the holy peoples in Dan. 12 are SCATTERED. Thus they show up 1335 days before the Second Coming.

Thus the 1290 is the False Prophet which we know sets up the Abomination of Desolation BEFORE the Anti-Christ is RELEASED at the 1260. Thus Israel has 30 days to FLEE Judea, those that hear Jesus' voice will flee, those that do not or have not repented will not flee. Thus Jason the High Priest that sold out his brother Onias III and was in favor of Hellenizing Jerusalem, is the exact likeness of the coming False Prophet, he even changed his name from Yeshua to Jason.

The 2300 is 1150 Days, sorry, not 2300 days. Its 2300 EVENING and MORNINGS. That fits inside the Beasts 42 month rule.
 
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BABerean2

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The 1st Resurrection are the Dead in Christ and the living who are taken to Heaven to marry the Lamb and return with him in Rev. ch. 19 which is a Parenthetical Citation unto itself about the Marriage and Marriage Supper (Armageddon carnage).

It is also the Dead under the Alter in the 5th Seal who are Judged in the Rev. 20:4 Judgment. That is what Rev. 11:18 means. It goes past the 7th Vial. It is the Rev. 20:4 Judgment, and its also speaking about the coming Judgment of the Wicked in 1000 years, in other words, the wicked are KILLED at Armageddon and they then await the Second Resurrection, or judgment of the wicked dead.

Rev. 11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

The Bride of Christ comes back from Heaven with Jesus. The Prophets and the Saints of Israel are RAISED and stand in their lot as God told Daniel in the end times.

Dan. 12:1 And at that time shall Michael stand up (At the 1260), the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

We know these are the Old Testament Saints, we also know the Wicked will be raised in 1000 years, but their fate is of course sealed, as are the Wicked Tares who God/Jesus destroys when he returns to Armageddon.

Jesus RESCUES Israel, that's why the Old Testament Saints are raised when Jesus lands on Mt. Zion, the Church Marry the Lamb, the Old Testament Saints are already married to God the Father or El Shaddia Jehovah. They will be raised when Jesus returns. The Bride of Christ still has to be Married unto the Lamb. God protects us in Heaven, and the Israeli Bride in Petra for 1260 days. Both come to be justified by God in the exact same way, Faith !! That is what it mans that all Jews and Greeks/Gentiles are the same, we must all come to God BY FAITH ALONE, nothing we can do will ever justify us, we are justify by believing upon Christ Jesus. Abraham believed in the COMING SEED (Jesus). Jesus brings the 144,000 with him, bit that 144,000 is actually ALL ISRAEL, the justified in Faith.

The Bride is with him also. The biggest mistake people make is not understanding, God the Father has a bride, and so does Jesus Christ.

The Two Brides concept is an effort to make the Two Peoples of God doctrine work, which was brought to America by John Nelson Darby about the time of the Civil War.

Once a person comes to understand that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the whole Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart.


.
 
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Ronald

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("Three Days and a Half" = Literal "DayLight/Function of Star Wormwood Only")
JOB 1:4 And his sons went and feasted [in their] houses, every one his day; and sent and called for their three sisters to eat and to drink with them.
JOB 1:5 And it was so, when the days of [their] feasting were gone about, that Job sent and sanctified them, and rose up early in the morning, and offered burnt offerings [according] to the number of them all: for Job said, It may be that my sons have sinned, and cursed God in their hearts. Thus did Job continually.

OUT ON A LIMB, GRASPING FOR REVELENCE?
Those verses in Job have absolutely nothing to do with the 3 1/2 years of the Great Tribulation. Where are you getting this stuff?

REVELATION 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

This has absolutely nothing to do with the total amount of time in the Great Tribulation.
Time + times + 1/2 time = 3 1/2 years
This is confirmed in other passages IN REV. 11:2, 3 where the amount of time is described in two different ways, FORTY TWO MONTHS AND ONE THOUSAND, TWO HUNDRED AND SIXTY DAYS.
So, 3 1/2 years = 42 months = 1260 days

The two witnesses lay dead in the street for 3 1/2 days after the Anti-Christ kills them. Then they are resurrected and ascend to heaven.


("Three Days and Half" = 14 + 14 + 14 + 14 +14 + 14)
MATTHEW 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David [are] fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon [are] fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ [are] fourteen generations.
MATTHEW 1:18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Irrelevant. Glad you are aware that the Messiah came through the line of Abraham and David -- very good!

1st SEAL = Holy Ghost (BABEL, that judged the Generations without Sin, Cabal)
2nd SEAL = Jewish Captivity in Egypt
3rd SEAL = Jewish Captivity in Babylon
4th SEAL = Jewish Captivity in Rome
5th SEAL = Jesus/God no longer used jews or gentiles (written law completed)
6th and 7th SEAL = "Joseph the Blessings" (Star Wormwood Mother of Jesus)

The Jews had some history of blessings and punishment. Their history has absolutely nothing to do with the Scroll containing seven seals in the book of Revelation. The Scroll is about Judgment Day. Although the Jews were judged in the past, there is no correlation to my knowledge as you are presenting. Did you get this from someone or is it just you're imagination gone array?

(You observed 6 sets of 14 Generations? How many Genetic Lines does God demand euthanized, 4 for Genetic Dan the lion or Ezekiel's Angel (solomon's contradiction), that leaves Ephraim (je*s) and Aaron (portion of whit**), remember WW1 AND WW2 involved Aaron and Ephraim, voicing their death sentence...............

You seem to be obsesses with euthanization of the planet.
Listen, God destroyed the earth and almost everyone in it once before. Next time, at least His elect will be saved from His wrath resulting in annihilation. His elect includes both Jews and Gentiles from every nation.
Spiritually, "There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Gal. 3:28
We are in the body, regardless of bloodline.
The only bloodline God will be concerned with in the end times, is that of the remnant Jews. According to Romans 11, a remnant Israel will be saved. They were blinded for a purpose to this day and so their blindness will be removed and they will see their Messiah for Who He is, JESUS. There are currently 14+ million Jews in the world and so 1/3 of them will be enlightened during this time. 4 1/2 million including the 144k from 12 tribes mentioned in Rev. 7 & 14. They will be tested after the Church has been raptured. But they will be protected. However, many of those in Israel will not receive the Lord and therefore suffer God's wrath as will 2/3 of the population of the planet.
 
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Davy

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As I said, Jesus opened the Scroll long ago. Actions did not start to happen. This 30 minute pause after the seventh seal was John's concept of time that represented a separation from the the seven trumpets. Remember 1 day is like 1000 years ...
But here is the key to understand the content and purpose of the seals:
Rev. 6:1 "Now I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals; and I heard one of the four living creatures saying with a voice like thunder, "COME AND SEE".
vs. 3 "...COME AND SEE."
vs. 5 " ... COME AND SEE." and so on.
John was given a vision of Jesus opening the scroll but then, the angel said come and see with each seal that is opened to find out what it represents - bringing him to another vision another location and time.
Therefore, the scroll is the playbook. The actions within it don't start until the stage is set and the actors are on stage and the trumpets start to blow. God sees the end from the beginning. John for a glimpse of this mystery as well.

Pretty good explanation. The Seals represent what we are to be 'sealed' with regarding God's sealing by The Holy Spirit in prep for the end. So the Seals represent knowledge of the events of the end, and only Jesus by The Holy Spirit can open those Seals to our minds.

Once the GT begins, the passage of time is 3 1/2 years to include all the events.

"Therefore I will shake the heavens,
And the earth will move out of her place,
In the wrath of the LORD of hosts
And in the day of His fierce anger." Is. 13:13
(the earth moving out of her place means a worldwide earthquake where it shifts off it's axis.
What if it was caused by and asteroid and it pushed the earth closer to the sun - just minutely, that would explain people being scorched by the sun when the fourth bowl is poured out. ?

There's about an 90 mile error between true geographical North and magnetic North (and it varies from that at times). Pilots have a saying when flying long distances, "east is least, and west is best", having to adjust their compass 6 degrees ever so often when flying East, and 8 degrees when flying West. I believe God shook this old earth once before to end Satan's rebellion, and it tilted off its original axis, and He has promised "Yet once more" to shake it again (Hebrews 12:25-29).

"The earth quakes before them,
The heavens tremble;
The sun and the moon grow dark,
And the stars diminish their brightness." Joel. 2:10
(Here we see stars not falling, but diminishing their light as well as the sun and moon "grow" dark.) Whatever the cause of this massive earthquake (which I believe is a worldwide quake), an asteroid, super-volcanic eruption, or God just supernaturally causing it, it will cause mountains to fall, islands to sink, all the tall buildings in every city to crumble and as you can see in the next verse, 7,000 die just in one city.

"In the same hour there was a great earthquake, and a tenth of the city fell. In the earthquake, seven thousand people were killed, and the rest were afraid and gave glory to the God of heaven." Rev. 11:13 (This just prior to Rev. 11:15, the last trumpet)
Read Rev. 6:12 and then read Rev. 16:18 - (very possibly the same quake), which would prove my view of the trumpets and bowls falling within the scroll and the idea of God showing us different vantage points, an extra-dimensional sphere of events.

As the scripture above suggests, the sun and the moon "grow" dark as well as the stars because of 1/3 of the planet being on fire and if not dust from super-volcanic explosions, asteroids, etc.

That event in Joel 2:10 is actually about the coming of the locust army described in that Book, which is the locusts of Revelation 9 on the 5th and 6th trumpets. The next Joel 2:11 event there is Christ coming with His army on the "day of the Lord". 6th Trumpet -2nd Woe represents the time of "great tribulation". 7th Trumpet - 3rd Woe represents Christ's second coming.


Jack Hayford, whom I greatly respect, wrote a book called, E·QUAKE. I learned a bit about Revelation, which my view is partially based on. In it, he also thinks Jesus is the First Horsemen. I used to think so too. John MacArthur said he is only wearing one diadem (crown), whereas when Jesus returns later with His angels, He is wearing many diadems. This White Horseman had a bow (as Satan does, who shoots his arrows at us ) and he is set out to conquer ... that doesn't sound like spreading the gospel.
Aside from this, these horsemen do harm to the earth. It is very likely that these four horsemen are the same angels in Rev. 9:14, 15. In vs. 16 we see with them are 200 million horsemen coming up out of the Abyss as demon locusts to torture mankind for 5 months. They are instructed to kill 1/3 of mankind.

Good summation, but the killing of 1/3 of mankind is about spiritual death, not literal flesh death. That 1/3 does not represent Christ's elect who cannot be deceived. Rev.9:19 reveals the power of the locusts is in their 'mouths'. The 1/3 are killed by what comes out of the locust's mouths. What comes out of one's mouth??? Words! So what the locust army does is help Satan deceive the world (see Rev.12:15 about the waters as a flood out of the serpent's mouth). The rest of the men that were not killed by those plagues from the locust army represent Satan's followers on earth. It's eventually going to fulfill the 3rds mentioned in Zechariah 13:8-9.
 
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Revealing Times

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The Two Brides concept is an effort to make the Two Peoples of God doctrine work, which was brought to America by John Nelson Darby about the time of the Civil War.

Once a person comes to understand that the New Covenant promised to Israel and Judah in Jeremiah 31:31-34 is found fulfilled by Christ during the first century in Hebrews 8:6-13, and Hebrews 10:16-18, and is specifically applied to the Church in Hebrews 12:22-24, and 2 Corinthians 3:6-8, the whole Two Peoples of God doctrine falls apart.


.
Does everything you disagree with come from Darby? Is he your boogeyman? Seems so. I see these as lame tactics myself by people who can't rebut facts. I argue my own understanding, no one else's, its pure laziness to always take this tact. If you actually put in the time as I have, where you can make a INFORMED ARGUMENTS, you would be able to understand these issues, instead you cite what someone else does or doesn't do.

God Married Israel, Jesus will Marry the Church. Both are in the bible, you can close your eyes and cry Darby all you want to brother, because its all you have, you can't make a factual counter argument. The facts are Rev. 19 shows the Church in Heaven marrying the Lamb while the Tribulation is going on. Some people are just not called to understand prophetic uttering's, that is very evident.
 
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