Question about "sola scriptura"

[Wolf_Says]

yeah, and you mis-interpreted it. the OT prophets wrote Scripture and the NT prophets wrote scripture. they were both inspired by God in being led by the Holy Spirit.



the bible is the Word of God. the only voice believers are to listen to is the voice of God which is contained in the bible. anything said that is not written that contradicts what has been written is not from God.

Sorry, I gave historical context, I did not mis-interpret the verse, because my interpretation comes from the very Church that put the Bible together and declared it as Sacred Scripture.

Yes they were led by the Holy Spirit to spread the word of Jesus. They were following the commands of Jesus to go and make disciples of all nations.

However, there is no inclination in the verse that Paul is talking about the NT, because Paul had no idea that the NT would come to be as it is, nor his letters becoming a large portion of it. Paul is referring back to the OT, which Timothy knew, and told him that they are inspired by God (accepted) and profitable for teaching, and to equip men for every good work (the laws of God).

The NT was not in circulation, not had any of the apostles thought of making a new book called the NT.

The verse also does not claim SS as you all push for it to claim.

Yes, the Bible is the Word of God, written by members of the Church that Jesus founded, on Peter, and compiled and declared sacred scripture in the 4th century. Followers are to follow the Church that Jesus founded, and the Bible was a part of this purpose for His Church.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Will any Church do, or do you claim that only the Roman Catholic Church should be listened to?

I'd say, rather, that Jesus left us the Holy Spirit to guide us and bind the true Church of Christ as well! This is the understanding I referred to in my original post, but I struggle to make people understand it.

Jesus left us 1 Church, that was founded on Peter as the earthly head, which has been given authority over our salvation by the power of Jesus, which following the Holy Spirit gave the world the Bible, and the correct interpretation of the scriptures.

Depending on who you ask of course, Catholics will say it is the Catholic Church, Orthodox will claim that it is the Orthodox Church (since both go all the way back to the apostles).

So, you can go to any church and obtain a good amount of truth and trust in Jesus, but you will only find the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church. This is not to say that you wont make it to heaven outside the Church, that is definitely NOT my call and I wont make it. Just you will find the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Hebrews 1:1, 2 peter 1:20-21, 2 timothy 3:16-17

2 Thes 2:15
So then, brothers, stand firm and hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter.

who gave us these 'traditions'? what are they? in what way are they different from what we have in scripture?

Matt 18:17
If they still refuse to listen, tell it to the church; and if they refuse to listen even to the church, treat them as you would a pagan or a tax collector.

which is referring to the leaders of the church which are the appointed elders.

what of it?

 

[Thursday]

Hebrews 1:1, 2 peter 1:20-21, 2 timothy 3:16-17



who gave us these 'traditions'? what are they? in what way are they different from what we have in scripture?



which is referring to the leaders of the church which are the appointed elders.

what of it?

The Church gave us these traditions. For example, which books belong in the New Testament? Ask the Church.

Of course it is referring to the leaders of the Church. Which Church? Jesus makes it clear that there is only one Church and that we should know who the leaders are. Who is the leader of your Church and is he a successor of the apostles?

The apostles appointed successors to be bishops. Every Catholic Bishop has had hands laid upon him in prayer by a bishop before him. This chain goes all the way back to the apostles.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Sorry, I gave historical context, I did not mis-interpret the verse, because my interpretation comes from the very Church that put the Bible together and declared it as Sacred Scripture.

in other words, circular reasoning. Jesus declared what was scripture long before romanism ever did as His Holy Spirit led the prophets and apostles to write His words for the church.

However, there is no inclination in the verse that Paul is talking about the NT, because Paul had no idea that the NT would come to be as it is,

didn't have to, as the same thing that made the OT scriptures the Word of God is the same thing that made the gospels, acts, and the epistles the Word of God. they were all led by the Holy Spirit to write God's words.

So, you can go to any church and obtain a good amount of truth and trust in Jesus, but you will only find the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church. This is not to say that you wont make it to heaven outside the Church, that is definitely NOT my call and I wont make it. Just you will find the fullness of truth in the Catholic Church.

[Staff edit]

there's no difference in people holding to a bunch of different interpretations and a bunch of people holding to one wrong interpretation. Consolidating everyone under one huge error brings us no closer to the truth.

 

[JohannaSK]

Jesus only started one Church and he promised the leaders of his Church that the Holy Spirit would lead them into all truth.

So, if two Churches teach contradictory doctrines, one or both must not not be the Church Jesus started, right?

Of course: there's no contradiction in the Holy Spirit who binds Christians around the world as the true Church of Jesus Christ (the Body of Christ, the Bride).

The Church Jesus "started" is bound by the Holy Spirit, who can be recognized by the principle of the gospel truth.

(my apologies for getting off-topic)

 

[Thursday]

Of course: there's no contradiction in the Holy Spirit who binds Christians around the world as the true Church of Jesus Christ (the Body of Christ, the Bride).

The Church Jesus "started" is bound by the Holy Spirit, who can be recognized by the principle of the gospel truth.

(my apologies for getting off-topic)

There are many contradictions taught by protestants [staff edit]. For example, you can find protestant churches that teach:

1) Baptism is necessary for salvation
2) Baptism is unnecessary for salvation
3) Salvation is by faith alone
4) Salvation is not by faith alone
5) Speaking in tongues is a necessary sign of salvation
6) Speaking in tongues is of the devil
7) Infant baptism is valid
8)Infant baptism is invalid
9) A man is predestined to heaven or hell before birth
10) A man's actions on earth determine his eternal home
etc.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

The Church gave us these traditions. For example, which books belong in the New Testament? Ask the Church.

being that Rome includes the apocrypha I suppose they don't know either.

Of course it is referring to the leaders of the Church. Which Church?

there is only one church comprising many congregations of believers that are led by qualified elders and teachers of the word. all united by one truth which is God's Word; the bible.

The apostles appointed successors to be bishops. Every Catholic Bishop has had hands laid upon him in prayer by a bishop before him. This chain goes all the way back to the apostles.

they appointed those who were qualified to teach the biblically based traditions that the apostles gave them and they have no authority to add to what was given to them.

 

[Thursday]

they appointed those who were qualified to teach the biblically based traditions that the apostles gave them and they have no authority to add to what was given to them.

Exactly. That's the Catholic Church. Nor could they remove Christian teachings or scriptures, like the deuterocanonical scriptures that Luther removed.

 

[Wolf_Says]

in other words, circular reasoning. Jesus declared what was scripture long before romanism ever did as His Holy Spirit led the prophets and apostles to write His words for the church.

Please show how what I stated is circular reasoning when in itself SS is circular reasoning. So Jesus declared what books were to go into the NT of the Bible? Please show me where as that is very interesting.

didn't have to, as the same thing that made the OT scriptures the Word of God is the same thing that made the gospels, acts, and the epistles the Word of God. they were all led by the Holy Spirit to write God's words.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Yes the Holy Spirit led the apostles to writing the books and letters to prevent it from error, however they WERE NOT called sacred scripture, especially to the Jews and Gentiles who had converted to Christianity. The only thing at this time period that was called sacred scripture was the OT. This is the scripture that Paul was talking about, because it was also the only scripture that Paul knew.

The Apostles used the OT to spread Christianity across the world. Thus Paul is talking about the OT.

[Staff edit].

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Exactly. That's the Catholic Church. Nor could they remove Christian teachings or scriptures, like the deuterocanonical scriptures that Luther removed.

Rome has no authority to add them either as they're not a part of scripture as they are in conflict with the cannon.

 

[Thursday]

Rome has no authority to add them either as they're not a part of scripture as they are in conflict with the cannon.

Those are the scriptures Jesus read. They were always part of the Christian faith.

In fact, they were included in the first King James version.

Here's a good list of references to these books in the New Testament:

Deuterocanonical References in the New Testament

 

[Wolf_Says]

being that Rome includes the apocrypha I suppose they don't know either.

The "apocrypha" was included in the very first Holy Bible as it was declared sacred scripture in the late 4th century. It stayed in the Bible until Luther tore it out because it was not in the Hebrew bible(which actually came about after the death of Jesus). It was however, in the Septuagint that the apostles used heavily to spread the life of Jesus.

The only reason the books were not in the Hebrew Bible is due to either 1) no hebrew original of the book could be found or 2) because the Jews feared greek intrusion on their religion and culture.

there is only one church comprising many congregations of believers that are led by qualified elders and teachers of the word. all united by one truth which is God's Word; the bible.

Yes so many denominations cannot even agree on the purpose of baptism.

 

[Wolf_Says]

Rome has no authority to add them either as they're not a part of scripture as they are in conflict with the cannon.

Rome did not add them, as they were in the original Holy Bible as we know of it today. Without Rome, you would have no Bible.

It was Luther that took them out, then tried to take out James and a few other books that we all agree on. So if Luther was right with taking out those 7 books, why all of a sudden was he NOT right with the other books he tried to take out as well??

I am confused by that.

 

[JohannaSK]

There are many contradictions taught by protestants [staff edit]. For example, you can find protestant churches that teach:

1) Baptism is necessary for salvation
2) Baptism is unnecessary for salvation
3) Salvation is by faith alone
4) Salvation is not by faith alone
5) Speaking in tongues is a necessary sign of salvation
6) Speaking in tongues is of the devil
7) Infant baptism is valid
8)Infant baptism is invalid
9) A man is predestined to heaven or hell before birth
10) A man's actions on earth determine his eternal home
etc.

I'm not clinging on to "The Protestant Church" (does something like that even exist?), but by the true Church of Christ I mean those people who are bound together by the Spirit of God. They believe that:

God was born a man in the Son, Jesus Christ, atoned for our sins on the cross of Golgatha and rose from the dead! Those who believe in Jesus as their Savior (from sin and death) and follow Him as their Lord will be saved.

This was very briefly expressed, but in essence this is what it all comes down to.

No parish register here on earth (be it the register of Catholic Church, Orthodox Church or some Protestant Church) is the true Church register, but the Book of Life is, and it's in Heaven! It's the Book of the Lamb who was slaughtered for us.

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Please show how what I stated is circular reasoning when in itself SS is circular reasoning. So Jesus declared what books were to go into the NT of the Bible? Please show me where as that is very interesting.

Rome said it's true so it's true, making Rome infallible, something that only God is.

He declared it in the very verse you use to say that peter was the first pope when he gave the 12 the ability to bind and lose. what they wrote in the epistles is binding on the church.

I think you are misunderstanding what I am saying. Yes the Holy Spirit led the apostles to writing the books and letters to prevent it from error, however they WERE NOT called sacred scripture

but they WERE 'sacred scripture' because they were led by the Spirit to write God's words for the church. the fact that people didn't recognize this is irrelevant. People didn't recognize Jesus as the coming messiah either, doesn't mean He wasn't.

[Staff edit].

 

[S.O.J.I.A.]

Rome did not add them, as they were in the original Holy Bible as we know of it today. Without Rome, you would have no Bible.

It was Luther that took them out, then tried to take out James and a few other books that we all agree on. So if Luther was right with taking out those 7 books, why all of a sudden was he NOT right with the other books he tried to take out as well??

I am confused by that.

those books were rejected by orthodox jews long before luther was even alive. they were included in the septuigent as important historical documents, not as inspired scripture.

 

[Wolf_Says]

[Staff edit].

Rome said it's true so it's true, making Rome infallible, something that only God is.

He declared it in the vary verse you use to say that peter was the first pope when he gave the 12 the ability to bind and lose. what they wrote in the epistles is binding on the church.

Actually, in that verse Jesus does not. It isn't until later that Jesus gives the rest of the apostles that power, however only Peter has the keys to the kingdom of heaven, and Peter is the rock in which Jesus shall build his church, as in the language that Jesus spoke (Aramaic) Peter is "kepha" which directly translates to "rock". So Jesus is literally saying "I shall call you Kepha, and on this kepha I shall build my Church."

Also, it is the Church's responsibility to spread the word and teachings of Jesus, and the Bible is their book. Therefore, they have the authority, given by Jesus, to correctly interpret the Bible. Therefore, because of the promises to the Church by Jesus, yes they are infallible in their teachings.

but they WERE 'sacred scripture' because they were led by the Spirit to write God's words for the church. the fact that people didn't recognize this is irrelevant. people didn't recognize Jesus as the coming messiah either, doesn't mean He wasn't.

Clearly you just refuse to listen to what I said. So I shall just ask this, "how is that verse a verse that states that we should practice SS?"

[Staff edit].

 

[Thursday]

I'm not clinging on to "The Protestant Church" (does something like that even exist?), but by the true Church of Christ I mean those people who are bound together by the Spirit of God. They believe that:

God was born a man in the Son, Jesus Christ, atoned for our sins on the cross of Golgatha and rose from the dead! Those who believe in Jesus as their Savior (from sin and death) and follow Him as their Lord will be saved.

This was very briefly expressed, but in essence this is what it all comes down to.

No parish register here on earth (be it the register of Catholic Church, Orthodox Church or some Protestant Church) is the true Church register, but the Book of Life is, and it's in Heaven! It's the Book of the Lamb who was slaughtered for us.

Jesus only started one Church.

The questions I listed are keys to salvation. Don't you think he wants us to know the truth about baptism, faith/works, communion, morality, etc.?

I think he does, and I think that is why he started a single Church and gave his Church leaders. To these leaders he gave his authority to bind and loose(ie. make rules) and to forgive sins.

Does your Church forgive sins?

 

[Thursday]

those books were rejected by orthodox jews long before luther was even alive. they were included in the septuigent as important historical documents, not as inspired scripture.

Orthodox Jews rejected those books because many contained prophecies of Christ.

The Jews of Jesus's time used these books as scripture.

For example:

1 Cor 15:29
Now if there is no resurrection, what will those do who are baptized for the dead? If the dead are not raised at all, why are people baptized for them?


What scripture is Paul referencing here?