Question about Mother Mary

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malckiah

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Ah, yes.....that wonderful man-made repititous prayer. Well, as the Lord Himself said.....When you pray...do not use vain repetitious prayer (Matt 6:7)........and also, When someone said to Jesus...."blessed is the womb that bore you." Then Jesus said..."Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and do it!" (Luke 11:27-28)
 
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Rowan

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Ah, yes.....that wonderful man-made repititous prayer. Well, as the Lord Himself said.....When you pray...do not use vain repetitious prayer (Matt 6:7)........and also, When someone said to Jesus...."blessed is the womb that bore you." Then Jesus said..."Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and do it!" (Luke 11:27-28)

The repetition is far from vain, IMO. People who pray the rosary take it very seriously. Just as one doesn't think it's vain repetition when people pray the Lord's Prayer and the Psalms over and over, such is the case with the Hail Mary.

Mary heard the word of God and did it when she obeyed God by carrying our salvation in her womb :clap:
 
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malckiah

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The repetition is far from vain, IMO. People who pray the rosary take it very seriously. Just as one doesn't think it's vain repetition when people pray the Lord's Prayer and the Psalms over and over, such is the case with the Hail Mary.

Mary heard the word of God and did it when she obeyed God by carrying our salvation in her womb :clap:

They may take it serious, but God doesn't want to hear a repeated bunch of pre-made prayers over and over and over again.......He wants to hear our hearts!

And there is not one single place in The Bible that ever will direct you to pray to mary.
Infact it is very clear that we are to pray to The Father, through Jesus!
And yes, mary did great in obeying God and she was blessed.....but you will never find any scripture that will tell you to venerate or pray to her!

and The Lord said...."In this manner you shall pray."....He never said, pray this exact prayer all the time over and over and over again.
 
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Rowan

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They may take it serious, but God doesn't want to hear a repeated bunch of pre-made prayers over and over and over again.......He wants to hear our hearts!

This is the crux of the matter: You know they aren't expressing their hearts how?

I'm especially curious about this -- if you know how to "heart-read", let me in on this ^_^

And there is not one single place in The Bible that ever will direct you to pray to mary.

Given that she was still on earth when the NT was written, that is to be expected.

Infact it is very clear that we are to pray to The Father, through Jesus!

Of course. It's not as if people stop praying to God once they pray for Mary's intercession. For example, The Lord's Prayer is in the Rosary for a reason.


and The Lord said...."In this manner you shall pray."....He never said, pray this exact prayer all the time over and over and over again.

So the Psalms were written down, never to be sung or prayed again, according to you?

Do you know that there were set hours of prayer in early Christendom? Even in Acts, we see people praying with faith at the set hours and being blessed by God. So...what say you?
 
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malckiah

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This is the crux of the matter: You know they aren't expressing their hearts how?

I'm especially curious about this -- if you know how to "heart-read", let me in on this

No, i cannot read the hearts....only God can, but my point is that God wants to hear from each individuals heart.....individually......not a repetition of a prayer that was created by someone else!

Given that she was still on earth when the NT was written, that is to be expected.
Oh, no you don't......you see, there are books in the new testament that were written probably long after she died.....most of them were not even written until around 65ad and The Revelations is estimated around 90ad......do you think mary was still alive and kicking at 110 years of age......and even if she was .....didn't you ever notice that she is rarely even mentioned after the gospels at all. Not to mention that The Bible is extremely clear on who we are to pray to....God and only God!



Of course. It's not as if people stop praying to God once they pray for Mary's intercession. For example, The Lord's Prayer is in the Rosary for a reason.
It's still repetitious prayer.



So the Psalms were written down, never to be sung or prayed again, according to you?
There is a big difference between scripture and Hail Mary! Not to mention that i never said it was wrong to pray the our Father....but it should'nt be done in repetition all the time. Prayer is to be Spirit led....and so it is not uncomon that scripture will be used in prayer, but that is because that peice of scripture coincides with the persons heart at that time......The Spirit would never lead someone to pray something that is doctrinaly incorrect!
Do you know that there were set hours of prayer in early Christendom? Even in Acts, we see people praying with faith at the set hours and being blessed by God. So...what say you?
If you wish to pray at specific hours....so be it!, but that doesnt mean you can neglect prayer throught the rest of the day!
 
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Rowan

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No, i cannot read the hearts....only God can, but my point is that God wants to hear from each individuals heart.....individually......not a repetition of a prayer that was created by someone else!
What if that's the prayer in their heart?

Oh, no you don't......you see, there are books in the new testament that were written probably long after she died.....most of them were not even written until around 65ad and The Revelations is estimated around 90ad......do you think mary was still alive and kicking at 110 years of age......and even if she was .....didn't you ever notice that she is rarely even mentioned after the gospels at all. Not to mention that The Bible is extremely clear on who we are to pray to....God and only God!
I will consider what you say, but I believe the last book written was actually John's Gospel and not Revelation, but only of a difference of about a year, give or take.

Her little mention in the Gospel is not a testament to her perceived insignificance. The Gospels had the specific purpose of telling about the life of Christ, and even then, her significance cannot be underestimated.

What about the Psalm where they are singing (or praying) to angels?

20 Bless the LORD, you His angels,
Who excel in strength, who do His word,
Heeding the voice of His word.
21 Bless the LORD, all you His hosts,
You ministers of His, who do His pleasure.

--Psalm 103:20-21



There is a big difference between scripture and Hail Mary! Not to mention that i never said it was wrong to pray the our Father....but it should'nt be done in repetition all the time. Prayer is to be Spirit led....and so it is not uncomon that scripture will be used in prayer, but that is because that peice of scripture coincides with the persons heart at that time......The Spirit would never lead someone to pray something that is doctrinaly incorrect!
You seem to putting your own judgment on what counts as Spirit-led...again.

What's doctrinally wrong about the Hail Mary? The Lord was not with her? All generations won't call her blessed? The fruit of her womb Jesus is not blessed?



If you wish to pray at specific hours....so be it!, but that doesnt mean you can neglect prayer throught the rest of the day!

Thanks for the advice :)
 
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malckiah

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What if that's the prayer in their heart?
If they are praying to anyone other than God, then it is in vain!



Her little mention in the Gospel is not a testament to her perceived insignificance. The Gospels had the specific purpose of telling about the life of Christ, and even then, her significance cannot be underestimated.
You have NO scriptural support for praying to Mary just as Outofdarkness said.....that closes the case!

What about the Psalm where they are singing (or praying) to angels?

20 Bless the LORD, you His angels,
Who excel in strength, who do His word,
Heeding the voice of His word.
21 Bless the LORD, all you His hosts,
You ministers of His, who do His pleasure.

--Psalm 103:20-21
This isnt praying to angels.....where did you get that idea? You are taking this out of context.




What's doctrinally wrong about the Hail Mary? The Lord was not with her? All generations won't call her blessed? The fruit of her womb Jesus is not blessed?

The Fact that no one should be praying to mary to begin with! That's what's wrong with it!


God Bless You!
 
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ephraimanesti

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They may take it serious, but God doesn't want to hear a repeated bunch of pre-made prayers over and over and over again.......He wants to hear our hearts!

MY DEAR BROTHER,

The point is, of course, that in TRUE prayer, our hearts areCOMPLETELY in tune and in FULL agreement with the Prayer--whether the prayer is written or improvised.

"Pre-made" prayers, as you call them, in the Orthodox Church are almost completely written by Saints or are taken from Scripture. The "Hail Mary" is in the later category. You are right that if these prayers are just rattled off without full mental focus and full heart involvementf they are meaningless. However, if our whole being participates in this--or any other "pre-made" prayer written by a Saint or taken from Scripture--the blessings accruing to the one praying are beyond measure. Through these prayers, God indeed does hear our hearts and blesses us accordingly!


ephraim
 
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ephraimanesti

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"THE HEAVENS WERE ASTONISHED AND STOOD IN AWE, AND THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, MAID, WERE SORE AMAZED, FOR GOD APPEARED BODILY TO MANKIND AS VERY MAN.
AND LO, THY WOMB HATH PROVED TO BE VASTER AND MORE SPACIOUS THAN HEAVEN'S HEIGHTS.
FOR THIS, O THEOTOKOS, THE CHOIRS AND ASSEMBLIES OF MEN AND ANGELS MAGNIFY THY NAME."


--ODE NINE--Heirmos​
 
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ephraimanesti

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rather.....Blessed be The Lord God Almighty...for He ALONE is worthy of praise!!!!

"From countless trials and afflictions, grievous woes, and from misfortunes of life have I been delivered by thy might strength, O spotless and immaculate Maid.
I extol and I magnify thine immeasurable sympathy, and the loving care that thou has for me, and I shall not cease from making known most manifestly thy great deeds."

--THE GREAT SUPPLICATORY CANON TO THE MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS
Ode I
 
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rather.....Blessed be The Lord God Almighty...for He ALONE is worthy of praise!!!!
Amen Brother! I am guna crack out so sripture now if you don't mind...

"7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him." MATT 6: 7 - 8

"6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" JOHN 14:6

""10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."" MATT4:10

OR MY PERSONAL FAV:

"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments." DEUT 5:8 - 10 (BOLD ADDED BY ME)

I would like to see any of you dare argue the last quote invaild! BY all means I am not stopping you but you would be trying discredit the very WORDS FROM THE ALMIGHTYS MOUTH (even though the bible is just that)! IF you do, then well, I'll pray for mercy and forgivness for you!
 
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ephraimanesti

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Amen Brother! I am guna crack out so sripture know if you don't mind...
"7And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him." MATT 6: 7 - 8
"6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" JOHN 14:6
""10Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only."" MATT4:10
OR MY PERSONAL FAV:
"You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth beneath or in the waters below. 9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the LORD your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me, 10 but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments." DEUT 5:8 - 10 (BOLD ADDED BY ME)
I would like to see any of you dare argue the last quote invaild! BY all means I am not stopping you but you would be trying discredit the very WORDS FROM THE ALMIGHTYS MOUTH (even though the bible is just that)! IF you do, then well, I'll pray for mercy and forgivness for you!


Hush!


"An Angel, and the chiefest among them, was sent from Heaven to cry:
'REJOICE'! to the Mother of God.
And beholding Thee, O Lord, taking bodily form, he stood in awe, and with his bodiless voice he cried aloud to her such things as these:
REJOICE, thou through whom joy shall shine forth.
REJOICE, though through whom the curse shall be blotted out.
REJOICE, thou the Restoration of fallen Adam.
REJOICE, thou the Redemption of the tears of Eve.
REJOICE, Height hard to climb for human thought.
REJOICE, Depth hard to explore, even for the eyes of Angels.
REJOICE, for thou are the Throne of the King.
REJOICE, for thou sustainest the Sustainer of all.
REJOICE, star that causeth the Sun to appear.
REJOICE, womb of the Divine Incarnation.
REJOICE, thou through whom creation is renewed.
REJOICE, thou through whom the Creator becometh a babe.
REJOICE, THOU BRIDE UNWEDDED!

 
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Shush!


"An Angel, and the chiefest among them, was sent from Heaven to cry:
'REJOICE'! to the Mother of God.
And beholding Thee, O Lord, taking bodily form, he stood in awe, and with his bodiless voice he cried aloud to her such things as these:
REJOICE, thou through whom joy shall shine forth.
REJOICE, though through whom the curse shall be blotted out.
REJOICE, thou the Restoration of fallen Adam.
REJOICE, thou the Redemption of the tears of Eve.
REJOICE, Height hard to climb for human thought.
REJOICE, Depth hard to explore, even for the eyes of Angels.
REJOICE, for thou are the Throne of the King.
REJOICE, for thou sustainest the Sustainer of all.
REJOICE, star that causeth the Sun to appear.
REJOICE, womb of the Divine Incarnation.
REJOICE, thou through whom creation is renewed.
REJOICE, thou through whom the Creator becometh a babe.
REJOICE, THOU BRIDE UNWEDDED!
NO I will not SHUSH!

You may try and silence me or drown me out with the lengthy words of your quote, but you cannot drown out or silence the Word of God.

Yes, The Sword of the Spirit is like a fire that burns in my soul! It fills my soul with the power of the Almighty becuase I asked it apon me. It give me the Words to fight my corner, His corner, the ONLY CORNER!

You cannot deny the Word I quoted so you try to silence me, YOU TRY TO SILENCE HIM! You quote your fancy text but I counter it every time with Truth, HIS TRUTH!

May the Lord forgive you and have mercy on you I pray, in the Name of the most Rightous Lamb. Amen!
 
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ephraimanesti

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You may try and silence me or drown me out with the lengthy words of your quote, but you cannot drown out or silence the Word of God.
"Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever; a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.
You love righteousness and hate wickedness; therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions by anointing you with the oil of joy.
All your robes are fragrant with myrrh and aloes and cassia; from palaces adorned with ivory the music of the strings makes you glad.
Daughters of kings are among your honored women;
at your right hand is the royal bride in gold of Ophir."


Psalm 45:6-9)
 
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OutofDarkness

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I'll list the catholic tradition first and then what the Bible has to say about the matter.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Call priests father, e.g., Father McKinley.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.​
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Forbidding the priesthood to marry.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS -
1) It is devilish to forbid God's people to marry when He has given marriage to be received with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy
4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
4:2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron;
4:3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.
2) Peter was married (remember the pope is supposedly continuing the apostolic line through Peter).
Matthew
8:14 And when Jesus was come into Peter's house, he saw his wife's mother laid, and sick of a fever.
Mark
1:30 But Simon's wife's mother lay sick of a fever, and anon they tell him of her.
Luke
4:38 And he arose out of the synagogue, and entered into Simon's house. And Simon's wife's mother was taken with a great fever; and they besought him for her.
3) Paul, a great apostle, remained single; however he made it very clear that he could marry if he wanted to. 1 Corinthians
9:5 Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary never had other children after the Lord Jesus. A perpetual virgin.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary and Joseph indeed had children. They were the Lord's half brothers and sisters for their father was Joseph and mother was Mary.
Matthew
13:55 Is not this the carpenter's son? is not his mother called Mary? and his brethren, James, and Joses, and Simon, and Judas?
13:56 And his sisters, are they not all with us?
Whence then hath this man all these things? Mark
6:3 Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, the brother of James, and Joses, and of Juda, and Simon? and are not his sisters here with us? And they were offended at him.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the queen of heaven.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Worshipping the queen of heaven (which is not the Mary of the Bible) is worshipping another god and it provokes the Lord to anger.
Jeremiah
7:17 Seest thou not what they do in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem?
7:18 The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.
7:19 Do they provoke me to anger? saith the LORD: do they not provoke themselves to the confusion of their own faces?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Mary is the mother of God.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Mary is the mother of the earthly Jesus, not God. Jesus pre- existed from everlasting as God (see John 1:1). When He came to redeem mankind, He laid aside His glory and was made like unto sinful man so that He could take our punishment (Hebrew 2:9). God has no mother. He has lived from everlasting which means He had no beginning.
Isaiah
43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. [If Mary gave birth to God, she'd be God.]
Psalm
93:2 Thy throne is established of old: thou art from everlasting.
Micah
5:2 But thou, Bethlehem Ephratah, though thou be little among the thousands of Judah, yet out of thee shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler [Jesus] in Israel; whose goings forth have been from of old, from everlasting. Philippians
2:6 Who [Jesus], being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
2:7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Pope called Holy Father.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - The term Holy Father is only found one time in the entire Bible. It was when Jesus prayed before He and His disciples went to the garden of Gethsemane. He referred to God the Father as Holy Father. It is blasphemy to call a man by God's name
John
17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.​
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Purgatory, nuns, popes.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - None of these is mentioned in the Bible. It is a sin to add to the Bible.
Proverbs
30:6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
The pope is a man who takes upon himself honor which belongs to no human being. Even the very name by which he allows himself to be called (Holy Father) is highly presumptuous and blasphemous (see above).
One does not need the pope to determine what God's will is. The Bible says that God has given the Holy Ghost to each believer and that He (the Holy Ghost) guides and leads us into all truth. All a believer needs is the Bible and the Holy Ghost to know the will of the Lord. Popery has been treacherous, but worse, each pope has been the blind leading the blind. Jesus said that both will fall into the ditch. Catholics, come out of this system that cannot save and know Jesus for youself, intimate and up-close. NOTE: Purgatory is supposedly a place where a person is purified of sins--even popes supposedly go there. The Bible says that Jesus Christ is the one that purifies us of our sins. Romans 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus.... When a person dies their eternal home is sealed--heaven or hell--no in between. Hebrews 9:27 ...it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Venerating/worshipping images. Pope bows to statues of Mary, people worship the eucharist and have statues/candles in their homes and churches.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - It is idolatry to venerate images. We are not even supposed to make them.
Exodus
20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God...​
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The mass. Through transubstantiation, the wafer/host and the wine supposedly become the actual blood and body of Jesus Christ when the priest prays over them.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus died once for sins, never to be repeated. He sits on the right hand of God and does not reappear in the mass as a mass of blood and flesh.
Hebrews
10:12 But this man [Jesus], after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God;
10:13 From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.
10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.
10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
10:16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
10:17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more.
10:18 Now where remission of these is, there is no more offering for sin.
John
19:30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost. 1 Corinthians
11:24 And when he [Jesus] had given thanks, he brake it [bread], and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.
11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
11:26 For as often as ye eat this bread, and drink this cup, ye do shew the Lord's death till he come (not for the forgiveness of sins or to receive Jesus).
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Saved, in part, by good works.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Good works are the fruits that grow out of being saved. They do not make you saved. An apple does not make its tree an apple tree, it was already an apple tree before any apples appeared. When you see the apples; however, you know what kind of tree it is. If a person is saved, he will shew forth good works because he has the spirit of Christ in him. The good works don't make him saved only the blood of Jesus can do that.
I John
1:7b ...the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
Acts 16:31b
...believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved. Romans
3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:
3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;
3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.
What about James 2:20 "faith without works is dead"?
The kind of faith that saves is a faith that shows forth the works of God. Even devils believe in Jesus and tremble (James 2:19). Many people believe in Jesus but they won't follow Him. They have a faith, but not the kind that saves. If a person has true faith in Jesus, the Holy Ghost dwells in him and will cause good works will show forth in his life. The good works confirm the faith by which the person was saved. James 2:21-23 uses Abraham as an example. Abraham believed God so when God asked him to sacrifice his son Isaac, Abraham, out of his faith in God, offered up Isaac.
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - The church is founded on Peter.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - Jesus Christ is the foundation of the church. Peter was a man like you and me. Jesus called Peter Satan in Matthew 16:23 when Peter rebuked Jesus dying. When Cornelius tried to worship Peter, Peter responded, "Stand up; I myself also am a man." (Acts 10:26). The pope needs to remember Acts 10:26 when he has men bowing to him and kissing his hand like he is worthy of worship.
1 Corinthians
3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Matthew
21:42 Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected [Jesus], the same is become the head of the corner: this is the Lord's doing, and it is marvellous in our eyes?
* * * *
CATHOLIC TRADITION - Confessing sins to a priest. Petitioning saints and Mary.
WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS - We are to confess our sins and needs to God alone.
I John
1:9 If we confess our sins, he [God] is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
Matthew
6:9, 12 After this manner...pray ye: Our Father... forgive us....
1 Timothy
2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus [not Mary, not saints, not priests, not the pope]; I John 2:1, ...And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
* * * *There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. But, i thought i would spare myself the days of writing!
 
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ephraimanesti

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* * * *There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. But, i thought i would spare myself the days of writing!

i do indeed appreciate your consideration in this regard!
ephraim



"O Lord, who blessest those who bless Thee, and sanctifiest those who trust in Thee:
Save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance.
Preserve the fullness of Thy Church.
Sanctify those who love the beauty of Thy house; glorify them in return by Thy divine power, and forsake us not who put our hope in Thee.
Give peace to Thy world, to Thy churches, to Thy Priests, to all those in civil authority, and to all Thy people.
For every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from Thee, the Father of Lights, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, thanksgiving and worship:
To the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen!"


The Prayer Before the Ambo
 
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* * * *There are many other scriptures that could have been used here to testify against the doctrines of the catholic religion. But, i thought i would spare myself the days of writing!

Oh, my Brother what Truth you speak, the Word of God has such power! May you be blessed brother!
 
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ephraim



"O Lord, who blessest those who bless Thee, and sanctifiest those who trust in Thee:
Save Thy people and bless Thine inheritance.
Preserve the fullness of Thy Church.
Sanctify those who love the beauty of Thy house; glorify them in return by Thy divine power, and forsake us not who put our hope in Thee.
Give peace to Thy world, to Thy churches, to Thy Priests, to all those in civil authority, and to all Thy people.
For every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from Thee, the Father of Lights, and unto Thee we ascribe glory, thanksgiving and worship:
To the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit, now and ever and unto ages of ages. Amen!"


The Prayer Before the Ambo

Ephraim, why do you do that? Why do you always post an relevant piece of text at the end of all your posts? You did it earlier when you tried to Shush/Hush me.

Why do you always try to counter the Word of God with the words of men? I am not trying to attack or offend you I am just interested to know why. I doubt many people would take me seriously if I used the lyrics of a Matt Redman or Delirious? song to back up my arguments.

Oh and btw Psalm 45 does not talk about Mary! It is a wedding Psalm.
 
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