Question about Mother Mary

[ephraimanesti]

Why do you always try to counter the Word of God with the words of men? I am not trying to attack or offend you I am just interested to know why.

Because this is Post #181 and everything has been said several times already.

Because the OP question was answered about 175 posts ago.

Because, if you will remember, our Lord severely reprimanded me for excessive arguing and opened my eyes to the futility of it as we discussed before.

Because the Word of God, in addition to what is recorded in the Bible also comes through His Church and its teachings and needs no vindication from a sinner like me.

Because i feel no need to convince you of anything. If you are happy with your walk with God--MAY YOU BE BLESSED!

And most of all because our Blessed Lady needs no defense from me. Her successful and most glorious intercessions on behalf of those who request her prayers to her Son on their behalf speak for themselves for those who have ears to hear.

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"From apostolic times and to our days all who truly love Christ give veneration to Her Who gave birth to Him, raised Him and protected Him in the days of His youth. If God the Father chose Her, God the Holy Spirit descended upon Her, and God the Son dwelt in Her, submitted to Her in the days of His youth, was concerned for Her when hanging on the Cross--then should not everyone who confesses the Holy Trinity venerate her?"

--Saint John of Shanghi and San Francisco

"The turmoils of this life encircle me like unto bees about a honeycomb, O Virgin, and they have seized and now hold my heart captive, and I am pierced with the stings of afflication, Maid; yet be thou, O all-holy one, my defender and helper and rescuer.

"Preserve and protect, O Theotokos, thy servants from every danger; after God do all of us for refuge flee unto thee; a firm rampart art thou and our protection.

"In thy good will, look thou on me, O all-hymned Theotokos; and do thou behold my body's grievous infirmities and and the multitude of my sins, and interceed with your Son that i may be healed."

THE GREAT CANON TO THE THEOTOKOS
Ode Six
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[livingword26]

"From countless trials and afflictions, grievous woes, and from misfortunes of life have I been delivered by thy might strength, O spotless and immaculate Maid.
I extol and I magnify thine immeasurable sympathy, and the loving care that thou has for me, and I shall not cease from making known most manifestly thy great deeds."
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--THE GREAT SUPPLICATORY CANON TO THE MOST HOLY THEOTOKOS
Ode I
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Mat 6:8-13
(8) Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.
(9) After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.
(10) Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.
(11) Give us this day our daily bread.
(12) And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.
(13) And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, forever. Amen.

 

[livingword26]

"The turmoils of this life encircle me like unto bees about a honeycomb, O Virgin, and they have seized and now hold my heart captive, and I am pierced with the stings of afflication, Maid; yet be thou, O all-holy one, my defender and helper and rescuer.

"Preserve and protect, O Theotokos, thy servants from every danger; after God do all of us for refuge flee unto thee; a firm rampart art thou and our protection.

"In thy good will, look thou on me, O all-hymned Theotokos; and do thou behold my body's grievous infirmities and and the multitude of my sins, and interceed with your Son that i may be healed."

THE GREAT CANON TO THE THEOTOKOS
Ode Six
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Psa 22:1-8
(1) To the chief Musician upon Aijeleth Shahar, A Psalm of David. My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me? why art thou so far from helping me, and from the words of my roaring?
(2) O my God, I cry in the daytime, but thou hearest not; and in the night season, and am not silent.
(3) But thou art holy, O thou that inhabitest the praises of Israel.
(4) Our fathers trusted in thee: they trusted, and thou didst deliver them.
(5) They cried unto thee, and were delivered: they trusted in thee, and were not confounded.
(6) But I am a worm, and no man; a reproach of men, and despised of the people.
(7) All they that see me laugh me to scorn: they shoot out the lip, they shake the head, saying,
(8) He trusted on the LORD that he would deliver him: let him deliver him, seeing he delighted in him.

 

[livingword26]

"THE HEAVENS WERE ASTONISHED AND STOOD IN AWE, AND THE ENDS OF THE EARTH, MAID, WERE SORE AMAZED, FOR GOD APPEARED BODILY TO MANKIND AS VERY MAN.
AND LO, THY WOMB HATH PROVED TO BE VASTER AND MORE SPACIOUS THAN HEAVEN'S HEIGHTS.
FOR THIS, O THEOTOKOS, THE CHOIRS AND ASSEMBLIES OF MEN AND ANGELS MAGNIFY THY NAME."

--ODE NINE--Heirmos​

Psa 23:1-6
(1) A Psalm of David. The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.
(2) He maketh me to lie down in green pastures: he leadeth me beside the still waters.
(3) He restoreth my soul: he leadeth me in the paths of righteousness for his name's sake.
(4) Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil: for thou art with me; thy rod and thy staff they comfort me.
(5) Thou preparest a table before me in the presence of mine enemies: thou anointest my head with oil; my cup runneth over.
(6) Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life: and I will dwell in the house of the LORD forever.

 

[livingword26]

Hail Mary, full of Grace,
the Lord is with you;
Blessed art thou among women,
and blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
for thou has born the Savior of our souls!
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Isa 42:8
(8) I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images.

 

[livingword26]

HAIL MARY, FULL OF GRACE
THE LORD IS WITH THEE!
BLESSED ART THOU AMONG WOMEN,
AND BLESSED IS THE FRUIT OF THY WOMB,
JESUS!


"Joy of all that sorrow art thou, and of the oppressed a protectress, and nurture of all the poor, comfort unto the estranged, a staff art thou of the blind, visitation of all the sick, a shelter and succour unto those brought down by pain, helper of orphaned ones:
Mother of God in the Highest art thou, O immaculate Maiden; hasten, i beseech thee, to interceed with thy Son for His sinful slaves.

"I shall not cease from making known most manifestly thy great deeds, O pure Maid of God; for if thou wert not present to intercede in our behalf and importune thy Son and God, who would have aided in delivering us from countless trials and afflictions, grievous woes, and from the many misfortunes of life which attack us poor sinner at all times and from all sides.

"O protection of Christians that cannot be put to shame, mediation unto the Creator most constant:
O despise not the suppliant voices of those who have sinned; but be thou quick, O good one, to come unto our aid, who in faith cry unto theee:
Hasten to intercession with your Son and our God, and speed thou to make supplication, thou who dost ever protect, O Theotokos, them that honour thee."
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--from the Great Canon to the Theotokos

ephraim
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1Ti 2:5-6
(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

 

[ephraimanesti]

1Ti 2:5-6
(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
(6) Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

What you say, of course, is very true. What you miss is that the Man Christ Jesus dearly loves His mother and willingly listens to her petitions on our behalf.

A BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

"It is truly meet to call thee blest, the Theotokos, the ever-blessed and all-immaculate and Mother of our God.
"More honourable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, thee who without corruption gavest birth to God the Word, the very Theotokos, thee do we magnify."

--Axion Estin
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[TheCheat1]

"ONE mediator between God and men" -emphasis mine

 

[livingword26]

What you say, of course, is very true. What you miss is that the Man Christ Jesus dearly loves His mother and willingly listens to her petitions on our behalf.

Is it just Mary and the Catholic Saints that have been given the ability to be omni present and hear all prayers by all Catholics simultaneously? Or is it all who are in heaven?

 

[ephraimanesti]

"ONE mediator between God and men" -emphasis mine

Mary continues to interceed with her Son now, just as she did in Cana--with the same positive results. i have experienced the benefits of her intercessions personally and no amount rhetoric can convince me otherwise. i am not clear why so much time and energy is being wasted on this Thread which should have folded 170 posts ago. Couldn't this time be better spent working on your own spiritual needs rather than worrying about mine?

ephraim

"O Theotokos, thou sovereign Lady blessed by God and mother to His Son:
Cease not praying to thy Son and our Savior in behalf of thy servant, O pure Virgin Maid."

--Theotokion
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[livingword26]

"It is truly meet to call thee blest, the Theotokos, the ever-blessed and all-immaculate and Mother of our God.
"More honourable than the Cherubim, and beyond compare more glorious than the Seraphim, thee who without corruption gavest birth to God the Word, the very Theotokos, thee do we magnify."

--Axion Estin
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I know that you get tired of defending against the same verses and having the same discussions and arguments. But you should know that, from my point of view, prayers like the one above to Mary are extremely offensive to me. Jesus Himself directed His disciples how to pray, and it was not to His mother or anyone else. It was to our God and our God only.

 

[ephraimanesti]

I know that you get tired of defending against the same verses and having the same discussions and arguments. But you should know that, from my point of view, prayers like the one above to Mary are extremely offensive to me. Jesus Himself directed His disciples how to pray, and it was not to His mother or anyone else. It was to our God and our God only.

MY LONG SUFFERING BROTHER,

If you find reading these poems and prayers offensive, what are you doing here and why are you reading them? Self-imposed wallowing in that which one finds offensive seems to me to be of dubious spiritual value.

Note there are no prayers below to be offended by. GO IN PEACE!

A BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

 

[livingword26]

MY LONG SUFFERING BROTHER,

If you find reading these poems and prayers offensive, what are you doing here and why are you reading them? Self-imposed wallowing in that which one finds offensive seems to me to be of dubious spiritual value.

Note there are no prayers below to be offended by. GO IN PEACE!

A BOND-SLAVE OF CHRIST,
ephraim

If it were only so easy. Since this thread is on a "new Christian" forum and addresses questions about Mary specifically, it is my duty to point out the biblical truth, as it has been for those before me and those that will come after me. And the biblical truth is that prayers to anyone but God are offensive.

 

[ephraimanesti]

If it were only so easy. Since this thread is on a "new Christian" forum and addresses questions about Mary specifically, it is my duty to point out the biblical truth, as it has been for those before me and those that will come after me. And the biblical truth is that prayers to anyone but God are offensive.

If you will look back at the original question, you will note that there was no invitation to attack the practice of Christians venerating God's mother much less an invitation for attacks upon the Catholic Church itself. Your "duty", it seems to me, is to keep in mind Saint Paul's question, "WHO ARE YOU TO JUDGE SOMEONE ELSE'S SERVANT? AND HE WILL STAND, FOR THE LORD IS ABLE TO MAKE HIM STAND."(Romans 14:4) You choose not to venerate our Lady--well and good. i would be the last to try to convince you or anyone else to do so. But perhaps your attacks--based on ignorant misconceptions and prejudices--on the beliefs of those who do choose to so venerate God's mother are not as pleasing to God as you have convinced yourself they are.

Might i suggest that you further your spiritual education by taking the time to read Martin Luther's feelings about the Virgin Mary and her place in the Church. This will perhaps help you to avoide making the same mistake the pharisees made--missing the TRUTH because the words got in the way.

ephraim

"WITH ANTHEMS OF THANKSGIVING I GLORIFY AND CHANT PRAISE TO THINE INFINITE MERCY,
AND THY BOUNDLESS MIGHT I CONFESS UNCEASINGLY UNTO ALL;
AND WITH MY SOUL AND HEART AND MIND AND MY LIPS I MAGNIFY AND PROCLAIM THE MANY BENEFACTIONS THAT THOU HAST POURED UPON ME IN THY COMPASSION,
O THOU BRIDE OF GOD."
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ODE NINE
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[TheCheat1]

Offenses come, but woe to he who brings them! -Jesus Christ

That's just it-- Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life-- and no one can come to the Father but through Him. He said whatever we shall ask in His name, He will do for us. He told us that "Our Father in Heaven, hallowed be your name. Your kingdom come, Your will be done, on earth as it is in Heaven. Give us this day our daily bread, and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. Lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Jesus said that whoever would, should stop what he was doing and follow Him.

Paul said that God was no respecter of persons; He has no favorites. He loves me as much as He loves Mary, and neither I nor her will get any special treatment!

Jesus said that He is the only Way, not works, so Mary's work of giving birth to Christ is equal to my feeding a homeless man.

God said, "Let us make man in Our image", so we are all equals!

Jesus said that we are the bride, not Mary, and that we are not worthy of praise, nor is Mary. For Jesus said that when someone sees what you do, they should praise God, not you! Mary is included in this!

The Jews said, "Blessed is He Who comes in the name of the Lord", and Mary did not! They said "Hosanna in the highest", and it was not to Mary!

Jesus said that whoever does His will are His mother and brothers! That's ANYONE who does His will!

Almighty God made it clear from "Let us make man in Our image" that no one was more important or more special than anyone else, no matter what their word or deed.

 

[Rowan]

Malckiah:

You don't really address anything I say and just keep repeating yourself. That's okay, but I don't discuss like that. We can end our convo, because I'll repeat myself, over and over, and it's not worth the wasted space.

So, peace to you.

I do admit I was messing with you on that last point, though. My bad

To 'all' I guess:

It has been my experience that people who really want to know why we believe the way we do will ask us--either personally through PM, at our respective congregational forums on CF, like TAW, OBOB, and STR (select Anglicans do petition Mary and the saints), or they even take the plunge in real life and talk to a priest about it.

In this thread, I just see a lot of straw men that might take years for people to burn. There are arguments against things we don't believe and for things that we do, a complete misrepresentation/lack of understanding.

The truth is we do have a commonality in Christ Jesus. There's no doubt there.

 

[malckiah]

Well, i must be honest as well and say that i have no interest in becoming Catholic....been there, done that....then i got saved! I only wish to open the eyes of those who have been blinded by lies. I wish you the best....God Bless!

 

[VincentBlack]

Ignore this post. I got angry and said things I shouldn't have... Peace be with all of you!

 

[Rowan]

Ignore this post. I got angry and said things I shouldn't have... Peace be with all of you!

Already forgiven. Peace with you as well

 

[ephraimanesti]

Indeed: PEACE BE TO ALL!

AND MAY THIS TIRED OLD THREAD AT LAST REST IN PEACE AS WELL!

ephraim
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