Butch5

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Unlike you I am not beating the air.
1 Corinthians 9:26 Therefore I do not run like someone running aimlessly; I do not fight like a boxer beating the air.
I note that you did not address the scripture I quoted, I doubt if you even read it. You quite evidently do not know what you are talking about. I did not use a logical fallacy. I did not use "aion" to prove that "aion" means eternity and I did not use "aionios" to prove that "aionios" means eternal. I quoted 22 verses where aion/aionios is contrasted with or paired with other adjectives/adjectival phrases which show they mean eternity/eternal.
.....Here is a real world example of what I am talking about. I learned to speak German when I was 12. Several years later I was stationed in Germany. I was having a conversation with someone who did not speak English. She used a word I did not recognize, beinahe, pronounced by-nah-eh. So she tried to explain it "It is not yet 12 o'clcock but it is beinahe 12 o'clock." So I understood beinahe means "almost."
.....You have not and cannot provide one verse where aion/aionios is paired or contrasted with other adjectives/adjectival phrases which show that either one means a finite period.
Now let us look at your out-of-context proof text, again.

24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
(1 Cor. 15:24-25 KJV)
First I do not see the word ‘end” or anything like it in associated with "reign." Does the reign of Jesus end at some time?
Revelation 22:3-5
(3) No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
(4) They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
(5) There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they will reign for ever and ever.
Who is “they” who will reign for ever and ever, vs. 5? Who is on the throne, vs. 4? “God and the lamb” is the they who will reign for ever and ever. Just as the angel said in Luk 1:33 "of the kingdom of the Son of the most high,” vs. 32, “there shall be no end.” Therefore aion in Luk 1:33 means “eternity” not a finite age.
One last point look at the pronoun in your proof text 1 Cor. 15:24-2 and the pronoun in Rev 22:3-5. You do know what a pronoun is don't you?

Well, again, you just claim you didn't commit the fallacy even though it's right there. You accused me of the 'I'm right and your wrong' argument and you just did that here.
 
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FineLinen

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Take 19

You, the proponents of damning our Fathers vast majority to damnation will not fill in the blanks.

Why??

There is one (1) passage of Canon for "everlasting punishment" (Matt.25:46).

This one single verse is the cornerstone for the proponents of unending punishment.

This should be so easy for you!

According to the context of St. Matthew 25, and ONLY the context, please fill in the empty lines.

The foundation for "everlasting punishment" Matt. 25=

1._____________________________________________________________?

2._____________________________________________________________?

3._____________________________________________________________?

4._____________________________________________________________?

5._____________________________________________________________?

“Love knows no limit to its endurance, no end to its trust, no fading of its hope; it can outlast anything. It is, in fact, the one thing that still stands when all else has fallen.” - J.B. Phillips-
 
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Pneuma3

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You've just made statements without evidence. Your interpretation isn't evidence.

I gave evidence. you have given nothing.

What I want is a definition so I know what you're talking about. The definition of Pneuma is wind or breath, that can be found in any lexicon. However, English word spirit is also used as a figurative definition of pneuma. However, since it's figurative it's a figure of speech. You're using it in combination with death. Wind death or breath death make no sense, so you're using a figure of speech. I'm just trying to get you define what it is you're talking about. What is the figure of speech?

I have given it time and again but you are blind to it. Read my two death post again.

You didn't answer the question. " I've pointed out that the word spirit is a figurative use of the word pneuma. That should indicate that when you say the law is spiritual it's a figure of speech. So, what is the figurative meaning?"


Yes, the spiritual body is a figure of speech. Yes we get one.

The second law of thermodynamics has no bearing on the subject as I said. Adam had access to the Tree of Life. With access to the Tree of Life he would not die. Whether the second law of thermodynamics was in place or not he wouldn't die.


I've giving you evidence. Adam was created of physical dust and God told him if he ate of the Tree of Knowledge he would return to dust. That's physical.

It does have bearing because things physically died before Adam ate from the tree.

And you have given no evidence, your opinion that Adam going to dust outside of the garden is a physical death is not evidence, it is just your opinion

You didn't give me evidence, you asked me questions. Yes, the dinosaur and man inhabited the earth at the same time. Man's been on the planet for about 6000 years. I've answered your questions, why won't you answer mine?

And this is why you do not understand the second law of thermodynamics and make science and scripture war against each other. It is people who believe like you that is turning so many people away from scripture and turning them into atheists. Scripture then becomes a laughing stock.

You need to wake up, scripture and science will work hand in hand if understood properly.

What is ironic is you used a day with the Lord is as a thousand years argument when it concerned Adams dying, but yet believe God created the whole cosmos in 6 literal 24 hour days.

It's a metaphor. Paul used death often as a metaphor. Paul also said, 'I die daily'. Do you think he died spiritually every single day? It's a metaphor for his giving up his own desires to follow Christ. He also said that he was alive once and then the law came and he died. Do you think he was spiritually alive and then spiritually dead and then spiritually alive again? It's a metaphor. Did you notice that of all of the places where Paul used the word death he NEVER used the word spiritual with it. The problem is that people come to the Scriptures with dualistic presuppositions. The old man is not a living thing that can be put to death, it's a way of living that has to be stopped, thus to put it to death is a metaphor.

Also, again here you're conflating two different things. The Law that is spiritual is the Law of Moses. The Law the revealed sin is the Law of Moses. There is nothing in Genesis 1 or 2 about a law. You're trying to connect God's statement to Adam and the Mosaic Law, they're different.

It is not a metaphor, Paul died daily to himself. You said you believe we will receive a spiritual body, yet maintain that the spiritual body we obtain is nothing more then a metaphor. Sorry you can't have it both ways.

They are NOT different. I suppose you believe that there was a literal tree of knowledge and a literal tree of life also. In effect you are saying the shadow represents reality instead of looking at that which is the reality to explain the shadow. You are not alone,many look at the shadow as the reality just as you do, thus everything becomes convoluted.
 
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Ronald

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The fact is destruction is closely linked with change and transformation in both the Old and New Covenant.
The Flood destroyed all the wicked > the world except the 8 who survived were not reconciled to God, they were not given a second chance. No God destroyed them and started over with eight. Man was on the planet for 1656 years prior to the Flood. Some men walked with God but most did not and evil spread. Ask yourself, if the all powerful God could not transform the world before destroying it, then what makes you think that after their destruction, He was able to do so forcefully with fire? No sir, they were destroyed. God was sorry He created man to the point of grieving. Why would He be sorry and grieve if He knew was later going to transform them anyways?
Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed. They were wicked. Abraham tried to bargain with God not to destroy these cities: If there were 50 righteous would you destroy them? No. 45? No. 30? No. 20? No? 10? No. There weren't even ten righteous in these cities, so Lot and His family were told to leave.
Listen God does refine character during our lives. But it is clear if there is a calling, a justification, a sanctification, chastising those He loves, it happens during our lives.
Fire will test our works. Those works that were not done by the Holy Spirit through us will be burned up.

That's the point. The fire gets rid of all the flaws, all the unrighteousness and all the worldly works of man apart from God. If a person has not been given righteousness imputed by Jesus, His blood during their lives, then no transformation will take place. All that is in that person is evil, wicked. God has not reconciled that person. Jesus will say, away from Me, I do not know you (meaning He never had a relationship with that person). Therefore they are burned in the fire, destroyed!

Fire, Ronald, Is the essence of God, in it and thru it our God the consuming fire brings the all (the ta panta), and rather than "no more", in fact saves!
One aspect of God is that He is a consuming fire. Mortals could not look upon God, we would burn up because we have sin. So all sinful men who have not been washed by His blood will burn up!

I won't list proof texts, but they do abound, and probably others will take the time to present those in detail.
He won't because his statement is a blatant misconception backed up by his misunderstanding.

I would say that, typically true of him, Paul, gets to the heart of the matter when he writes about every man's work being tried by fire, yet the man, himself, being saved. John, whose theology parallels Paul's more explicit style, with a more implicit style of his own, makes it a point to call the lake in question not only the lake of fire, but also of brimstone, which is an old word for sulfur. With sulfur being a common agent of ceremonial purification in temples of worship in ancient times, I think the association is obvious in the Book of Revelation.
Christians will be tested with fire and all their worldly works apart from God will burn up. However, God worked through them in many ways during their lives and so they will be perfected, resurrected at the last trumpet.
Brimstone/sulfur can be found spewing out of volcanoes. In volcanoes we see lava lakes, the closest conception of what the lake of fire will be. In the end times, 1/3 of the planet will be on fire. From above, it would look like a lake of fire. But after the Millennial Kingdom, the WHOLE PLANET WILL BURN UP ALONG WITH ALL THE UNRIGHTEOUS.



Now, to specifically address the possibility that John means to convey destruction rather than purification, let me say that neither scripture nor science recognizes the destruction of anything in the sense of annihilation, that is, of anything being reduced to a state of absolute nothingness. Destruction does not render anything nonexistent, but rather incapable of carrying out its function, as in the destruction of a tank in warfare. The mass of metal is still there, but it can't function as a tank any longer.
Destruction means to put an end to. He destroyed the world during the flood. He put an end to their lives. Death brings an end to the living. Spiritual death is the same. This concept of death is echoed throughout scripture.

So, what we have in the process of purification by fire is, first, a separation of the object of purification from all that defiles it, all that is foreign to it's intrinsic constitution, and then the removal of the corrupting element(s)...
Correct, all the flaws, the unrighteous, wicked are separated from what is good, of God.
If nothing in that person is of God, nothing will survive!

In the case of death and Hades being cast into the lake of fire and a separating of these foreign elements of corruption from the persons who are subjected to the divine flame, it is clear that the persons are saved; they are delivered from the corruption to which they were subjected, but other scripture indicates that death, that last (ultimate) enemy is not merely discarded, but is swallowed up in victory.
This is a false concept of the refining fire of God concerning His sheep. Hades and Death involve only those who are not His, those who during their lives did not see the LIGHT and receive it.

This brings us to the depth and extent of reconciliation in the economy of God. Certainly, God has reconciled the alienated person to Himself in Christ, that is undeniable in the scripture, but beyond that, God does not defeat death and the place/Hades [the capacity and potential] of death, by merely removing them. He takes alienation, enmity and hostility themselves and reconstitutes them back into the grace out of which they first proceeded. In a word, God defeats his enemies by transforming them into friends.
Speculation, not based on an opinion, a false assumption. This is an example of someone who does not have the Holy Spirit to help them discern scripture!

At the heart of the message of the Book of Revelation is majestic statement of Him who sits upon the throne, "Behold, I make ALL THINGS new." God loses nothing. The loss of anything does not compute when it comes to God. He created good and evil, the prophet said, and in the end, all things return to God that "He might be all in all."
We shall see!
 
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Ronald

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Dear Ronald: God loves because He is love. God loves us not "temporarily", God loves us PERIOD! Love never fails, we fail miserably: God never fails! He draws to the very end, and at the very end is LOVE!

Writings Of John Gavazzoni - Help Of The Helpless

"The whole of created life shall be delivered/ set free from the bondage of corruption.."
Liberal theology. This is the kind of stuff the Utopianism/Marxism is based on. Socialism, everyone should receive the same.
We have a choice to receive Jesus or reject Him and are given many opportunities in life. Those who never heard of Jesus, well, God will judge them based on what they knew. And according to Romans 1, they knew God from the beginning, but chose to go their own way.
"The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, since what may be know about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities - his eternal power and divine nature - have been clearly seen, being made, so that men are without excuse. For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools and exchanged the glory of the immortal God for images made to look like mortal man and birds and animals and reptiles. They exchanged the Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another.truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator - who is forever praised. Amen. ... Although they knew God's righteous decree that those who do such things deserve death, they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them." Romans 1:18-25, 32

God will give to each person according to what he has done. To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. Rom. 2:6-8

"Then He will say to those on His left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the age-lasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels." Matt. 25:41
>>This is the Great White Throne Judgment when Jesus condemns them - "away from me you who are cursed", does not sound like, go away and get yourself refined in the fire and then I'll see ya later!
The wages of sin is death, it's a curse. It is final!
 
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Der Alte

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Well, again, you just claim you didn't commit the fallacy even though it's right there. You accused me of the 'I'm right and your wrong' argument and you just did that here.
You will have to do better than that. Show me exactly what I said that you think is a logical fallacy. If you can't do that, as Bob Dylan said "Your answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.
 
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Butch5

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You will have to do better than that. Show me exactly what I said that you think is a logical fallacy. If you can't do that, as Bob Dylan said "Your answer my friend is blowing in the wind, the answer is blowing in the wind.
I did show you the fallacy. I explained it for you. Why is it that you simply refuse to acknowledge anything that disagrees with you?
 
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Butch5

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I gave evidence. you have given nothing.



I have given it time and again but you are blind to it. Read my two death post again.





It does have bearing because things physically died before Adam ate from the tree.

And you have given no evidence, your opinion that Adam going to dust outside of the garden is a physical death is not evidence, it is just your opinion



And this is why you do not understand the second law of thermodynamics and make science and scripture war against each other. It is people who believe like you that is turning so many people away from scripture and turning them into atheists. Scripture then becomes a laughing stock.

You need to wake up, scripture and science will work hand in hand if understood properly.

What is ironic is you used a day with the Lord is as a thousand years argument when it concerned Adams dying, but yet believe God created the whole cosmos in 6 literal 24 hour days.



It is not a metaphor, Paul died daily to himself. You said you believe we will receive a spiritual body, yet maintain that the spiritual body we obtain is nothing more then a metaphor. Sorry you can't have it both ways.

They are NOT different. I suppose you believe that there was a literal tree of knowledge and a literal tree of life also. In effect you are saying the shadow represents reality instead of looking at that which is the reality to explain the shadow. You are not alone,many look at the shadow as the reality just as you do, thus everything becomes convoluted.

Ok, since you refuse to define spiritual there's really not much that can be said. One can't argue against what one doesn't know. You're clearly in conflict with Scripture. Paul said death entered through Adam, you said it was in the world before Adam.

You also said, "It is not a metaphor, Paul died daily to himself." I'm at a loss here. Do you know what a metaphor is? Paul dying daily to himself is a metaphor. He obviously didn't die literally, that makes it a metaphor.

You also said, "You said you believe we will receive a spiritual body, yet maintain that the spiritual body we obtain is nothing more then a metaphor. Sorry you can't have it both ways." Well, if you understand what spiritual means, you wouldn't have said this. You don't have to take my word for it. You can look in a lexicon and see that spirit is a figurative use of the word pneuma. So when you see the word spirit it's either figurative or the translators made a mistake in their translation. But, again, since you won't define spiritual I don't even know what you mean by a spiritual body.
 
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Der Alte

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I did show you the fallacy. I explained it for you. Why is it that you simply refuse to acknowledge anything that disagrees with you?
The only thing you did was say I used aion to prove aion means eternity or words to that affect. I did not! Actually you are the one doing the ignoring. I have posted around 30 scripture which you have not addressed. You just keep repeating your one proof text over and over like some kind of magical mantra.
 
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Butch5

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The only thing you did was say I used aion to prove aion means eternity or words to that affect. I did not! Actually you are the one doing the ignoring. I have posted around 30 scripture which you have not addressed. You just keep repeating your one proof text over and over like some kind of magical mantra.

You realize other people read these right? I mean others can see the explanation of the fallacy. They can see what I said about aion. They can see that I took you passage and showed that aion can't mean eternal. I'm just amazed that you keep on denying what is plain.
 
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Der Alte

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You realize other people read these right? I mean others can see the explanation of the fallacy. They can see what I said about aion. They can see that I took you passage and showed that aion can't mean eternal. I'm just amazed that you keep on denying what is plain.
.....You can't even keep your own argument straight. You allegedly showing me that "aion can't mean eternal" is not showing me I used a logical fallacy. And as I have shown your proof text does not say what you insist it does.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
(1 Corinthians 15:24-25 KJV)
Please show me where Paul says that the reign of Jesus ends?
Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
In this verse the angel of God says Jesus shall the reign over the house of Jacob forever and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
.....The word translated "reign" is the verb βασιλευσει/basileusei.

The angel says the "reign" is "aionas"
And the angel says "of the kingdom there shall be no end." The word translated "kingdom" is the noun "βασιλειας/basileias. "Reign" and "kingdom" have the same root word.

“Aionas” by definition here means eternal.

Revelation 22:3-5
(3) No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
(4) They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
(5) There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they [God and the Lamb vs. 3] will reign for ever and ever.
This passage says the Lamb and God will reign for ever and ever. Unless you want to argue that εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων/eis tous aiōnas tōn aiōnōn only means "unto the ages of the ages" and God does not reign for ever and ever.
 
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Butch5

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.....You can't even keep your own argument straight. You allegedly showing me that "aion can't mean eternal" is not showing me I used a logical fallacy. And as I have shown your proof text does not say what you insist it does.
24 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
25 For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet.
(1 Corinthians 15:24-25 KJV)
Please show me where Paul says that the reign of Jesus ends?
Luke 1:33
(33) And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.
In this verse the angel of God says Jesus shall the reign over the house of Jacob forever and of His kingdom there shall be no end.
.....The word translated "reign" is the verb βασιλευσει/basileusei.

The angel says the "reign" is "aionas"
And the angel says "of the kingdom there shall be no end." The word translated "kingdom" is the noun "βασιλειας/basileias. "Reign" and "kingdom" have the same root word.

“Aionas” by definition here means eternal.

Revelation 22:3-5
(3) No longer will there be any curse. The throne of God and of the Lamb will be in the city, and his servants will serve him.
(4) They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
(5) There will be no more night. They will not need the light of a lamp or the light of the sun, for the Lord God will give them light. And they [God and the Lamb vs. 3] will reign for ever and ever.
This passage says the Lamb and God will reign for ever and ever. Unless you want argue that εις τους αιωνας των αιωνων/eis tous aiōnas tōn aiōnōn only means "unto the ages of the ages" and God does not reign for ever and ever.

Wow, you really don't understand, do you?
 
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Der Alte

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Wow, you really don't understand, do you?
Oh I understand perfectly. You were throwing around terms that you don't know what they mean, "fallacy,""circular reasoning" etc. and when pressed to explain you just keep repeating "I explained it already." DA-1, B5-0
 
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Butch5

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Oh I understand perfectly. You were throwing around terms that you don't know what they mean, "fallacy,""circular reasoning" etc. and when pressed to explain you just keep repeating "I explained it already." DA-1, B5-0
This is funny, you think it's a competition. That explains everything. Now I know why (as if I didn't already) you refuse to acknowledge anyone else's evidence. It's simply a matter that you must win at all costs.

You see, I don't have to explain the fallacies again. Those who read the post and know the fallacies will clearly see them.
 
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Pneuma3

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Ok, since you refuse to define spiritual there's really not much that can be said. One can't argue against what one doesn't know. You're clearly in conflict with Scripture. Paul said death entered through Adam, you said it was in the world before Adam.

No I am not in conflict with Paul, I am in conflict with your understanding that the death Adam brought into the world was a physical death. what you fail to realize is that the DEATH Paul was speaking about was the LAW.

Now that it is the law can be seen in that a physical death was already in creation,remember the dinos, they all died out long before Adam ate from the tree.

And I have define spiritual, you just can't understand the definition I gave in my post on the two deaths.

How about this, spiritual is not natural.

You also said, "It is not a metaphor, Paul died daily to himself." I'm at a loss here. Do you know what a metaphor is? Paul dying daily to himself is a metaphor. He obviously didn't die literally, that makes it a metaphor.

If one dies daily to self and it is just a metaphor does the self actually die?

You also said, "You said you believe we will receive a spiritual body, yet maintain that the spiritual body we obtain is nothing more then a metaphor. Sorry you can't have it both ways." Well, if you understand what spiritual means, you wouldn't have said this. You don't have to take my word for it. You can look in a lexicon and see that spirit is a figurative use of the word pneuma. So when you see the word spirit it's either figurative or the translators made a mistake in their translation. But, again, since you won't define spiritual I don't even know what you mean by a spiritual body.

So God who is spirit is just a metaphor then according to you. Oh good grief. I suppose God is love is just a metaphor also.

Do you worship a metaphor or a God who is spirit and love?
 
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This is funny, you think it's a competition. That explains everything. Now I know why (as if I didn't already) you refuse to acknowledge anyone else's evidence. It's simply a matter that you must win at all costs.You see, I don't have to explain the fallacies again. Those who read the post and know the fallacies will clearly see them.
You have no argument. You have no evidence. You just endlessly repeat the teachings of whatever heterodox religious group you associate with.
 
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No I am not in conflict with Paul, I am in conflict with your understanding that the death Adam brought into the world was a physical death. what you fail to realize is that the DEATH Paul was speaking about was the LAW.

Do you realize that death is the cessation of life and the law is a set or rules or commandments. They are two different things. Can you explain how a set of commandments are the cessation of life?

Now that it is the law can be seen in that a physical death was already in creation,remember the dinos, they all died out long before Adam ate from the tree.
Above you said that death is the law. How did dinosaurs die before Adam broke the command not to eat from the tree.

But, still again, you're in conflict with the Scriptures. God told Adam that the death he would die was returning to dust. He didn't say it was the law. So, we have God Himself telling Adam what that death was.

And I have define spiritual, you just can't understand the definition I gave in my post on the two deaths.

The post doesn't make sense. In it you're conflating different ideas. You're continued refusal to simply give us a definition suggests that you don't have one or don't have an argument.

How about this, spiritual is not natural.

I didn't ask what spiritual isn't, I asked what it is.



If one dies daily to self and it is just a metaphor does the self actually die?

Please explain something. How does one die to self and it not be a metaphor?



So God who is spirit is just a metaphor then according to you. Oh good grief. I suppose God is love is just a metaphor also.

Do you worship a metaphor or a God who is spirit and love?

No God isn't a metaphor, that he is spirit and love is. Here's a dictionary definition of love, "an intense feeling of deep affection" So love is a feeling. Is God literally a feeling that one gets? Do Christians worship a feeling? Do you worship a feeling or the all supreme being? Note the word being. A feeling isn't a being.
 
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FineLinen

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The Flood destroyed all the wicked > the world except the 8 who survived were not reconciled to God, they were not given a second chance.

Dear Ronald: This is not a heavenly lottery! There is no chance! There is no first, second or third chance. Zero, nada.

The entire purpose of Abba is not in the realm of chance, but rather in His own mind and heart.

"It is in Him, and through the shedding of His blood, that we have our deliverance--the forgiveness of our offences--so abundant was God's grace, the grace which He, the possessor of all wisdom and understanding, lavished upon us, when He made known to us the secret of His will. And this is in harmony with God's merciful purpose for the government of the world when the times are ripe for it--the purpose which He has cherished in His own mind of restoring the whole creation to find its one Head in Christ; yes, things in Heaven and things on earth, to find their one Head in Him. And you..."
 
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FineLinen

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The Flood destroyed all the wicked > the world except the 8 who survived were not reconciled to God, they were not given a second chance.


Dear Ronald:

"For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison; Which were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was in preparation, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water...Who shall give account to him that is ready to judge the quick and the dead. For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh, but live according to God in the spirit."
 
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Do you realize that death is the cessation of life and the law is a set or rules or commandments. They are two different things. Can you explain how a set of commandments are the cessation of life?

Yes death is the cessation of life. When we die to self/the old man nature does self/old man nature die or does it continue to live?

The law works the wrath of God, it is spiritual, it is a ministration of death and it is a schoolmaster that leads us to Christ. These concepts seem to be beyond you.

Above you said that death is the law. How did dinosaurs die before Adam broke the command not to eat from the tree.

But, still again, you're in conflict with the Scriptures. God told Adam that the death he would die was returning to dust. He didn't say it was the law. So, we have God Himself telling Adam what that death was.

Are you being deliberately obtuse or do you yet not understand? The death spoken of is spiritual not physical. a physical death was around a long time before Adam ate as can be seen by the dino's

YOU are the one who has to deal with that issue as you are the one that says a physical death did not enter into the world until Adam ate from the tree.

And I already explained the dust scenario to you.

The post doesn't make sense. In it you're conflating different ideas. You're continued refusal to simply give us a definition suggests that you don't have one or don't have an argument.

Answer given in more then one way which tells me that which is spiritual is beyond you, you simply have no concept of spiritual things.

I didn't ask what spiritual isn't, I asked what it is.

That was another attempt, said a different way to show what spiritual is.
Example: you have before you a red and black tile, I hold up the red tile and say this is not black what does that tell you?

Please explain something. How does one die to self and it not be a metaphor?

Do you really not understand how one dies to self? Do you really believe all these things are just metaphors? If so Christ cannot manifest himself in you, for to show more of Him is to have less of YOU.

No God isn't a metaphor, that he is spirit and love is. Here's a dictionary definition of love, "an intense feeling of deep affection" So love is a feeling. Is God literally a feeling that one gets? Do Christians worship a feeling? Do you worship a feeling or the all supreme being? Note the word being. A feeling isn't a being.

Yet you maintain a spirit is only a metaphor, thus you regulate God to nothing more then a metaphor.
Thus you have backed yourself into a corner and your rant above wont get you out of it.

God is NOT a metaphor, does not matter how much you seemingly want Him to be.
 
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