Question about eternal damnation

[Faith Unites]

What is ECT? Not familiar with the abbreviation

 

[Pneuma3]

What is ECT? Not familiar with the abbreviation

eternal conscious torment

 

[Faith Unites]

Dear Faith: "Most" evidently decided to follow Jesus. I have no idea what drew you to the Lord Jesus Christ. For old F.L. it was a deep hole nothing but nothing could fill. Not one nano second has gone by in over 60 years His grasp has failed in one iota!

I'm not sure where youre getting the numbers but most of Jesus's "followers" left him. Now we will both agree that they were not true followers, but thats kind of my point.

 

[Pneuma3]

I'm not sure where youre getting the numbers but most of Jesus's "followers" left him. Now we will both agree that they were not true followers, but thats kind of my point.

Did Peter not leave him also, even denying that he was one of HIS. does that then mean Peter was not a true follower?

 

[Pneuma3]

I'm not sure where youre getting the numbers but most of Jesus's "followers" left him. Now we will both agree that they were not true followers, but thats kind of my point.

Did Peter not leave him also, even denying that he was one of HIS. does that then mean Peter was not a true follower?

What about Thomas who refused to believe until he saw?

 

[Faith Unites]

eternal conscious torment

Gotcha. Well IMO hell is a place where God does not reside. I dunno about eternal torment or annihilation but hell IMO is simply the antigod. God can not be who he is not and so in the end free will may get you to the place where he is not. Hey I hope universalism is true, but I think you really have to stretch the Gospels to get to that conclusion. Better to not worry about things outside of our control and just let Christ love the people around us through us.

 

[Faith Unites]

Did Peter not leave him also, even denying that he was one of HIS. does that then mean Peter was not a true follower?

He denied him out of fear but he came back to being a follower in this life after the resurrection. The resurrection changes everything.

 

[BNR32FAN]

So saying that do you guys believe that when people come to see how much the Father loves them that people will still not want a relationship with him?

I can’t testify as to what other people will do or choose. Speculation is irrelevant.

Do you believe Gods cannot change the most stubborn persons will by showing them His unending love?

I believe God can do anything He wants but the fact is not everyone will enter heaven.

“And every one who shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬

Since we know for a fact according to the scriptures that:

A) God wants everyone to repent and be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 2 Peter 3:9

B) Not everyone will be saved according to Luke 12:10 and Matthew 7:21

It is apparent that God has put the choice in our hands. He has given us the ability to be victorious over the world and to endure but we must choose to exercise this ability.

and Faith in the end it is not up to man, salvation is all Gods doing and the whole of humanity has been bought with a price and we are not our own. Jesus Christ died for the world not just some in the world.

Jesus died so that everyone may be saved. He has made the gift of grace available for everyone but only those who choose to receive it will have eternal life.

 

[Pneuma3]

Gotcha. Well IMO hell is a place where God does not reside. I dunno about eternal torment or annihilation but hell IMO is simply the antigod. God can not be who he is not and so in the end free will may get you to the place where he is not. Hey I hope universalism is true, but I think you really have to stretch the Gospels to get to that conclusion. Better to not worry about things outside of our control and just let Christ love the people around us through us.

If God is omnipresent how can there be a place where he is not?

many seem to think that universalism is stretching the scriptures yet if properly understood it is the only thing that lines up with what we are commanded to teach, which as Paul says is, Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.

Faith that IS the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel unto ALL MEN.

 

[Faith Unites]

What about Thomas who refused to believe until he saw?

But he saw and did believe. Did Jesus not say that is was great to see and believe but even greater for those who do not see yet still believe? I dunno if that means I can just wait till I die to accept him or not but if Jesus came to bring the dead to life and then I die without ever getting to know him then I am still dead. How can a dead person make it into God presence for eternity. Biblically speaking, good people don't go to heaven, alive people do. The idea that you can do good outside of a relationship with Christ is blasphemous really, filthy rags as they say. God is that which is good and is anywhere goodness is, but without that relationship then you are just working in vein because you are attempting to fly solo. IE playing god

 

[Pneuma3]

I can’t testify as to what other people will do or choose. Speculation is irrelevant.

Yes speculation is irrelevant so its a good thing we do not have to speculate as the scripture proclaim that every knee shall bow in reverential worship and every tongue confess in joyous praise that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father.

I believe God can do anything He wants but the fact is not everyone will enter heaven.

“And every one who shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Spirit it shall not be forgiven.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭12:10‬

Since we know for a fact according to the scriptures that:

A) God wants everyone to repent and be saved. 1 Timothy 2:3-4 2 Peter 3:9

B) Not everyone will be saved according to Luke 12:10 and Matthew 7:21

It is apparent that God has put the choice in our hands. He has given us the ability to be victorious over the world and to endure but we must choose to exercise this ability.

Well if you believe God can do everything He wants and He wants to save the world why do you then believe He can't?

There are NO scriptures that state not everyone will be saved. Read those same scriptures in Youngs literal or Rotherham emphisied for a different understanding of them, because what you are saying is both Paul and John were mistaken to say Jesus Christ IS the saviour of ALL MEN/WORLD.

Jesus died so that everyone may be saved. He has made the gift of grace available for everyone but only those who choose to receive it will have eternal life.

Your changing the scriptures to suite your doctrine for the scripture is plain Jesus Christ IS the saviour of the world.

 

[Faith Unites]

If God is omnipresent how can there be a place where he is not?

many seem to think that universalism is stretching the scriptures yet if properly understood it is the only thing that lines up with what we are commanded to teach, which as Paul says is, Jesus Christ is the saviour of ALL MEN.

Faith that IS the GOOD NEWS of the Gospel unto ALL MEN.

Jesus is absolutely the savior of all men, but that doesnt mean all men will be saved. Jesus is the gate. God is not omnipresent in the sense that he is in everything. Where good is there God is. Did he not turn his back on Christ on the cross? Christ was sin dying and God could not be there with him. Jesus was literally sin on the cross. God can not reside in sin. Hell is nothing more than the self actualization of sin. God can not be there. But but but, maybe part of him is and that is a price he paid for our salvation. Maybe his death literally cost him a piece of his God nature. I do not know.

 

[FineLinen]

Gotcha. Well IMO hell is a place where God does not reside.

Follow the bouncing ball Faith. "If I make my bed in hell, You are there."

The most powerful word for all is not pas (the radical all).

The super radical all is the all. The ta panta.

From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends...

 

[Pneuma3]

But he saw and did believe. Did Jesus not say that is was great to see and believe but even greater for those who do not see yet still believe? I dunno if that means I can just wait till I die to accept him or not but if Jesus came to bring the dead to life and then I die without ever getting to know him then I am still dead. How can a dead person make it into God presence for eternity. Biblically speaking, good people don't go to heaven, alive people do. The idea that you can do good outside of a relationship with Christ is blasphemous really, filthy rags as they say. God is that which is good and is anywhere goodness is, but without that relationship then you are just working in vein because you are attempting to fly solo. IE playing god

Yes Thomas saw and then believed so you can't say those who stop following Jesus are not true followers of Jesus, it just means that sometimes the cares of this world choke out the word for a time.

Yes alive people enter into the kingdom of heaven, but don't forget Jesus is the Resurrection. And one is dead until the resurrection or said another way one is dead until Christ is manifested in their life.

 

[Pneuma3]

He denied him out of fear but he came back to being a follower in this life after the resurrection. The resurrection changes everything.

same answer I gave to the Thomas quote. Sometimes the cover of the book does not match up with the pages inside the book.

 

[Faith Unites]

Yes Thomas saw and then believed so you can't say those who stop following Jesus are not true followers of Jesus, it just means that sometimes the cares of this world choke out the word for a time.

Yes alive people enter into the kingdom of heaven, but don't forget Jesus is the Resurrection. And one is dead until the resurrection or said another way one is dead until Christ is manifested in their life.

I would argue that none of the disciples were true followers until the resurrection. I do not know if you can come to Christ after death, but it sort of eliminates the need for him in my life if I can just do it after death. IF you dont have the death of self in this life then you are simply playing God your entire life. "Hey God nice to meet you, I am also god. Hey little god come on in, we've got smores"

 

[Faith Unites]

Follow the bouncing ball Faith. "If I make my bed in hell, You are there."

The most powerful word for all is not pas (the radical all).

The super radical all is the all. The ta panta.

From Him the all comes, through Him the all exists, and in Him the all ends...

don't even know where you're going here tbh

 

[FineLinen]

don't even know where you're going here tbh

Dear Faith: Try and spend a few moments in contemplation. Perhaps then you will grasp were I am going. No: where the Word of the Lord is going !

 

[Faith Unites]

Dear Faith: Try and spend a few moments in contemplation. Perhaps then you will grasp were I am going.

Ok, well im done conversating about universalism. Its not biblical and its quite dangerous to spread. Keep the focus on Christ and let him be the judge. Who cares about the rest

 

[yaacotd]

The KJV says that, "death and hell," but a better rendering is "death and the grave." Hell is so confusing - many Christians will tell you that the Lake of Fire is Hell (though the Bible does not so ID it) and then tell you a few breaths later that death and hell will be thrown into it. Crazy.

Crazy is when you think
God is not going to do anything about it
when you sin.