Question About EO Mariology

[Noscentia]

So I just wanted to confirm something I recently read from the following link: The Doctrine of the Orthodox Church: The Basic Doctrines

It reads:

"Similarly, the liturgy consistently addresses the Virgin Mary as Theotokos (the "one who gave birth to God"), and this term, formally admitted as a criterion of orthodoxy at Ephesus, is actually the only "Mariological" (doctrine of Mary) dogma accepted in the Orthodox Church. It reflects the doctrine of Christ's unique divine Person, and Mary is thus venerated only because she is his mother "according to the flesh.""

So if I'm reading this correctly it says that the only dogma (required belief) about Mary in the Eastern Orthodox church is that she is the Theotokos (God-bearer)? Is that correct?

Thank you for your time. Blessings.

 

[Not David]

Also her eternal virginity.

 

[HTacianas]

So I just wanted to confirm something I recently read from the following link: The Doctrine of the Orthodox Church: The Basic Doctrines

It reads:


So if I'm reading this correctly it says that the only dogma (required belief) about Mary in the Eastern Orthodox church is that she is the Theotokos (God-bearer)? Is that correct?

Thank you for your time. Blessings.

That is generally true, but others might disagree. The Eastern Churches do not make dogmatic decrees in the manner of the Western Church, such as the Immaculate Conception, etc. Note that the Nicene Creed says of Jesus that he is "the only-begotten Son of God, ... very God of very God" and that he "was incarnate by the Holy Ghost and of the Virgin Mary, and was made man".

The Nicene Creed is a dogmatic statement of belief of the Orthodox Churches. It is also a belief that she remained a virgin after the birth of Christ and had no further children. Here a detail, there a detail, I'm sure others will have very valid things to say also.

 

[~Anastasia~]

Just watching the thread. We hear repeatedly that she is Theotokos, and ever-virgin. I'd say that's as far as "dogma" goes, though as others say, I don't think we have such hard-line divisions on classes of beliefs.

We also believe, for example, that she died before being taken into heaven.

It would be difficult to be Orthodox if anyone thought that perhaps she "wasn't saved" or had any idea that she was somehow actually divine. I think we might say that certain beliefs such as these are prohibited, but those "fences" could be what some might regard as dogma?

 

[ArmyMatt]

yes, but there is a lot that goes with her being the Mother of God.

 

[Noscentia]

I feel as though I'm getting some mixed messages here so I'll try to explain myself better. I recognize that there are some things such as the Divinity of Christ or the Trinity which are not up for debate. Such things are typically considered dogma, and, for example, if someone within the Orthodox Church did not affirm both of these dogmas, they would likely not be recognized as Orthodox.

The website I mentioned is a pro-Orthodox resource, so it would seem a bit strange to me that they would state that the only dogma (something that must be believed) is the belief that Mary is the Theotokos. While I know there are certain things such as the perpetual virginity or that she never committed any type of sin which are culturally popular or widely accepted, I would like to know if they are truly dogmas (must be believed) like the Trinity, Mary being the Theotokos, and that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.

The same website I referenced in the OP also states this, “What is particularly characteristic of this attitude toward the faith is the absence of any great concern for establishing external criteria of truth—a concern that has dominated Western Christian thought since the Middle Ages.” and “Because of this view of truth, the Orthodox have traditionally been reluctant to involve church authority in defining matters of faith with too much precision and detail.” So if answering in a clear and concrete way (like might be common in Western Christianity) is impossible, I will accept whatever you can offer.

 

[Mea Culpa]

Reading this thread with interest. I am wanting to learn and grow. I have a heart for Orthodoxy but am not sure about something’s.

With all respect, and coming from a Catholic background, where does Mary’s eternal virginity come from? Is there verses that support this or does it come from church teaching?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I feel as though I'm getting some mixed messages here so I'll try to explain myself better. I recognize that there are some things such as the Divinity of Christ or the Trinity which are not up for debate. Such things are typically considered dogma, and, for example, if someone within the Orthodox Church did not affirm both of these dogmas, they would likely not be recognized as Orthodox.

The website I mentioned is a pro-Orthodox resource, so it would seem a bit strange to me that they would state that the only dogma (something that must be believed) is the belief that Mary is the Theotokos. While I know there are certain things such as the perpetual virginity or that she never committed any type of sin which are culturally popular or widely accepted, I would like to know if they are truly dogmas (must be believed) like the Trinity, Mary being the Theotokos, and that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.

The same website I referenced in the OP also states this, “What is particularly characteristic of this attitude toward the faith is the absence of any great concern for establishing external criteria of truth—a concern that has dominated Western Christian thought since the Middle Ages.” and “Because of this view of truth, the Orthodox have traditionally been reluctant to involve church authority in defining matters of faith with too much precision and detail.” So if answering in a clear and concrete way (like might be common in Western Christianity) is impossible, I will accept whatever you can offer.

yes, that is the only dogma. however, there is a lot in that seemingly simple statement. just like saying the dogma that God is Trinity and God is Incarnate seem simple, but there is A LOT in there that you need to unpack.

 

[prodromos]

If it is in the Liturgy, it is the belief of the Orthodox Church and any member of the Church should be willing to submit themselves to that belief eventually.

 

[Silverback]

yes, that is the only dogma. however, there is a lot in that seemingly simple statement. just like saying the dogma that God is Trinity and God is Incarnate seem simple, but there is A LOT in there that you need to unpack.

I know this is an Orthodox thread.
As you may expect, Lutherans, like most Protestant faiths do not give the Virgin much credit, which I always thought was strange since God called her "highly favored" and the scriptures say that "all generations shall call me blessed" Additionally, if you have a Trinitarian belief, then the term "Theotokos" should not be a problem either.

The current Lutheran view is different than what Martin Luther believed, at least in the early days of the reformation.

I have heard many Protestants say things about Mary that most people would not take lightly to if the same things were said about there mother.

You can't say you love the lord, and disrespect his Mum...just say'n.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I know this is an Orthodox thread.
As you may expect, Lutherans, like most Protestant faiths do not give the Virgin much credit, which I always thought was strange since God called her "highly favored" and the scriptures say that "all generations shall call me blessed" Additionally, if you have a Trinitarian belief, then the term "Theotokos" should not be a problem either.

The current Lutheran view is different than what Martin Luther believed, at least in the early days of the reformation.

I have heard many Protestants say things about Mary that most people would not take lightly to if the same things were said about there mother.

You can't say you love the lord, and disrespect his mother...just say'n.

agreed.

 

[FireDragon76]

I feel as though I'm getting some mixed messages here so I'll try to explain myself better. I recognize that there are some things such as the Divinity of Christ or the Trinity which are not up for debate. Such things are typically considered dogma, and, for example, if someone within the Orthodox Church did not affirm both of these dogmas, they would likely not be recognized as Orthodox.

The website I mentioned is a pro-Orthodox resource, so it would seem a bit strange to me that they would state that the only dogma (something that must be believed) is the belief that Mary is the Theotokos. While I know there are certain things such as the perpetual virginity or that she never committed any type of sin which are culturally popular or widely accepted, I would like to know if they are truly dogmas (must be believed) like the Trinity, Mary being the Theotokos, and that Jesus is 100% God and 100% man.

The same website I referenced in the OP also states this, “What is particularly characteristic of this attitude toward the faith is the absence of any great concern for establishing external criteria of truth—a concern that has dominated Western Christian thought since the Middle Ages.” and “Because of this view of truth, the Orthodox have traditionally been reluctant to involve church authority in defining matters of faith with too much precision and detail.” So if answering in a clear and concrete way (like might be common in Western Christianity) is impossible, I will accept whatever you can offer.

That's true. I don't believe Orthodox have a formal list of dogmas, for instance. It's something that they haven't given as much thought as western Christians- they have either not needed to, or they've been busy with other things.