Question about circumcision

etZion

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Acts 15.5:
"But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses."

Acts 15.24: "we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment".

You forgot the verse that provides the context to the verses you posted;

Acts 15:1
Some men came down from Judea and began teaching the brethren, “Unless you are circumcised according to the custom of Moses, you cannot be saved.”

Let me know if you want to deal with anything I wrote, or if you would like to understand the context of Acts 15... :thumbsup:
 
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visionary

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Clearly it used to be part of the old economy: Philippians 3.5.

But it's not part of the new economy, under grace.
What I am getting at is the fact that the "seat of Moses" is where this particular "law of Moses" comes from not Mount Sinai.
 
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visionary

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bas620.jpg

This is the oldest known illustration depicting circumcision, around 2400 BC relief found in an ancient Egyptian tomb.
 
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Dave-W

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Hi everyone!

Excuse me for I am new to the faith, but I have a few questions and was hoping to clear some things up for my understanding.

I understand that the Gentile converts were to learn Torah gradually, and not have it forced on them at once. That said, was it expected of the Gentile converts to eventually become circumcised, after declaring their faith in the Messiah? Paul speaks about not becoming circumcised, but is he only dealing with the conversion rituals of the Pharisees, or never becoming circumcised?

Yeshua said that not one jot or tittle of the law shall disappear, so I want to make sure I get a consistent understanding of what Paul is saying; keeping in mind 2 Peter 3:15-16.

Not one jot or tittle is correct. However, unless you actually live in the Jewish community, the laws and statutes of Moses does not apply to you. That includes circumcision. Please note what James said to Paul:

Acts 21.21 and they have been told about you, that you are teaching all the Jews who are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, telling them not to circumcise their children nor to walk according to the customs.
22 What, then, is to be done? They will certainly hear that you have come.
23 Therefore do this that we tell you. We have four men who are under a vow;
24 take them and purify yourself along with them, and pay their expenses so that they may shave their heads; and all will know that there is nothing to the things which they have been told about you, but that you yourself also walk orderly, keeping the Law.
25 But concerning the Gentiles who have believed, we wrote, having decided that they should abstain from meat sacrificed to idols and from blood and from what is strangled and from fornication.”

So what was James saying? Jews continue to follow Moses in the New Covenant and Gentiles do not have to.

Paul goes on to say this:

1 Corinthians 7:18 Was any man called when he was already circumcised? He is not to become uncircumcised. Has anyone been called in uncircumcision? He is not to be circumcised.

That seems pretty clear to me.

The only case recorded where Paul circumcised someone was Timothy - who was Jewish by his mother. Titus (with them at the same time) he did NOT circumcise.

Galatians 2:3 But even Titus, who was with me, was not forced to be circumcised, though he was a Greek.
 
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Dave-W

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This is the oldest known illustration depicting circumcision, around 2400 BC relief found in an ancient Egyptian tomb.

Interesting pic.

How did you find it?
 
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Lulav

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Luke states that many came from many lands and these pilgrims came up to the House of God, the Temple, in Jerusalem. They were "Jews and (Gentile) converts to Judaism." (Acts 2:8 - 11) Were these converts circumcised? I think so.

I think that should answer the question, you didn't get admittance to the Temple without being circumcised.
 
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Lulav

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bas620.jpg

This is the oldest known illustration depicting circumcision, around 2400 BC relief found in an ancient Egyptian tomb.
I was curious about what the hieroglyphics said and found this:

This is from a tomb from the sixth dynasty (Moses time was around the 18th dynasty)

The writings appear to say:


“Hold it, quickly, don’t let it fall”
he answers
“I’ll do as you want”.
On the right, instead, the patient says:
“Rub it well, to make it efficacious”
and the operator answers:
“I’ll make it painless, pleasant”.


It appears that this was a priestly rite being performed. It is interesting the difference in who is being circumcised and who is doing it. Also that the one on the left is being done by two men, one performing it and another holding the man's hands above his head.

The one on the right only has the 'mohel'.
 
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